Almost cycled, ammonia won’t go down

[bbryant573]

In that case, please do not acquire any fish. This is a scientific hobby, and the rules of chemistry and biology govern everything that occurs in the aquarium. Everything we do affects these natural processes, and the fish are affected positively or negatively , depending. Knowing the parameters of the source water is necessary in order to know which fish will or won't manage to live in that water.

There is nothing wrong in using fish food even though it is not the normal way. I don't know where the ammonia is coming from, and you haven't given the level from your tests. Nitrites at zero are good, and some nitrate is good though this may be in the source water which you should test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as a matter of course just to know. Water is life to fish, and what is in it matters a great deal.

It’s not suppose to be this hard.. so what if I do test my tap water and find out the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate…. Would that help?

 

[Byron]

It’s not suppose to be this hard.. so what if I do test my tap water and find out the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate…. Would that help?

We all have to work with the water we have. It is thus important to know what these nitrogen readings are. That tells us what if anything is comin in with the water, and if it needs attention or not.

There is not much wrong here, from reading the posts in this thread. We all started out not knowing anything about chemistry and biology (I certain did not know any of this), and through mistakes and successes we do learn, and move forward.

 

[bbryant573]

We all have to work with the water we have. It is thus important to know what these nitrogen readings are. That tells us what if anything is comin in with the water, and if it needs attention or not.

There is not much wrong here, from reading the posts in this thread. We all started out not knowing anything about chemistry and biology (I certain did not know any of this), and through mistakes and successes we do learn, and move forward.

I get that but what do I do from here?

 

[Byron]

As I said, I do not see any real problem here. You have been given some advice that differs, and perhaps that does confuse. But starting with the basics, we need to know the GH, KH and pH of your source water, either from the water authority's website (this is reliable) or tests at stores. Once these are known, we can consider the fish. I mentioned that one oscar would be it in a 4-foot 55g tank (if this is still the intention), but we need to know the "cichlids" for the second tank.

Are you intending live plants, even if just floating plants? This makes a difference as to how you/we deal with cycling and fish.

 

[bbryant573]

So, I tested the 55 gallon tank last night and the ammonia is now 8.0 but nitrites 0 and nitrates 20 are good which I find weird. pH is still 6.0... not that I expected it to change... so I set out a glass of water last night and I am going to test its pH tomorrow night.

I am going to go to Petco tonight and see if they test for KH and GH, I seriously doubt they do but I will ask... if not I think I am going to go ahead and get a test kit for KH and GH -

On a brighter note our 55 gallon bow front tank is almost cycled... BUT pH is 6.6 so its also dropping last time I tested the pH in the bow front was on the 13th of August and it was 7.6... so maybe it is Ochelata water... the only thing we have in that tank is gravel. Ammonia .25, Nitrite is 0 and Nitrate is 80 - so I am going to do a water change on it tonight and see if I can't get that nitrate to come down...

 

[Byron]

I personally would not waste money for a GH/KH test when you will likely only use it once. Unless these parameters are specifically targeted in the aquarium they change very little from what they are in the source water. You really should be able to get this data from your water authority. I did a quick look but there are so many areas in Oklahoma that I've no idea which one serves you. Wherever you pay your water bill is the one you want to check, they likely have a website.

The pH dropping is not at all unusual, depending upon the GH and KH.

I don't understand the ammonia at 8 though...are there fish in this tank?

 

[bbryant573]

I personally would not waste money for a GH/KH test when you will likely only use it once. Unless these parameters are specifically targeted in the aquarium they change very little from what they are in the source water. You really should be able to get this data from your water authority. I did a quick look but there are so many areas in Oklahoma that I've no idea which one serves you. Wherever you pay your water bill is the one you want to check, they likely have a website.

The pH dropping is not at all unusual, depending upon the GH and KH.

I don't understand the ammonia at 8 though...are there fish in this tank?

I have googled everything that I can think of to try to find the KH and GH number from our water…. I can’t find anything …. I do know that we do get our water from Bartlesville.. anyway the test kit is like 11 bucks from chewy…. And since we are going to have more then one tank (2 55, 2 10 gallons and a 40 gallon breeder and most likely will end up with a 75)it might be worth it to have a test kit.

And no the last mollie we had in that tank died…

 

[bbryant573]

I will see if they provide a website on the water bill. Ochelata is a small town..

 

[bbryant573]

So I did a little more on water hardness for where I live... and this is what I found:
I found this website where you put in your zip code...

HOW HARD IS MY WATER?​

Enter your zip code and see if you live in a hard water area with our water hardness tool. Lots of people live in hard water areas without knowing. How hard is your water?

Enter your zip code
Search



The water hardness of Tulsa is 140 PPM
*Disclaimer: The data in this tool comes to provide a general outline of water hardness throughout the USA. Water hardness figures are based on reports from government and private sources. We do not guarantee the water hardness figures are 100% accurate.

 

[bbryant573]

I also found this:

WATER QUALITY IN THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA​

Oklahoma is located in the south-central region of the United States; featuring beautiful hills, lakes, forests and the Great Plains. In Oklahoma, you can find areas that have a classic western look - with red dirt and buffalo roaming the plains, and areas which are more refined - with museums, art galleries, and scenic gardens.

Oklahoma water supply comes from groundwater and surface water. Most of the groundwater in Oklahoma is used for crop irrigation and is also the common source of water for the western half of the state. The majority of the surface water in Oklahoma is used for public consumption.

