Advice Please On Water Changes

[dreamermama]

Hello, I'm brand-new here today! I'm grateful for these boards.

I am a busy mom and my children and I are enjoying learning about fishkeeping. I need some advice regarding water changes.

We have two tanks, a 5 gal and a 10 gal. So far, between the two tanks, we have 4 regular goldfish, 3 corydora catfish, and 2 dwarf plecos. But we want to move everyone out of the 5 and get it ready for 3 guppies--our first real go at tropicals, yay!

Until today, this was the set-up:
5-gal had: 2 comets, 1 cory, 1 dwarf pleco. The comets we've had since a July 4th party where the kids got them free. Pulled from the pool. They are too large for the 5-gal now but doing ok.

10-ga had: 2 plain goldfish (not fancy but fancier than comets), 2 cories, 1 dwarf pleco. Again, had the goldfish since 7/4/07. All doing well, but pleco doesn't come out of hiding and ignores algae completely, so it got to be bad. I cleaned most of it this week with a scrubber.

I made some newbie mistakes in past two weeks regarding filter changes and water changes and now the levels have spiked, whereas in February they were good (I don't have test kits, I take water samples to LFS):
My 5-gal has a simple filter system (Whisper) which, according to the instructions, you're "supposed to" completely change to new every month (the bag and the carbon). Now I see that's not so good because it gets rid of so much good bacteria. But I did just that 2 weeks ago, and did a 20% water change while siphoning the gravel. Before that it had been several months, yet water test at LFS was good in February. Then, ten days later, just a few days ago, I did a 50% water change and gravel cleaning because water was cloudy. It started to clear up and today I got water tested: Ammonia very high (3 ppm); Nitrites very high (200 ppm) and Nitrites between 3-5 ppm. Also high. The LFS employee who tested my water discouraged me from doing any more water changes until a week had gone by, and then only 25% whereas the test result literature says to do daily water changes. He sold me some Bio-Boost to add good bacteria. What would you do?

OK, on to the 10 gallon:
This one is my 9yo daughter's and with our busy schedules I've pretty much ignored cleaning it. It is all glass and came with a wimpy filter which by accident ran dry for a few hours soon after we got it in July 2007. I think that made it worse. But the fish have all survived despite our blundering. Anyway, I wanted to get this tank ready for all the fish from the 5-gallon so I bought a better filter, one that filters 100 gal/hour. Newbie mistake: I removed old filter, put in new, voila! Oops, didn't understand about keeping filter media. This is what I did this week after this tank had been ignored for months. It has been sparsely decorated due to a low pet budget but we're slowly improving it. :
1. changed to new filter
2. removed one algae-covered plant (fake) to clean it
2. scrubbed 3 walls clean of algae, leaving fourth for pleco
3. installed a heater for the cories and plecos since water was about 68 degrees F and it is warmer in the 5 gal.
4. siphoned gravel in some areas, yuck it was bad
5. while siphoning removed 50% of water
6. removed another algae-covered decoration to clean it, churning up more gunk
7. let aquarium rest a day or two
8. yesterday had daughter add back one plant (cleaned) plus add several new rocks, churning up more old gunk
9. got water tested today: Ammonia: 0 yay! Nitrates 200 ppm and Nitrites 3 ppm. Not good.
10. today moved the dwarf pleco and the cory from 5 gallon to stay in 10 gallon per OK from LFS employee.

So, what should I do regarding the high levels? LFS worker says to wait until a week has gone by since the last changes and then do less than 50%. He also wants me to add Bio-Boost (beneficial bacteria) with each change. He wants me to do this weekly and test water again in two weeks. He thinks the 5-gallon could be ready for guppies in 3-4 weeks even if I leave the large goldfish in there until then (but not sure we understood each other correctly on that).

Can I move the comets from the 5 gallon to the 10 sooner than 3-4 wks, and how soon? The 10 has better filtration and more space for them, but it will be a bit crowded. Do you think too crowded? Total goldfish size of all four is approx. 9 in. (Sometime daughter will let me give them to LFS, I think, as she wants tropicals too and knows the goldfish will outgrow the tank eventually)

How much time before I can put in guppies after goldfish are moved out? (5 gallon)

Sorry this is so long. Thanks for any advice!!!

