Aggression In Blue Ram

[RobberyinCSharp]

Hi everyone
I have a 20gallon tank that's cycled and the water parameters look good. I stocked it with 5 cardinal tertra, 3 sparkling gourami, 2 Otto cats, and a German blue ram.

She was fine at first - no aggression. Very shy.
Today? She killed 3 tetras and is chasing after any and all fish in her path - she especially hates my ottos.

Though I do have vegetation in my tank, it's not fully-blown with plants. One huge radican sword, five or six amazon swords, two banana plants. These are in one corner. Then two java ferns on the side. She's spending most of her time with the swords.

Please tell me how to make her insanity stop!

 

[thereverendturtle]

Sounds like she's ready to spawn and is clearing out any possible threats to her eggs or fry. The only to stop her is rehome her or put a divider in the tank.

 

[Blue Ramirezi]

she wouldnt be so aggressive if there wasnt a male though.... Is the blue ram (or the other fish) new? if yes then its probably feeling threatened/intimidated by the almost equal size and possibly wants to show dominance. its just a geuss but also a possibility.

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

she wouldnt be so aggressive if there wasnt a male though.... Is the blue ram (or the other fish) new? if yes then its probably feeling threatened/intimidated by the almost equal size and possibly wants to show dominance. its just a geuss but also a possibility.

She is. I did make sure to put her in the tank last, after my other fish were added. What's strange is that she's staying in the least densely planted areas of my tank! How long will she display her dominance for, and is this a threat to my Other fish?

 

[Blue Ramirezi]

if she's feeling very intimidated you might have to say goodbye to the rest of ur tetras and possibly even one of ur oto's, eventually when she's feeling she's made her point she'll hog the food, attack all fish that beg and, excuse my language, be the ***** of the tank UNTILL!! evetually (about 4 months) she will calm down and come to befriend the other fish and become a tank member so its ur choice, rehome or not (there is always the chance the killing has already stopped

 

[onidrase]

if she's feeling very intimidated you might have to say goodbye to the rest of ur tetras and possibly even one of ur oto's, eventually when she's feeling she's made her point she'll hog the food, attack all fish that beg and, excuse my language, be the ***** of the tank UNTILL!! evetually (about 4 months) she will calm down and come to befriend the other fish and become a tank member so its ur choice, rehome or not (there is always the chance the killing has already stopped

I'm thinking not.

First off, if that sort of behavior continues for 4 months, there's a problem. It should only be a week or two at best.

Second off, leaving it alone is not the best of the best options. If a fish is attacking others to the point where they're dying or hiding behind the filter or heater in a corner of the tank, there are a few methods to take. I found one particularly effective.

What you do, is remove the aggressor from the tank into a large bowl of the tank water for 30 minutes or more.

Remove and re organize the decorations, maybe shift the substrate a bit while the fish is removed. This will break the territory bonds, and make the aggressor feel like she was just put in a different part of the river, thus more accepting to tetras and smaller fish, and less relentless to other territorial fish which are already in there. don't throw the fish into the tank right after you redecorate. Wait just a little while first.

This will help more than waiting 4 months for it to kill everything.

When my female convict acted out, I had to remove it completely from the tank. But that's a convict, not a ram. I have a feeling that if I waited 4 months with -any- fish for it to throw a fit, especially if there were already casualties, there would not be any other fish in the tank. And it wouldn't stop yet.


On another note, my cichlids have always been more aggressive toward the new arrivals, not the tank as a whole. I'm curious about why it's going after everything, even after being the last added.

you did the right thing in adding her last, but it might just be true she's a total psycho. I know how that goes.

Since rams in particular tend to be pretty docile (which is why I find it interesting that you rams actually attacked something) I think the rescape of the tank will be effective.

Since she was docile at first, it might be so that she has claimed a part of the tank, and doesn't want other fish going at it. Since your tetras are small, as are the ottos, they might just be less tolerant of the aggression.

If things don't work out, I'd rehome it and try another. Like I said, rams tend to be docile. It's surprising yours is getting aggressive. I've never had aggressive dwarf cichlids before.

Good luck

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

if she's feeling very intimidated you might have to say goodbye to the rest of ur tetras and possibly even one of ur oto's, eventually when she's feeling she's made her point she'll hog the food, attack all fish that beg and, excuse my language, be the ***** of the tank UNTILL!! evetually (about 4 months) she will calm down and come to befriend the other fish and become a tank member so its ur choice, rehome or not (there is always the chance the killing has already stopped

I'm thinking not.

