Aggression In Blue Ram

[onidrase]

So I would eventually like to replace the tetras that died. When would it be most appropriate time to add the other four tetra that died?

Any time you feel fit. Just keep a close eye on the ram after adding them, my cichlids can sometimes be unwelcoming to newcomers, or they may not even notice they're there. It really just depends on the individual. If she acts out (sometimes mine will act out at the bag with the fish while the new ones are being acclimatized!) remove her, and put her back in once the new fish have settled for a little while.

How many tetras do you have already? I've been addimore uublack skirts and red eye tetras to my tank now and then, but since there is already 9 black skirts and 6 red eyes, they don't even notice that more come into the then. it's big drastic changes in school sizes or new species that they're particularly aggressive about.

Well when she was added, 5 tetras were present. One died in transport so she never really "encountered" her. Then three were killed. I'd be adding 4 more to regain the orginal 5 I bought. But I know cichlids can be unkind to newcomers in the tank. At the same time, my terra shouldn't be by herself

I'd say give it a shot, I went from 1 surviver red eye from a bundle that died of a heater shortage, then added 4 more very recently, and neither the firemouth or the convict noticed the newcomers. Just watch for aggression. If things don't go well, I'd advise either getting a new ram or getting a different species of tetra that is larger and more tolerant of cichlid hissy fits. My black skirts hardly even pay attention to my cichlids then they're being cranky, they'll just move out of the way before they get nipped and laze around some more.

I would give you some advise in alternative species, but given your choice of cardinal tetras and a blue ram, it seems like you like colorful fish, whereas I like the more dull fishes. One thing I can advise is to avoid silvertip tetras and buenos aires tetras, IME both of these species are little monsters, constantly nipping tank mates, and buenos aires even tore up my live plants!

All you have in the tank is the cardinal, ram, and otos, right? You could probably up the numbers on the oto's and cardinals, I'd aim to get more like 10-12 cardinal tetras and 6-8 otos as tank mates for the ram. Maybe the larger number will make the ram less prone to aggression, but I couldn't prove or disprove that idea.

EDIT: Just reread the post and saw the gourami thing. IMO 10 cardinals and 6 ottos would still be great, and both species would thank you

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

EDIT: Just reread the post and saw the gourami thing. IMO 10 cardinals and 6 ottos would still be great, and both species would thank you

I only have a 20 gallon tank though, would I be overstocking?

 

[onidrase]

EDIT: Just reread the post and saw the gourami thing. IMO 10 cardinals and 6 ottos would still be great, and both species would thank you

I only have a 20 gallon tank though, would I be overstocking?

If you ask me, it'd be perfect stocking, cardinals and otos are small, and have a small bioload. They'd be happier to be in a bigger group than to be in a smaller group and have slightly more space.

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

EDIT: Just reread the post and saw the gourami thing. IMO 10 cardinals and 6 ottos would still be great, and both species would thank you

I only have a 20 gallon tank though, would I be overstocking?

If you ask me, it'd be perfect stocking, cardinals and otos are small, and have a small bioload. They'd be happier to be in a bigger group than to be in a smaller group and have slightly more space.

Hmmm. I'll definitely go for it! I'll add them slowly to hopefully reduce the chance of aggression with my ram...

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

Hmmm. I've been watching my ram....she does like to pick on the tetras. The cardinal is losing its red streak, which means stress. Perhaps I'll switch them out for someone a bit bigger, like Black Phantom Tetras..

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

I could definitely just be getting paranoid; I do that with my tank quite often!

Here are some pics of the tank. Perhaps I could get suggestions on how to be successful here:

http/i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k619/benardob1/83369330.jpg

http/i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k619/benardob1/edae734a.jpg

http/i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k619/benardob1/eddfc033.jpg

 

[onidrase]

Hmmm. I've been watching my ram....she does like to pick on the tetras. The cardinal is losing its red streak, which means stress. Perhaps I'll switch them out for someone a bit bigger, like Black Phantom Tetras..

