Advice to Remineralise RO/DI water?

[Koglin]

Hey all,

So I got a new ro/di setup to maintain the softer water parameters of an oxbow biotope I'm working on. Somehow, I'll need to drop my pH by around 1-2, and will need to raise my kh and gh to both be around 4-5°dkh, while adding essential nutrients.

I found a few products online.. seachem equilibrium, seachem replenish, fluval remineralize, salty shrimp, and some shrimp mineralizers (some raise gh&kh, and some just raise gh).

Does anyone have any experience with any of these products? Or does anyone have a sound method to try? Don't wanna feel like I'm playing alchemist with a bunch of random chemicals, micro spoons, and powders like espom salt, baking soda, crushed coral etc. etc.

 

[HoldenOn]

Heard good things about the shrimp stuff. @seangee might be the one who used it.

 

[AbbeysDad]

I remember a while back that Byron suggested to a poster that Seachem tech support recommends Replenish instead of Equalibrium for restoring minerals to RO water. (But I'm not an expert on using RO water)

 

[CassCats]

I use Equilibrium for my livebearers since I've got soft water, it works good for what I need it for so far. But I cant speak much else about the rest

 

[Essjay]

Byron posted that the Seachem person he spoke to said that Equilibrium was for plants and Replenish was for fish.

Post #18 in this thread

Water trouble!

Yeah @essjay said you use 100% osmosis water. Did you buy your own RO filter or do you buy it somewhere? Is it expensive for to do waterchanges? My water is also very hard so maybe diluting it with RO water could help lower it or using RO and adding aquasafe to remineralize it a bit maybe? I...

www.fishforums.net

 

[seangee]

Heard good things about the shrimp stuff. @seangee might be the one who used it.

I use Salty Shrimp GH/KH+. It raises GH/KH in the ratio of 2:1 - in the tank I use it for I have 6 dGH and 3 dKH with a neutral pH (7)

 

[StevenF]

Byron posted that the Seachem person he spoke to said that Equilibrium was for plants and Replenish was for fish.

Equilibrium and Replenish both will work for plants and fish. Equilibrium is calcium / magnesium sufate. Replenish is calcium / Magnesium chloride. Only the Calcium and magnesium will effect GH. Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfate, and Chloride are all needed by fish and plants. So the question is do you want a lot of chloride with the Calcium and Magnesium the or a lot of sulfate? Some fish may prefer a lot of chloride with little sulfate while other fish might prefer a mix of mostly sulfur. Others might like a mix with both. Unfortunately the preference for each type of fish is not known.

But we do know that If you just use Equilibrium (a sulfate GH booster) that might result in a tank with insufficient chloride and plants don't do well without chloride. If you use replenish (a Chloride GH booster) you could end up with a sulfate deficiency. Again plants will not do well in a sulfate deficiency. Deficiencies are also not good for animals. Using a mix of chloride and sulfate is in my opinion a better way to remineralize.

For My RO water tank I purchased magnesium sulfate and Calcium chloride and then mixed these in a ratio of 3 parts calcium to one part magnesium. And I use that in my RO water tank. If you just use Equilibrium which is a sulfate GH booster you might result in a tank with insufficient chloride and plants don't do well without chloride. If you use replenish (a Chloride GH booster) you could end up with a sulfate deficiency. Again plants will not do well in a sulfate deficiency. Deficiencies are also not good for animals. Using a mix of chloride and sulfate is in my opinion a better way to remineralize.

It should be noted that most plant fertilizer don't have calcium or chloride. Why add these to a fertilizer when tap water already has it.? But if you don't know that you could likely have deficiency problems in RO water tank. But for a tap water tank you might or might not have enough of these elements so the fertilizers mayor may not work. The side effect of deficient fertilizers is many people don't realize the importance of calcium and chloride and sulfate. So some believe sulfate GH boosters are better for plants while Chloride GH boosters are better than fish. But therein o proof of that belief.

For tap water treatment process chlorine gas is mixed with the water to kill bacteria, parasites, and viruses. One biproduct of this will be elevated calcium and magnesium chloride in the water. Note chlorides are chlorine containitng salts are safe for fish and plants. Only chlorine gas and Chloramine are hazardous to fish. And you should assume all tape water has beeen exposed to chlorine gas and or Chloramines and pretreat the water before adding it to a tank.

 

[Koglin]

Equilibrium and Replenish both will work for plants and fish. Equilibrium is calcium / magnesium sufate. Replenish is calcium / Magnesium chloride. Only the Calcium and magnesium will effect GH. Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfate, and Chloride are all needed by fish and plants. So the question is do you want a lot of chloride with the Calcium and Magnesium the or a lot of sulfate? Some fish may prefer a lot of chloride with little sulfate while other fish might prefer a mix of mostly sulfur. Others might like a mix with both. Unfortunately the preference for each type of fish is not known.

But we do know that If you just use Equilibrium (a sulfate GH booster) that might result in a tank with insufficient chloride and plants don't do well without chloride. If you use replenish (a Chloride GH booster) you could end up with a sulfate deficiency. Again plants will not do well in a sulfate deficiency. Deficiencies are also not good for animals. Using a mix of chloride and sulfate is in my opinion a better way to remineralize.

For My RO water tank I purchased magnesium sulfate and Calcium chloride and then mixed these in a ratio of 3 parts calcium to one part magnesium. And I use that in my RO water tank. If you just use Equilibrium which is a sulfate GH booster you might result in a tank with insufficient chloride and plants don't do well without chloride. If you use replenish (a Chloride GH booster) you could end up with a sulfate deficiency. Again plants will not do well in a sulfate deficiency. Deficiencies are also not good for animals. Using a mix of chloride and sulfate is in my opinion a better way to remineralize.