First off, if that sort of behavior continues for 4 months, there's a problem. It should only be a week or two at best.

Second off, leaving it alone is not the best of the best options. If a fish is attacking others to the point where they're dying or hiding behind the filter or heater in a corner of the tank, there are a few methods to take. I found one particularly effective.

What you do, is remove the aggressor from the tank into a large bowl of the tank water for 30 minutes or more.

Remove and re organize the decorations, maybe shift the substrate a bit while the fish is removed. This will break the territory bonds, and make the aggressor feel like she was just put in a different part of the river, thus more accepting to tetras and smaller fish, and less relentless to other territorial fish which are already in there. don't throw the fish into the tank right after you redecorate. Wait just a little while first.

This will help more than waiting 4 months for it to kill everything.

When my female convict acted out, I had to remove it completely from the tank. But that's a convict, not a ram. I have a feeling that if I waited 4 months with -any- fish for it to throw a fit, especially if there were already casualties, there would not be any other fish in the tank. And it wouldn't stop yet.


On another note, my cichlids have always been more aggressive toward the new arrivals, not the tank as a whole. I'm curious about why it's going after everything, even after being the last added.

you did the right thing in adding her last, but it might just be true she's a total psycho. I know how that goes.

Since rams in particular tend to be pretty docile (which is why I find it interesting that you rams actually attacked something) I think the rescape of the tank will be effective.

Since she was docile at first, it might be so that she has claimed a part of the tank, and doesn't want other fish going at it. Since your tetras are small, as are the ottos, they might just be less tolerant of the aggression.

If things don't work out, I'd rehome it and try another. Like I said, rams tend to be docile. It's surprising yours is getting aggressive. I've never had aggressive dwarf cichlids before.

Good luck

Thank you! I really appreciate your advice. I sure hope I haven't bought myself a little terror. I'm going to go out and buy some more plants to offer extra hiding places. Ill also change up the scape.

I will let you know how it works!

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

Also, I just went back to my LFS and he said she should be homed in a 50 gallon tank. This is contrary to everything I've read on forums and other reliable sources. Is this the reason for her aggression?

Also, I just bought some wisteria and java ferns for her

 

[onidrase]

Also, I just went back to my LFS and he said she should be homed in a 50 gallon tank. This is contrary to everything I've read on forums and other reliable sources. Is this the reason for her aggression?

Also, I just bought some wisteria and java ferns for her

I wouldn't trust that. LFS people tend to be a little short of knowledgeable. for a single female ram, I would trust that a 15 gallon long tank would be fine. (as in, a more standard or longer tank, not a tall one.) Considering I can house a 6 inch long known to be aggressive fish (male convict) in a tank full of shy tetras and khuli loaches with no issues in a 37 gallon tank, I'd say a known to be docile 3 inch fish doesn't need a 50 gallon tank to calm down.

Adding more decorations will probably help. Do you have a cave or piece of driftwood she could take? My male convict claimed two pieces of driftwood stacked over each other, dug a pit underneath it, and won't bother any other fish unless they go inside of it.

I can honestly say that your ram is not being aggressive because it is uncomfortable, as suggested in previous advise. Cichlids tend to be shy and reserved when uncomfortable, not boisterous and aggressive. If you ask me, she's being aggressive either because she's a psycho of a pick and demands more territory, or because there isn't enough territory to guard and she is claiming the whole tank.

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

Also, I just went back to my LFS and he said she should be homed in a 50 gallon tank. This is contrary to everything I've read on forums and other reliable sources. Is this the reason for her aggression?

Also, I just bought some wisteria and java ferns for her

I wouldn't trust that. LFS people tend to be a little short of knowledgeable. for a single female ram, I would trust that a 15 gallon long tank would be fine. (as in, a more standard or longer tank, not a tall one.) Considering I can house a 6 inch long known to be aggressive fish (male convict) in a tank full of shy tetras and khuli loaches with no issues in a 37 gallon tank, I'd say a known to be docile 3 inch fish doesn't need a 50 gallon tank to calm down.

Adding more decorations will probably help. Do you have a cave or piece of driftwood she could take? My male convict claimed two pieces of driftwood stacked over each other, dug a pit underneath it, and won't bother any other fish unless they go inside of it.

I can honestly say that your ram is not being aggressive because it is uncomfortable, as suggested in previous advise. Cichlids tend to be shy and reserved when uncomfortable, not boisterous and aggressive. If you ask me, she's being aggressive either because she's a psycho of a pick and demands more territory, or because there isn't enough territory to guard and she is claiming the whole tank.

