All Sorts Of Algae ..... Journal

[griffgrogg]

QUOTE
Hi,

Ive read youre postings about using flourish to combat bba. I have this in my tank......its 240 litres, I have pressurized CO2. Im wondering how I dose the flourish as the instructions tell me to dose a capful (10ml) once or twice a week. My nitrates and phosphates are both nil, ph 6.8, kh 7, and gh 15.........your advice would be very much appreciated thanks, Terri


Hiya Terri

Thats no problem Terri i will do that a bit later today, i auctually saw your reply to that particular thread but i was too lazy to reply and auctually work out the dosage for you and then after a day or so i forgot about it.

You need Flourish Excel not ordinary flourish, the idea is that you overdose the excel but you must be careful, the fact that you have pressurised co2 is a big help, and if you use the excel and the pressurised co2 together you will eradicate it.

I think there may be other problems in this tank as well just from the figures you have given me above, If you can answer some questions first of all to give me a better idea.........is this tank heavily planted? How long is it setup? How much lighting is over this tank, how many watts? and what type of lighting is it? What is the current fertiliseation regime for this tank, in other words how much and how ofton do you dose ferts, and what are you dosing?

I think thats it, all i can think of right now, when you have answered these questions i may get you to start your own thread in the plant section, just so others can help you as well, as it might take a while to get your tank in order with a proper fertiliseation regime, getting rid of the bba will be relatively straight foreward if you follow the instructions for overdosing but given the fact you have 0 nitrate and phosphate in this tank you are going to run into other algae problems quite quickly and this will have to be solved also.

So i hope thats ok......its just so others can learn as well particularily about the Excel method for bba, as this is very new on this board......but glad to help you out no problem.

Zig,

i have 4 x 38 w lights, daylight, warm white etc. Tap water readings are PO4 3 mg/L and NO3 5 mg/L (anglian water). Ive not used ferts really

) as the plants were doing well and pearling nicely until a few weeks ago and the bba really took hold. This week Ive dosed a couple of times with flourish, readings today are still nil NO3, PO4 is about .25 mg/L. I started to use easybalance about 4 weeks ago and havent done a water change since then.

I have taken a deep breath and posted some photos of 'my' algae, as you can see there are all sorts, my poor 'golden' apple snails are golden no longer.............more like furry moss balls.

what Ive done.......

1. spent some time and removed 95% leaves badly hit with bba
2. got some true sae x 4 on order and arriving tomorrow
3. ordered some excel and dry ferts to start EI
4. Ordered some fast growing plants and floating plants

 

[George Farmer]

Welcome the the Forum Terri!

You have ideal lighting with 2.4 Watts per Gallon and pressurized CO2 so your old fertilising regime (in particular low NO3 and PO4 levels) was definitely the weakest link and primary cause of your algae issues.

But you knew all that already.

Your plan sounds good. Get you water chemistry sorted in accordance with EI principles and plant heavily with fast-growers and I'm sure you have success, eventually.

Personally I would avoid Tetra EasyBalance as this contains high levels of a nitrate absorbing product, known as Nitrate Minus (made by Tetra too.) Water changes are far more effective.

Good to see another journal - your experiences and, hopefully, conquering of your algae will prove very helpful to others and furthur reinforce the principles that (controlled) nitrates and phosphates are the planted tank's friend, not foe.

 

[zig]

mmmm nice algae

Ok do you know how much co2 you are injecting into this tank?

You want to increase the co2 thats the first thing you want to do, its usually low levels of co2 that will cause bba, the minimum co2 for this tank should be 30ppm throughout the photoperiod but in this tank its hard to know if its a combination of lack of ferts in general along with the co2.

You will want to increase the co2 to about 40ppm for the moment this will help to slow the growth of the bba until your order of Excel arrives.

The bad news is the driftwood may not be able to go back in the tank, there are well documented cases of bba coming back into tanks on driftwood that has been removed even for as long as 6 months and left to dry out, the Excel is effective but i dont know how effective, as its only being used relatively recently as an algaeicide against bba.