I believe cardinal and neon tetras also lose the red streak when they're "sleeping." Is it late out there? You might have just caught it when it's resting.

You may want to up the numbers before you come to a conclusion, though if it doesn't work things could be a little drastic if things don't go according to plan

Here's a picture of my tank, in which is stocked accordingly with little aggression:
1 convict cichlid
1 firemouth cichlid
9 black skirt tetras
6 red eye tetras
5 khuli loaches

It may seem a bit overstocked, but there isn't really any stress going on, and it's way overfiltered with the huge 75 gallon bio wheel, personally, I find whether or not your tank to be over or understocked purely based on if biological filter can handle the load and if the fish show signs of stress or not.

In regards to your tanks decor, you could maybe try adding another, smaller piece of driftwood to the tank in the bare space. My firemouth was constantly picking on my convict over tank space when I had all 3 pieces of driftwood stacked in one corner, but they ceased fighting as soon as I moved a piece to the other side.

on a totally unrelated note, is that a 20 gallon long tank? what kind of heater are you using? I'm liking the looks of it, and I'll be getting a 20 gallon long myself, hopefully to move my convicts in and breed them

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

Hmmm. I've been watching my ram....she does like to pick on the tetras. The cardinal is losing its red streak, which means stress. Perhaps I'll switch them out for someone a bit bigger, like Black Phantom Tetras..

I believe cardinal and neon tetras also lose the red streak when they're "sleeping." Is it late out there? You might have just caught it when it's resting.

You may want to up the numbers before you come to a conclusion, though if it doesn't work things could be a little drastic if things don't go according to plan

Here's a picture of my tank, in which is stocked accordingly with little aggression:
1 convict cichlid
1 firemouth cichlid
9 black skirt tetras
6 red eye tetras
5 khuli loaches

It may seem a bit overstocked, but there isn't really any stress going on, and it's way overfiltered with the huge 75 gallon bio wheel, personally, I find whether or not your tank to be over or understocked purely based on if biological filter can handle the load and if the fish show signs of stress or not.

In regards to your tanks decor, you could maybe try adding another, smaller piece of driftwood to the tank in the bare space. My firemouth was constantly picking on my convict over tank space when I had all 3 pieces of driftwood stacked in one corner, but they ceased fighting as soon as I moved a piece to the other side.

on a totally unrelated note, is that a 20 gallon long tank? what kind of heater are you using? I'm liking the looks of it, and I'll be getting a 20 gallon long myself, hopefully to move my convicts in and breed them

It is late out here - I didn't even think of that! And you were quite right, a few hours later it's colors came right back!

I purchased a few more cardinals today so far, so good!!!

On another note, your tank is beautiful! What kind of lighting do you use? I'm looking to get lights that bring out my ram's natural color. Right now, daylight does that better than my light for my tank. Clearly it's emitting on the shorter end of the spectra....

I also went with an excessive filter it filters for 30 gallons rather than 20. At first I thought the tank was a regular 20 gallon, but to be honest I'm not sure. It looks long to me, too. I received this tank as a gift from the department at my university! (it was an experiment they just never used!)
I believe the dimensions are 24"x10"x12", but I could totally be wrong!

 

[onidrase]

I'm using some marineland LED lights that came with the tank. They're much better at keeping the whole tank well lit than any fluorescent bulbs I've used, but they seem to be a bit more expensive. Not to mention, I love the moon lights for night time.

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

Four of the cardinals are dead

Two are left. No more cardinal tetras for me.

The upsetting part is that my Ram isn't attacking them this time. There were a few foolish tetras that would enter her territory. She chased them out without nipping, unless the tetra didn't move. These tetra then continuously made their way back in again. I also think that my Sparkling Gourami males are building a nest, because I saw one male actually nipping down a few of my tetras. I didn't necessarily see WHO killed my tetras, but those were the behaviors I observed. When I woke up in the morning, three were dead at the top of the tank and one was dead in the filter

I'm going to wait a week or two before adding any more tank mates - if I do.