You are wonderful!!!! I did exactly what you said: I went out and bought some wisteria on top of the several swords and ferns I already had. I also have a large piece of driftwood.
I took her out for 45 minutes while I added the plants and moved a few others.

***So far***, after I put her back, she's totally calm. She still loves her little corner, but when she came back in the tank she took refuge under a section of the wood, and now, she's watching my Gouramis and Otto cats swim all around her and she's just fine.

Keep your fingers crossed she stays this way! I jumped for joy when I saw I could get a blue ram. I love her dearly.

Every now and again she goes storming into the greener area, but I don't see the aggression from before

 

[onidrase]

Also, I just went back to my LFS and he said she should be homed in a 50 gallon tank. This is contrary to everything I've read on forums and other reliable sources. Is this the reason for her aggression?

Also, I just bought some wisteria and java ferns for her

I wouldn't trust that. LFS people tend to be a little short of knowledgeable. for a single female ram, I would trust that a 15 gallon long tank would be fine. (as in, a more standard or longer tank, not a tall one.) Considering I can house a 6 inch long known to be aggressive fish (male convict) in a tank full of shy tetras and khuli loaches with no issues in a 37 gallon tank, I'd say a known to be docile 3 inch fish doesn't need a 50 gallon tank to calm down.

Adding more decorations will probably help. Do you have a cave or piece of driftwood she could take? My male convict claimed two pieces of driftwood stacked over each other, dug a pit underneath it, and won't bother any other fish unless they go inside of it.

I can honestly say that your ram is not being aggressive because it is uncomfortable, as suggested in previous advise. Cichlids tend to be shy and reserved when uncomfortable, not boisterous and aggressive. If you ask me, she's being aggressive either because she's a psycho of a pick and demands more territory, or because there isn't enough territory to guard and she is claiming the whole tank.

You are wonderful!!!! I did exactly what you said: I went out and bought some wisteria on top of the several swords and ferns I already had. I also have a large piece of driftwood.
I took her out for 45 minutes while I added the plants and moved a few others.

***So far***, after I put her back, she's totally calm. She still loves her little corner, but when she came back in the tank she took refuge under a section of the wood, and now, she's watching my Gouramis and Otto cats swim all around her and she's just fine.

Keep your fingers crossed she stays this way! I jumped for joy when I saw I could get a blue ram. I love her dearly.

Every now and again she goes storming into the greener area, but I don't see the aggression from before

Glad to hear it, hope things work out the only time the re arranging technique didn't work was with my female convict, glory, who has to be kept in her own tank for right now. I'm hoping to get her a mate, but she's a total terror, but I love her.

 

[Blue Ramirezi]

excellent information onidrase ! + 1 on evry thing u said

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

So I would eventually like to replace the tetras that died. When would it be most appropriate time to add the other four tetra that died?

 

[onidrase]

So I would eventually like to replace the tetras that died. When would it be most appropriate time to add the other four tetra that died?

Any time you feel fit. Just keep a close eye on the ram after adding them, my cichlids can sometimes be unwelcoming to newcomers, or they may not even notice they're there. It really just depends on the individual. If she acts out (sometimes mine will act out at the bag with the fish while the new ones are being acclimatized!) remove her, and put her back in once the new fish have settled for a little while.

How many tetras do you have already? I've been adding more black skirts and red eye tetras to my tank now and then, but since there is already 9 black skirts and 6 red eyes, they don't even notice that more come into the tank now and then. it's big drastic changes in school sizes or new species that they're particularly aggressive about.

 

[RobberyinCSharp]

So I would eventually like to replace the tetras that died. When would it be most appropriate time to add the other four tetra that died?

Any time you feel fit. Just keep a close eye on the ram after adding them, my cichlids can sometimes be unwelcoming to newcomers, or they may not even notice they're there. It really just depends on the individual. If she acts out (sometimes mine will act out at the bag with the fish while the new ones are being acclimatized!) remove her, and put her back in once the new fish have settled for a little while.

How many tetras do you have already? I've been addimore uublack skirts and red eye tetras to my tank now and then, but since there is already 9 black skirts and 6 red eyes, they don't even notice that more come into the then. it's big drastic changes in school sizes or new species that they're particularly aggressive about.

Well when she was added, 5 tetras were present. One died in transport so she never really "encountered" her. Then three were killed. I'd be adding 4 more to regain the orginal 5 I bought. But I know cichlids can be unkind to newcomers in the tank. At the same time, my terra shouldn't be by herself