Also what type of fish does this tank hold? if you have shrimp in this tank you will have to remove them as the OD of Excel will probably kill them, there have been documented cases of this happening very quickly with shrimp usually within a couple of days.

Also the other priorithy with this tank is to increase the nitrates and phosphates so you have a bit of work to do, and a steep learning curve to go through, but it will be worth it, personally i wouldnt have bothered with the SAE the Excel and the increased co2 will sort the problem, and as long as you fertilise correctly thereafter the tank should be fine and hopefully algae a thing of the past.

 

[griffgrogg]

Hi,

yes the algae is fab isnt it still every cloud has a silver lining as I'll enjoy watching it die !!

The CO2 was lower but I have had it at 30 for the last few days, I shall increase it to 40 as you suggest. The tank holds just community fish, tetro, barbs, rasbora, shark, corys and a brittlenose not overstocked -and I dont have shrimp.

One question I have having read through the pinned article abouth IE is :

"If your starting levels of NO3 or PO4 are 0, you should bring the levels up slowly to the required amount - for NO3 you should add 1ppm on day 1, 2ppm on day 2, 3ppm on day 3 and increase the ppm by 1 each day until you have reached the target level of 10ppm, once you reach the target level you just do topups on alternate days to try and maintain it."

If water changes are being done every 7th day and (as I have nil readings for NO3) the advice is to add N slowly by just 1ppm every day to take it up to 10 ppm ...how much do I have to add to the tank after the 50% water change on day 7 ?

Also how do know when you have reached the correct dosage levels for your tank ? ie do you increase the ppm's until the algae is gone and the plants are healthy and stay at that level? I would imagine that every tank is individual...



regards, Terri

 

[zig]

Having the co2 at 40ppm will just slow down the growth of the bba, just watch your fish as well you dont want to over do it on the co2.

The reason i suggest that that you build it up slowly is because if you have 0 nitrates in the tank and you suddenly dosed 10ppm no3 to the tank this would shock the fish and you could possibly have some casulties, if the tank is used to nitrates you can dose higher levels straight away quite safely, by the 7th day you will have brought the tank up to the target level of 10ppm or near enough to that level, you will do your water change "reset" the tank and then you will add 10ppm no3 back in again, once you have reached the target level and the fish get used to higher levels of nitrates you can safely add 10ppm back into the tank in one go.

Origionally when i wrote the article i suggested 10ppm no3 as a good level, but im of the view now that 15ppm is probably a more suitable level especially for a beginner with EI, 10ppm is just a bit closer to 0ppm and you never want to reach 0, 15ppm no3 gives a wider margin for error especially as you get used to dosing and testing etc, having your no3 levels a bit higher also helps combat the possibility of bga another type of algae which you dont want to get aquainted with.

But if you aim for 10ppm in week one getting to 15ppm is not difficult after that, once you get to 15ppm the idea is maintain that level throughout the week before your next water change, your plants will consume no3 and you will test and do topups to maintain the 15ppm level, as you say each tank is different this is why in the beginning we test to find how much the plants consume (they will also be consuming Phosphate as well but at a relatively slower rate than the nitrates, you will test for po4 as well during this time to also find out the consumption rate)

The basic idea is that we never let the nitrate and phosphate levels reach 0, if we maintain an excess of these nutrients in the tank algae should stay at bay and the plants will remain vibrant and healthy.

 

[zig]

Hiya Terri

Me again, these are the instructions on how to overdose the Excel for the bba.

Ok everything when doing this is measured in US gallons, so your tank at 240 litres is approx 63 US gallons, so if we just round that figure up for simplicity with the maths to 60 gallons it makes our calculations a bit easier as you will see below.

I just want to say first of all obviously this is being done at your own risk, im only passing on the information as i understand it, its a relatively new way to treat bba but most who try it have success so i wouldnt unduly worry about it, i just want to add the disclaimer in case something did go wrong but im sure it wont.

Just watch your fish at all times for signs of distress, first signs of distress stop the treatment.

Also when you start to do this routine you just do everything else as normal, when your dry ferts arrive you will start to dose those also, the treatment will last for 14 days, sometimes the bba can clear up within 10 days others have had to go as long as 21 days for the bba to die off, but between 10 to 14 days seems to be the norm for the treatment to be effective.