The only two left are the two who aren't stupid enough to tread on anyone's territory - or at least understood the warning the first time from my Ram or Gouramis.

Time to start contemplating another type of tank mate...preferably something more hardy...

 

[onidrase]

Four of the cardinals are dead

Two are left. No more cardinal tetras for me.

The upsetting part is that my Ram isn't attacking them this time. There were a few foolish tetras that would enter her territory. She chased them out without nipping, unless the tetra didn't move. These tetra then continuously made their way back in again. I also think that my Sparkling Gourami males are building a nest, because I saw one male actually nipping down a few of my tetras. I didn't necessarily see WHO killed my tetras, but those were the behaviors I observed. When I woke up in the morning, three were dead at the top of the tank and one was dead in the filter

I'm going to wait a week or two before adding any more tank mates - if I do.

The only two left are the two who aren't stupid enough to tread on anyone's territory - or at least understood the warning the first time from my Ram or Gouramis.

Time to start contemplating another type of tank mate...preferably something more hardy...

Cardinals and neons are pretty fragile these days. Cardinals are a bit less fragile, but none the less, most people have had problems with the little guys. It might be a case of nobody killing the tetras, and the tetras just couldn't make it, and you've got two little troupers who can.

I'd try to get a different species of tetra this time around, or, better yet, look into harlequin rasboras, they're hardy and beautiful, and honestly, if I were to get a small fish in a tank, it would be them.

Oh, almost forgot, though, blue rams do enjoy higher temperatures for water. What temperature is your tank set at? GBR's like it at about 82. I'm not sure if rasboras will or not. I'd look around for schooling fish who do.

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

Cardinals and neons are pretty fragile these days. Cardinals are a bit less fragile, but none the less, most people have had problems with the little guys. It might be a case of nobody killing the tetras, and the tetras just couldn't make it, and you've got two little troupers who can.

I'd try to get a different species of tetra this time around, or, better yet, look into harlequin rasboras, they're hardy and beautiful, and honestly, if I were to get a small fish in a tank, it would be them.

Oh, almost forgot, though, blue rams do enjoy higher temperatures for water. What temperature is your tank set at? GBR's like it at about 82. I'm not sure if rasboras will or not. I'd look around for schooling fish who do.

I hope it's not me. I'm starting to think I'm the harbinger of death on these cardinals!
I was contemplating a harlequin rasbora, but aren't they very fragile as well? And what about size - would my ram attempt to make them a snack? I feel like my ram is bigger than the usual - maybe 3.5 inches...harlequins are small little beauties and I'd hate for them to experience the same fate. Otherwise, they are a perfect option for my tank. I adore them!!

I'm glad to hear Rams appreciate higher temps - I've got my tank set at 82. I've heard from some fish keepers that, as long as they're properly acclimated, almost any tropical fish can handle pretty high temps (and it's what I've used to treat ich in the past). I'm definitely going to look into rasbora tank temps as well.

Especially since I want a shoaling fish of great color - I like black phantoms, but my goal is to have a generic tank with the *fish* being the entity that really pop Thus my lovely little Ram!

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

Hmmmm....
Now that I think about it, I think harlequins will be the way to go. If I understand them correctly, they're more top-dwelling than other species. Since my ram is bottom/mid dwelling, it's a great way to help keep them from her territory! D

 

[onidrase]

IME, harlequins are the toughest little things I've ever seen. I've never kept a proper shoal of harlequin rasboras, but a newbie employee at my LFS snagged me a harlequin in the net when I was trying to get a bunch of bleeding hearts. Since I had no proof of it, I was stuck with keeping the little guy. I was worried he wasn't gonna make it without a school, and I had him in a tank full of feisty fully grown buenos aires tetras (that even my tiger barbs would cower from, mind you), But he still lived a good few months, even when the heater broke, he was still alive, when I did a no-no and pulled out the undergravel filter and all the gunk underneath it went water born, causing me to panic and do a huge freaking water change, he still lived, and I didn't even take him out of the tank.