Fun fact: The state's largest groundwater basin, The Ogallala Aquifer, contains 90 million acre-feet of water, enough to cover the entire state two feet deep!

WATER HARDNESS BY CITY
Oklahoma water is considered hard. The average water hardness for the Oklahoma resident is around 146 PPM. The highest hard water number comes from Lawton at 161 PPM, the city with the softest water is Stillwater with 123 PPM. Oklahoma City water is 154 PPM and is considered hard according to the USGS water hardness page.

 

[Byron]

Some general things to recognize from this data. First, there is no scientifically-controlled meaning to the subjective terms like soft, hard, moderate. This is like using common names for a fish species, it only really makes sense to the person using it because he/she knows what they mean but most of the rest of us do not know what they mean.

For example, it says Oklahoma water is hard. Then it says the average is 146 ppm. This is not by any stretch of the imagination hard water, at least not to an aquarist. A GH of 146ppm is roughly 8 dH, which the hobby generally terms moderately soft. Soft water species will be more comfortable in this water than any true hard water species; this number is generally speaking too low for livebearers, rift lake cichlids, and similar.

This is why we always say, get the numbers, not a term that can be very misleading.

This settles the GH question, giving us an idea of suitable fish. There still remains the pH though, and given that it readily falls from 7.6 to 6 in an aquarium with no fish, I think they are likely adding something to increase the pH. This is worth checking, through the water authority. However, another explanation is that the KH is low, lower than the GH, and this buffering capability is therefore minimal and the pH naturally lowers. Though that usually occurs in an aquarium with fish producing organics.

 

[bbryant573]

Some general things to recognize from this data. First, there is no scientifically-controlled meaning to the subjective terms like soft, hard, moderate. This is like using common names for a fish species, it only really makes sense to the person using it because he/she knows what they mean but most of the rest of us do not know what they mean.

For example, it says Oklahoma water is hard. Then it says the average is 146 ppm. This is not by any stretch of the imagination hard water, at least not to an aquarist. A GH of 146ppm is roughly 8 dH, which the hobby generally terms moderately soft. Soft water species will be more comfortable in this water than any true hard water species; this number is generally speaking too low for livebearers, rift lake cichlids, and similar.

This is why we always say, get the numbers, not a term that can be very misleading.

This settles the GH question, giving us an idea of suitable fish. There still remains the pH though, and given that it readily falls from 7.6 to 6 in an aquarium with no fish, I think they are likely adding something to increase the pH. This is worth checking, through the water authority. However, another explanation is that the KH is low, lower than the GH, and this buffering capability is therefore minimal and the pH naturally lowers. Though that usually occurs in an aquarium with fish producing organics.

Well I tried….
Could lava rocks be bringing the pH down? I am still thinking that it’s the water, but since I can’t find any valuable information on how soft or hard the water is I am going to buy the test kit for GH and KH….

I think I am going to do a 50% water change, and a friend of mine is going to give me some of her filter media and some guppies…. See if that will kick start the damn tank.

I am so done messing with it…. Ammonia is still 8.0

 

[Byron]

Could lava rocks be bringing the pH down?

No. No rock softens water or lowers pH. Some are calcareous and increase GH/KH/pH, and if memory serves me lava may do this but I would not use it just for this. Lava rock is rough, and this can be trouble for some fish. Get the API GH/KH liquid test kit, or another reputable, it cannot hurt to pin these numbers down.

a friend of mine is going to give me some of her filter media and some guppies…. See if that will kick start the damn tank.

I do not recommend this. Introducing pathogens from another tank is never a good idea. I know aquarists who will not even transfer wet objects from one of their own tanks to another of their own tanks. I have never gone that far, but certainly I wold never introduce any substances from an aquarium with fish from another source, the risk is too great. We quarantine new fish for very good reason. And, there is no need to be "kickstarting" cycling.

What test are you using for ammonia?

Another point...if the pH is and remain 6 (or any level below 7) "ammonia" is largely ammonium which is basically harmless to fish. Plants will gobble this ammonium up rapidly. Get some floating plants, substantial ones like Water Sprite, Water Lettuce, or Frogbit; even Salvinia would help. And also keep in mind that with an acidic pH, "cycling" is a different matter. Let the natural biology play out, it is much safer than attempting to raise this or that, creating more complexity.

 

[sharkweek178]

I have googled everything that I can think of to try to find the KH and GH number from our water…. I can’t find anything …. I do know that we do get our water from Bartlesville.. anyway the test kit is like 11 bucks from chewy…. And since we are going to have more then one tank (2 55, 2 10 gallons and a 40 gallon breeder and most likely will end up with a 75)it might be worth it to have a test kit.

And no the last mollie we had in that tank died…

Maybe you could call the water company.

 

[bbryant573]

Ok - I have heard time and time again that taking filter media from someone else tanks is a good way to get a tank started... this tank is close to being cycled the nitrites and nitrates are good - ready to go but all that's stopping me is the ammonia... and the pH. I would really like to know why the pH is dropping. My b/f said the other day that I should just start completely over with the tank. Drain, throw out all the sand, get rid of the rock clean the tank out and start completely from scratch.. and I almost agree with him.

Oh and the tank has a smell... I kept walking by the tank and kept smelling something, I stuck my nose up to the water and it has a smell to it... I am ready to empty it and start over...