The first day of the treatment you do a 50% water change and add 5ml Excel for every 10 US gallons = 30ml, the following week you will do another 50% water change and repeat the above, this is going to be the routine with EI as well when you get going on that also each week you will do a 50% water change, so its probably a good idea to pick a day that you will have free each week, using the day each week for the water change is not set in stone by any means we all have to go away at sometime etc but its a good idea to set a routine in the beginning, also you will probably want to start to thinking about about how you are auctually going to do the water changes, its quite a big tank, you will be changeing 120 litres a week, a python might not be a bad idea (a python is an hose type apperatus which makes water changes really easy, you just connect it to the nearest water outlet)

The normal dosage for excel is 1ml for each 10 US gallons per day, so normally you would dose 6 ml per day, but we want to overdose 3x so 3x 6ml = 18ml per day, so the overall dosing routine will look like this.

Day 1- 50% water change add 5ml for each 10 US gallons = 30ml

Each day thereafter add 3 x 6ml = 18ml per day

7 days from day 1 repeat the above 50% water change etc

Dosing routine should normally stop at 14 days

And lastly Flourish Excel seems to be affected by light in some way, so other than the dosing at water change times all other dosages should be given at night after lights off, or as near as possible to normal lights off in the evening (these lights should only be running a max of 10-12 hours anyway, personally i only run mine for 10 hours per day) and thats it really, its pretty straightforward, i would keep the co2 at 40ppm also during this time this will also help.

When you get the dry ferts we can go through more detailed instructions on what to with those, but it would be a good idea to get going with those as soon as possible also.

Thats all for now, so any questions or anything you are not clear about just ask..........k

 

[griffgrogg]

All

thanks for the advice, just waiting for everything to arrive........I shall post again after Ive been on the EI for a while,,

regards, Terri

 

[griffgrogg]

"you will probably want to start to thinking about about how you are auctually going to do the water changes, its quite a big tank, you will be changeing 120 litres a week, a python might not be a bad idea (a python is an hose type apperatus which makes water changes really easy, you just connect it to the nearest water outlet)"


Zig, do you use this to put water into the tank? if so doesnt it shock the fish to put 50% cold water in? and also hwo do you use the dechlorinators with this method? (at the moment I fill up a plastic bin, add the dechlorinators then use a bucket to fill the tank up with)........................also where can you buy these pythons from, it certainly sounds alot easier.

Terri

 

[griffgrogg]

Hi

well Ive been on my new regime for a few days with the excel 'overdosing' and IE using seachem ready mixed (Im lazy - but I will get some dry ferts as I cant copycat some of the posts on this forum unless I do !!) and trying to adjust my pressurised CO2 to 40ppm (was up to 57 yesterday !!)..............the green spot algae I have has all but gone already !! the fish are still fine thankfully .....the bba is not spreading but has not yet turned red, Im (over)dosing regularly with trace.
Whilst I am not longer getting readings of nil for both PO4 and NO3 they are still low, after 3 days of IE...the readings today are teh same as yesterday at NO3 2.5ppm and PO4 1.5, so Ive upped the dose of NO3 today. Yesterday the PH tested at 6.8 and kh at 11 (up from my previous reading of 7) gh at 21 !(which is up from 15). The water is lovely and clear and the substrate looks good after the 50% water change (after 5 weeks of no change because I was trying out easybalance).

I have planted some extra plants including cambomba and some floaters.........but still none of them are pearling which is disappointing, or am I being impatient

 

[zig]

Zig, do you use this to put water into the tank? if so doesnt it shock the fish to put 50% cold water in? and also hwo do you use the dechlorinators with this method? (at the moment I fill up a plastic bin, add the dechlorinators then use a bucket to fill the tank up with)........................also where can you buy these pythons from, it certainly sounds alot easier.

Hi Terri

If you go to the DIY section there is a pinned topic on pythons, i made my own version to suit my setup, i use the mixer tap in my kitchen which means i can mix both the hot and cold water to get the right temprature as i refill the tank, you measure out the dechlorinator and put this in the tank first before you refill it.

