Algae Wonderland

[Rhea]

OK, first a bit of history. My tank has been set up for nearly a year, and it was doing ok. Not great, but ok - dosing 10ml daily of Green Brighty Step 2. Whilst the plants were growing there was a bit of algae and nutrient issues, so after searching forums to see how other people were using the ADA ferts I started to dose Brighty K. Unfortunately shortly after I ran out of Green Brighty and didn't get more for a few weeks, and the result was a tank full of thread algae which I haven't recovered from. For the past few months I've tried lowering and raising the fert levels and all I've managed to do is let a lot of other algaes get a foothold.

What I really need is a way to control the algae and get onto a correct fert regime - please help!

Tank specs:

260 litres, waterchange 75l weekly using 1/3 RO
Levels:
NO3 - 5ppm max
NO2 - 0ppm
PO4 - 0ppm
NH3 - 0ppm
CO2 - 30ppm (according to drop checker)
Lighting:
2 x 38W T8s 9 hours per day
2 x 39W T5s 7 hours per day

I've attached two images below that should show some of the problems

 

[Eel-Man]

if I were you I would maybe cut a little back on the lighting for a while and maybe get a small algea eater, and you might have to do a little algea scrubbing ...

 

[JamesC]

Not a pretty sight I know but it is recoverable from with a bit of work. You are running a high light, high light tank but are not providing the plants with the nutrients they require to grow as can be seen by your 0ppm PO4 and 5ppm NO3. Plants need Carbon, NPK (nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium), calcium, magnesium and traces in pretty much that order of importance. The algae you have are an indication of low nutrient levels and also possibly of disturbing the substrate and not doing a large water change afterwards. Oh, the algae I can positively identify are Oedogonium and Rhizoclonium. Take a look at http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm for some more info on algae.

First thing I'd do is lower the lighting intensity until the problem is sorted. Cut out as much as the algae as possible. Could you give us some more details on your CO2 setup and how the CO2 is dissolved into the tank. You are going to have to decide how best to supply the plants with nutrients. There is a pinned thread about Estimative index which should explain a fair bit. If 50% water changes seem too much for you then have a look at the PMDD dosing I do - link in signature. You could carry on with ADA products but they are very expensive and provide no benefit over using dry fertilisers. Dosing flourish excel does hit these algae hard especially if overdosed. Whatever you do though unless you fix the fertiliser problem the algae is going to come straight back.

CO2 problems can also cause algae outbreaks. Plants like stability over everything else which is why pressurised is best. Also good water flow is extremely important. Do you have good circultaion around the whole tank?

James

 

[Rhea]

Thanks for the questions, I'll get back with answers later today. Just wanted to quickly add two more pics I didn't have time for yesterday before I go to work....




I agree it's not a pretty sight - imagine trying to explain to this to my husband when he asks where all my money goes

 

[chrisovington]

Thanks for the questions, I'll get back with answers later today. Just wanted to quickly add two more pics I didn't have time for yesterday before I go to work....

View attachment 47018
View attachment 47017

I agree it's not a pretty sight - imagine trying to explain to this to my husband when he asks where all my money goes

LOL, that's funny cause I have to explain to my wife where all my money goes too... I will be watching this closely cause I am having similar problems and am just about to start the EI dosing to help my plants along.

 

[Rhea]

Current algae eaters I have are around 10 ottos, and a sturisoma. Shrimp are a no go due to the angels, don't really want to add any more fish if I can help it.

For CO2 I use a JBL ProfiSet, and have a ceramic Rhinox diffuser positioned under the spraybar at the left of the tank (filter inlet is on the right back corner). Circulation is ok but possibly not great, I get very little surface movement and run an Eheim 2126 external filter.

