Aggressive African Butterfly Cichlid?

[Elly]

I got an African butterfly cichlid and a bolivian ram about a week ago. They were fine, the butterfly cichlid chased the ram a bit but then they calmed down. I got a new bolivian ram yesterday thinking mine was lonely, but now both the old ram and the butterfly cichlid pick on the new ram - they keep chasing and nipping at it, and its colours have faded whilst the other two's colours have become very prominent. The african butterfly has also started to chase the old ram too.

Any ideas? Should I return the new ram to save him getting picked on, or return the african butterfly? Is this normal dwarf cichlid behaviour?

 

[ox5477]

These two fish shouldn't be together first of all. One is african and likes a high pH(>7.5 atleast) and the rams are south american (ph<7.0). True, they can live in these other water conditions, but it will not make for perfect body chemistry and could shorten the life span of the fish and even make them sick and possibly could die.

Now, the reason why they are fighting is because they are cichlids. All cichlids are very territorial, especially when it comes to other cichlids (whether it be their own species or not). Dwarf cichlids seem to be more tolerant but they are still cichlids and get get a nasty side about them. The butterfly originally prob attacked the ram because the ram is in general a more peaceful species and the butterfly was just trying to show his dominance of the tank.

They prob attacked the second ram you added because it is a new fish added to the territory they already are fighting over so it is taking their space. Also, if they are all males, then this will lead to even more reason for dispute (as all males seem to contest eachother in nature for terittory and females).

I would remove the african and either get another tank set up to the water parm's he likes or take him back to the lfs. If you keep the two rams then I would take them out and put them in seperate containers, do a water change and rearrange the tank. When you put the fish back in, this will give both fish a chance to establish new territory. They should settle down after a few minutes and the boundary is set. (note: sorry if your reading this someone out there and your thinking, "I wrote that a few days ago." I did take your idea and I tried it and worked great! So i'm just passing on the good advice )

Anyways, if that still doesn't work, then just take one back and you can stock your tank with other community fish and the ram shouldn't bother them.

 

[Elly]

Thanks for the advice. I was told that the bolivian rams I bought would be fine in my water because they were kept in water of a similar pH at the LFS. They seem to have calmed down a lot now but if the fighting continues then I will probably take the african butterfly back. I was thinking of rearranging the tank - I'll try that.

 

[ox5477]

I was told that the bolivian rams I bought would be fine in my water because they were kept in water of a similar pH at the LFS

Well like i said, they can live in water not good for them, but it will severly shorten their life if they are not what they should have.

What are your water parms? (pH, hardness)

Also, a fish store (most anyways cause they only care about making money) will tell you the fish will be fine in any type of conditions as long as you buy it. I've been told before that if I needed to, I've been told that i can keep an oscar, a jack dempsey and a green terro all in a 30G before....my jaw dropped when i heard that one. Also, i've heard the same store tell a woman that she could put a school of neon's in with figure eight puffers as long as the school was atleast 15 or more fish.....they said the puffer wouldn't be able to lock onto one fish thereby the fish would be fine..... let alone the fact that f8's are brackish...... fish stores will tell you anything.....

EDIT: spelling and grammar

 

[Elly]

pH is 8, I don't know about the hardness but I know the water in my area is fairly hard.

I do know not to believe everything the LFS say - I've been told in the past a load of rubbish about bala sharks being able to go in a 10G because "they grow to fit the tank". I guess I just thought because this seemed to be a very reputable LFS, not a chainstore only interested in money, that they'd be right about it doing OK in my water which was similar to theirs.

Ah well, I'll see how it goes. Thanks for your advice.

 

[ox5477]

pH is 8, I don't know about the hardness but I know the water in my area is fairly hard.

I do know not to believe everything the LFS say - I've been told in the past a load of rubbish about bala sharks being able to go in a 10G because "they grow to fit the tank". I guess I just thought because this seemed to be a very reputable LFS, not a chainstore only interested in money, that they'd be right about it doing OK in my water which was similar to theirs.

Ah well, I'll see how it goes. Thanks for your advice.

If your pH is 8.0 then def keep the butterfly and get some other african cichlids. Your water is perfect for them. The rams are going to have to go though. I would check out some of the african cichlid tanks members have posted on this forum, they are pretty awesome.

 

[Katchan]

Wild Mikrogeophagus altisponosa (butterfly or bolivian ram) are collected from waters that can have a ph of 7.6 or above (information taken from linke/staeck american cichlids 1 - dwarf cichlids)

african butterfly cichlids are not normal african cichlids, they are a riverine variety like the krib and forest jewel and as such their home waters are usually much less than african cichlids (often around ph 7)

Both african butterfly and bolivan's occupy similar areas of the water table and as such fighting (mostley flaring with some nipping) is likely to occur with the introduction of a new specimen. Ox5477 was right in one respect in that taking all the fish out, changeing the decor and plants around will help as this resets any already claimed territory, but it will trigger more fighting until new territories are sorted.

The keeping of the african butterfly with the bolivians could prove benifical if you have a m/f pair of bolivians as the butterfly would act as a target fish for the bolivians and bring them together. If your tank is the onepictured in your avatar it looks like it should be ok for the three of them anyways (just gussing as I dont know the dimensions

just my 2c

Andrew

edit in - forgot to mention, aslong as to water paramaters (ph etc) arnt to far out, stable figures are far more important than exact figures and I would disagree with ox here

 

[pica_nuttalli]

indeed. just as you shouldn't assume that all cichlids are from Africa, don't assume that all African cichlids are from the Rift Lakes. Africa is a mighty big place; in comparison, the Rift Lakes are inky-dink.

 

[ox5477]

agreed, my bad for giving that advice sorry

aslong as to water paramaters (ph etc) arnt to far out, stable figures are far more important than exact figures