It should be noted that most plant fertilizer don't have calcium or chloride. Why add these to a fertilizer when tap water already has it.? But if you don't know that you could likely have deficiency problems in RO water tank. But for a tap water tank you might or might not have enough of these elements so the fertilizers mayor may not work. The side effect of deficient fertilizers is many people don't realize the importance of calcium and chloride and sulfate. So some believe sulfate GH boosters are better for plants while Chloride GH boosters are better than fish. But therein o proof of that belief.

For tap water treatment process chlorine gas is mixed with the water to kill bacteria, parasites, and viruses. One biproduct of this will be elevated calcium and magnesium chloride in the water. Note chlorides are chlorine containitng salts are safe for fish and plants. Only chlorine gas and Chloramine are hazardous to fish. And you should assume all tape water has beeen exposed to chlorine gas and or Chloramines and pretreat the water before adding it to a tank.

That was really informative thank you!

Sent a couple emails out to mfr's for more direction as well, thanks for all the responses confident that I'm moving the right direction now

 

[seangee]

So I got a new ro/di setup to maintain the softer water parameters of an oxbow biotope I'm working on. Somehow, I'll need to drop my pH by around 1-2, and will need to raise my kh and gh to both be around 4-5°dkh, while adding essential nutrients.

What are you planning on stocking? I have an amazonian tank (although not a true biotope) and use RO water without re-mineralisation.
Hint: There is no need for DI - and the cost of the resin can add up quite quickly. I have 3 tanks that use pure RO and the pH range across the 3 is from 5.3 - 6, which is right in the range you are looking for.

 

[Koglin]

I have a journal thread about it too, gives more detail in my last post of the plants and fish I'm considering.
Fish:
Dicrossus filamentosus or maculatus (leaning filamentosus)
Carnegiella Strigata
Pygmaeus Corydoras

Between them and the plants I'm looking at, was hoping to keep my ph around 6.8-ish and my kh/gh both around 4-5°dkh. With the ro water, I'm pretty close, just need to let the ph drop a bit (covered) and raise the kh/gh that little bit.

Also wanna learn how to adjust them beforehand in case everything got out of whack while it is running (still cycling)

Was thinking of a bi weekly change, 10-20%, so only have to treat 2-4 gallons at a time regardless (it's a 20 long).

Think I'd be ok to just keep doing fresh ro/di? Would be nice to not replace the di filter after it's exhausted, I'll prob. use it up first.

Would save me $ for sure too if I didn't have to microdose around like a mad scientist, I did find some cool spoon sets though. >.>

 

[seangee]

According to seriouslyfish.com (a reliable source)
For hatchetfish:

The water is typically acidic, of negligible carbonate hardness and conductivity and stained brownish due to the presence of humic substances released by decomposing organic matter.

For Dicrossus filamentosus

pH: Can tolerate up to 7, but much more acidic is required to breed Filamentosa – 4.5 to 5.8.
Hardness: Again, can tolerate moderately hard water but will only thrive and breed with very little hardness (1°dH or lower recommended).

For pygmy cories

Hardness: 2 to 15°H but preferably below 8.

Of the species you listed I only keep c.pygmaeus and I keep these in "pure" RO water. I would just stick with this and not mess around with dosing.
BTW: Check the temperature requirements. The cories and cichlids have incompatible ranges: 26C is the top of the range for the cories and 27C the bottom of the range for the cichlids. You could possibly "get away" with 26-27 but this would not be optimal for either species. (Hatchetfish have a much wider range and would be fine with either).

 

[Koglin]

According to seriouslyfish.com (a reliable source)
For hatchetfish:

For Dicrossus filamentosus

For pygmy cories

Of the species you listed I only keep c.pygmaeus and I keep these in "pure" RO water. I would just stick with this and not mess around with dosing.
BTW: Check the temperature requirements. The cories and cichlids have incompatible ranges: 26C is the top of the range for the cories and 27C the bottom of the range for the cichlids. You could possibly "get away" with 26-27 but this would not be optimal for either species. (Hatchetfish have a much wider range and would be fine with either).

Yeeaahh and I made note of that too in my journal thread (anything in the thread marked with an * is still under considerations.) The cichlids, and a couple plants, are still being debated through more research (ph, hardness, and temp. variances).

I know so far that if I went for some filamentosus or the maculatus I couldnt breed them unless I put them in a breeding tank because other tank life will suffer if I drop the parameters that low (could keep them alive w/o breeding but I try to keep things more natural for any stock).

I do appreciate the advisement though!

Since you have soft water tanks, any suggestions for a different centerpiece fish instead of the dicrossus? Was looking a couple types of apistos and rams, I read they are more docile when alone.. but I dunno, don't want a solo fish unless I have to.

I was thinking of just making the pygmy or hatchet schools bigger (prob. Pygmy) if I can't find a different centerpiece fish/pair. Sounds like if I just did the Pygmy's and hatchets I could just use straight ro/di water too you think?

 

[seangee]

Since you have soft water tanks, any suggestions for a different centerpiece fish instead of the dicrossus?

I have never bothered with so called centrepiece fish because IMO large groups make far more effective displays. The closest thing I have (in a group) are trichopsis pumila, but they are from a different continent so won't fit the biotope.

 

[Retired Viking]

I just have shoals of small tetra fish in my RO tank - neon, glow light and ember along with Albino cory and a red eyed tetra. I guess you could say she is my centerpiece fish since she is larger than my other tetras I still mix my RO with treated tap water and have my softness at around 35ppm. I have noticed that some of my plants suffer in soft water like my aracharis. It grew so large when my water was at 134ppm before I started adding RO water but seems to melt away at the lower levels of hardness.