The pictures were taken just before my weekly waterchange, at each change I remove as much of the algae as I can. As it gets wrapped around the plants it usually involves quite a heavy pruning of the hygrophilia and rotala with the worst leaves of the swords removed as well. I also tend to clear a pach of the glosso each week with as little substrate disturbance as possible, and get it away from the glass to try and reduce the BGA. The wood I've given up on, it's too awkward to remove so I'll tackle that later on. I have dosed excel in the past to try to clear the wood and didn't see any improvement.

My tank has always run low on nutrients, not sure if this is usual in ADA fertilised tanks? I would like to stay on ADA, I found this link a while ago with suggested dosing and it's what I was trying to change to when the thread algae attacked - anyone got any different suggestions - http/www.adaeuro.com/gestioneacquari_eng.asp?

I went on holiday for two weeks in Agust and ran the tanks on half light, no ferts. All growth slowed but as soon as I started dosing again the problem came back. What would you suggest lowering the light level to and for how long? Should I do any fertilising?

 

[JamesC]

From the extra photo's you can add BGA, GSA, staghorn and possibly Spirogyra to the algae list. All these algaes point to poor CO2, low nutrients, dirty substrate, dirty filter and a general lack of maintanence. Either some of them or all of them. By poor CO2 I mean low levels, poorly distributed or fluctuating levels. Generally speaking these algaes appear after disturbing the substrate, overfeeding and not doing large water changes along with poor nutrient levels. Your filter is IMO a tad underpowered for your tank. To give you an idea I use an Eheim 2028 in my 200 litre tank which I find is just about OK and gives me good water surface movement along with good distribution around the tank.

ADA fertilisers do work but they are pretty lean. Designed to work with an ADA substrate as a complete solution. What substrate are you using? If not ADA you will most likely need to add much larger amounts of fertilisers. Complete ADA setups do run pretty lean but they also do large water changes.

Cut the light intensity back is my advice. Your glosso will probably start to grow upwards as a result though. You need more ferts so will need to decide how you are going to do this. Remember hobby grade test kits for NO3 and PO4 are more often than not a total waste of time and don't give any accurate results. High light is always more difficult to maintain as plants use up nutrients so quickly.

James

 

[Rhea]

I am using the ADA substrate as well as the ferts (amazonia + powersand).

My CO2 should be stable, I've put the drop checker at the top right of the tank to try and make sure it is distributed properly (diffuser is in back left corner).
I didn't know my waterchanges were that small for a non EI tank, ideally I would like to stay with the ADA ferts for now but I'm aware my dosing is out from what it should be - my problem is trying to get to a stable aquarium so I can start from scratch to work out what they should be with the previous article as a regime to aim for until I find out different.

So it sounds like to start with I'll reduce my light down to just 2 bulbs and see how things go. Should I stop fertilising for now and start again when I have all the light back on in a few weeks?

I think I'm going to have to stick with my current filter for now, it was recommended to me when I set the tank up so it's only a few months old. I may be able to move it onto one of my other tanks in a few months which will allow me to upgrade this one.

 

[SuperColey1]

You should continue dosing while the lights are reduced. If you stop dosing then you are creating another inconsistency.

The drop checker should be moved down the side of the tank a bit. It will give you a false reading for CO2 position near the top because CO2 is a gas and rises.

I have mine about 5 inches below the water surface.

 

[Rhea]

I'll move the drop checker down, hadn't thought about it being too high. I use the AE 4dkh solution not my aquarium water as even with the ADA substrate my water is still on the hard side.
I'm currently running it at about 3-4bps so hopefully I'll get a similar reading in the new location.

I understand what you mean about not stopping dosing entirely but surely I need to reduce it if I halve the light? I'm now dosing the same as I was before this outbreak.

 

[SuperColey1]

James will probs confirm but if you are fighting algae and injecting CO2 then it doesn't matter if you are putting more ferts in than the plants need because you will be doing more water changes.

When we do EI we dose excess nutrients (meaning that there is always a supply of everything the plants need) and then do a 50% water change each week which in effect resets the nutrient levels then start again etc.