The green spot algae has gone because you increased the co2.

I wouldnt worry to much about the bba turning red if you are following my experiments with the Excel in the other thread thats about as red as my bba seems to have gotten, but it now has started turning a greyish white which is a sign it is dying off, and this is what i would look for more than the red, some peoples bba turn a very intense red but this didnt happen for me, its still early days for you and the Excel treatment so just see what happens and post your findings in here.

I dont know what they put in the Seachem ready mixed ferts for nitrate, some people have major difficulty getting readings with it, so i would have to question exactly how much nitrate they auctually put in it, definatly get the dry ferts they will cost less than £10 for both nitrate and phosphate.

Forget the easybalance your gh and kh are both workable for a planted tank.

Get a proper fertilisation regime in place along with the co2 and your plants will probably start pearling soon enough.

Dose the trace 15ml 3x per week on the days you dont dose nitrate and phosphate.

Keep us updated as to your progress

 

[griffgrogg]

Hi

well the green spot algae has gone and the bba looks as though its gone, so thats good news. Ive starting dosing using my dry fert solution. Ive got the PO4 up to1-1.5pmm and fairly stable however Im having problems with dosing the NO3...............as I started with nil readings Ive been trying to take it up slowly, over the last 2 weeks the highest reading Ive got is 2.5ppm despite dosing of up to 10ppm every day !! does this mean that my plants are using up the remainder daily ? if so should I up the daily dosage to 18ppm until I can maintain a reading of 10 ppm ? Ive recently added some cabomba, swords and floating plants (my CO2 Ive kept at 35 ish)......

Terri

 

[zig]

If i remember correctly you had problems dissolving the KNO3 and you diluted the origional solution, are you sure you are dosing 10ppm of KNO3 or just 10ppm of the more diluted solution which would in effect be 5ppm KNO3.............10ppm a day would be a lot in my experience, 5ppm a day is a very possible uptake rate, with an uptake rate of 10ppm per day i would expect your tank to be packed with fast growing plants, but i dont think it is, i think the majority of them are medium growers.

 

[griffgrogg]

Zig,

yes thats right I did have problems with it saturating............I added the solution I had made up (250ml worth) to another 250ml of water so that each ml would be .5ppm......yesterday I had a reading of 2ppm of NO3 and dosed 15ml (which should be 7.5ppm) making a total of 9.5ppm?) and had a NO3 reading today of the 2ppm again. The kit is new and I was using the same kit before I started and it showed nil and different readings again for my tap water.......I have alot of vallis and crpts, ergeria, cabomba and floating plants.....

Terri

 

[zig]

Are you sure you mixed the solution up correctly? Do you remember how many grams of KNO3 you added to the origional solution.

I would still suspect something is wrong, if you have to dose 18ppm each day just to maintain 10ppm no3 something is wrong somewhere, this would mean you are dosing over 100ppm per week, i only dose 20ppm a week in total and my tank contains fast growers at the moment.

Maybe the test kit is bad.....its very possible, what happens if you dose 10ppm and then you do a test 15 minutes later (to give the solution time to circulate in the tank to get a proper reading) what reading would you get then i wonder.

 

[griffgrogg]

Are you sure you mixed the solution up correctly? Do you remember how many grams of KNO3 you added to the origional solution.

I would still suspect something is wrong, if you have to dose 18ppm each day just to maintain 10ppm no3 something is wrong somewhere, this would mean you are dosing over 100ppm per week, i only dose 20ppm a week in total and my tank contains fast growers at the moment.

Maybe the test kit is bad.....its very possible, what happens if you dose 10ppm and then you do a test 15 minutes later (to give the solution time to circulate in the tank to get a proper reading) what reading would you get then i wonder.

Zig, Ive got a 240l tank (I rounded down to 60 US gallons equivalent) I initially mixed up 98g KNO3 to 250 ml distilled water which didnt saturate so I mixed the solution with another 250 ml water, which I calculated should give .5ppm / 1ml. I've just dosed the tank with 15ml so I'll give it another hour for the filter to circulate it around a bit then test and see if the readings any higher....