Its the plants that fight the algae. If they are all growing well and there are enough of them then the algae wil slowly but surely disappear. It is a misnomer to remove nutrients to fight algae because you are then removing what the plants need.

It sounds to me like you are underdosing anyway. You have a huge amount of light over your tank but are only using the bottles recommended levels.

Larger tanks need less WPG to be regarded highlight whereas smaller tanks need lots lots more.

Therefore if you just use the 78W of light then you should still get growth but a little slower. If you are worried then dose the KNO3 and KH2PO4 every 2 days and then use a nitrate test kit (as a guide only as they are inaccurate) to see how much is left.

If there are too many nutrients in the tank they will not hurt the fish and they will not induce algae. Underdosing just 1 nutrient will result in algae because the plants need the complete linkup to grow. If 1 'link' runs out then the plants stop and algae starts instead.

In other words if your plants are using 20g of Nitrate over 2 days it doesn't matter if you dose 40g because you can do a large water change to dilute or 'reset' your tank. It does matter if you dose 10g because they will use up the 10g then stop. Algae will start then each time the plants have to restart which they are not as good at as algae.

Think of it like a car engine. If you keep it running it gets smoother after it has run for a few miles. If you turned the engine off every time you hit a red light you never get to this smoothness. Algae doesn't have this problem as it is much more adaptable. Its more like a very alert parasite that the minute the plants stop it bursts into action. Once the ferts are replenished it takes the plants a much longer time to start up.

Its a 1 step forward 2 steps back scenario, so don't worry about overdosing. The plants will appreciate it and will use as much as they can and not stop which will help you combat the algae.

Does sound to me like a CO2 problem to me though. What colour green are you seeing? I have mine at a limeade sort of colour (the colour in my avatar I would describe as turquoise andwould be too close to blue to be good)

Andy

 

[Rhea]

I have always had brush algae (esp on the wood) which does always seem to be down to CO2 when I look on forums, but I'm struggling to get it higher.

My indicator is dark green, I have tried getting if to go yellow before and got nowhere near. The current spraybar position and diffusor is my latest attempt to get the CO2 level higher but I think I must be doing something wrong, maybe a higher flowrate from the filter would help?

I now understand about the dosing, thanks for the explanation

 

[Rhea]

Thanks for all your help, think of got a plan now so hopefully I'll be back in a few weeks with some better looking pictures (is that positive thinking or what ) but your comments about CO2 have got me worried.

I've always been a bit suspicious of my levels, but as long as my drop checker showed green I ignored it. But I would be happier if I got it a lot lighter, and have been trying to think of ways I could do it.

I guess it's either a problem with how I'm diffusing the CO2, or it isn't being distributed well enough around the tank.

If it's a diffusion issue I could switch to something like the AquaMedic reactor; if it's tank circulation I could either improve my filter, change the location of the inflow/outflow, or add another powerhead to get a bit more current.

Any suggestions how I can work out what the problem is? I'd like to get some advice before I waste money.

 

[SuperColey1]

Shouldn't be a problem with a Rhinox diffusor. I use one and many others do.

Which model do you have? Should be at the top limits for a 2000 more suitable would be a 5000 with your size of tank.

Circulation ismore of an issue here gauging by the comments on your filter. Most of us overfilter which tends to get the water circulating faster.

Also where are your in and outflows position? Are they on the same side or opposites. Normally if you take water out from the bottom of one side and introduce from the top of the same side it means that it circulates in a circular motion (according to reading, not particularly knowledgable of the sciences)

Andy

 

[Rhea]

I run the Rhinox 5000, switched to it not along go so glad it should be ok.
I have the diffusor in the back lefthand corner of the tank with the spraybar running vertically above it. The filter inlet is in the back right corner.

Because the driftwood is quite large I put them on opposite sides to make sure the water circulates around it but I'll try and play with a few different arrangements to see if it improves. But it sounds like a bigger filter would be a benefit, would upgrading to the 2128 be enough?