 

[dreamermama]

Here are some pics from this week. I'm not especially proud of anything here as they are both in need of help/improvement; just thought it might help with advice:

5 gallon (I've sinced removed airstone shipwreck to give fish more space--or do they need the oxygen?):
http/i66.photobucket.com/albums/h255/dre...ng/IMG_5262.jpg

10 gallon with 2 plants/decor missing for cleaning:
[URL="http/i66.photobucket.com/albums/h255/dre.../IMG_5292-1.jpg"]http/i66.photobucket.com/albums/h255/dre.../IMG_5292-1.jpg[/URL]

I've been reading other posts and I think the advice for me is to go ahead and do water changes, but please let me know what you think...I'm frustrated at the LFS at the moment.....

 

[johanv]

Hi Dreamer,

I'm still trying to wake up here so if I don't make sense please ignore me

Difficult situtation you're in but not one you can't overcome. For the 5gal do the following:

1. Do an immediate 50-75% water change with dechlorinated water then continue with a daily 25% water change for 3-4days till you can have your water retested by the LFS. By doing these regular changes you give your fish a fighting chance as the new water will dilute the toxins (ammonia/nitrite).
2. Keep adding the Bio-Boost (I assume it is a bacteria which speeds up colonisation of the filter) as per the instructions on the container.
3. Add aquarium salt (not table salt) to help the fish manage with the high levels of ammonia & nitrite.

10gal as per the outline above.

Ideally here is what you should do (in my opinion). Find a different LFS!!!!!!!

I would not add the comets to the 10gal tank as you will be overstocking (see tips below on fish size).

Just some general tips:

1. Goldfish & variants grow to a size of 12" or more in an ideal environment and the minimum recommendation is 1 fish per 10gal of water. In cramped tanks their outer growth will be stumped, but their internal organs will continue to develop and eventually lead to all sorts of health problems for the fish in question and eventual death. Also keep in mind that goldfish reach ages of 20+ years!!!!

2. Goldfish are messier fish and require higher filtration than tropical fish. When you shop around for a filter, pick the next model up from the suggested one for certain tank size.

3. I don't know if you pay for your water tests, but I'd invest in three basic test kits (Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate) and do monthly water tests or if you suspect a problem with the water parameters.

And then there's loads of other tips too

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome
others will be along soon to offer ideas and advice. I would stay and help but it is time for the doggies to go walkies.
Hope you enjoy your time here.

 

[Tolak]

Go with the daily water changes as johanv mentioned. If 25% daily isn't keeping the levels lower bring it up to 50% daily. I would be using a water tratment that takes care of chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia, Tetra's Aquasafe or Seachem's Prime are two of the best.

I would go easy on the salt, while it does help with the effects of nitrite the catfish will not appreciate the salt. Nitrite inhibits a fish's blood from processing O2 properly, increasing aeration will help this. Since you have a Whisper filter lower the water level an inch below maximum, allowing the water to splash in a bit more, creating more surface motion.

Glad to see you and your daughter understand that the goldfish will grow too big for those tanks. They are messy fish, and will require a larger volume of water. Your water test results will determine when it is safe to move them to the 10 gallon, but since you have no ammonia but nitrite in the 10 you are probably closer to two weeks before you can move them. You might want to try to find someone who has a small pond, these fish will do fine in a pond, and your daughter might feel better knowing where their new home is. My daughter is 27, I have numerous stories of her saving poor defenseless animals.

Once the 5 gallon & 10 gallon have zero ammonia & nitrites the best thing to do would be not feed either tank anything for 24 hours. Pick up a trio of guppys for the 5, transfer the goldfish to the 10, and feed the 10 gallon lightly for the next week, about 1/3 normal. This will give the nitrifying bacteria a chance to catch up to the increased bio load, as less food eaten means less waste produced.

BTW, welcome to TFF!

 

[OldMan47]

Its time for the bad news. You have no place for new fish. You already have more than would fit well in a 10 and a 5. The plecos or the goldfish alone are too many for those tanks. That said, I admire your wish to make the 10 look nice but you are destroying the nitrifying bacteria that were serving that tank. That is one reason your nitrites are getting higher. Please do not wait a week or even a day for the next water change. Make lots of small water changes and do at least one a day. The reason for small is the very high nitrate and nitrite levels. Rapid large changes in these pollutants would be hard on the fish. I would favor more like 20% twice daily changes until you get closer to reasonable levels, then up the change to 50% daily until the nitrites are less than 0.25 ppm and the nitrates are less than 20 ppm.
In case you don't already know it, you have tropical / subtropical fish right now. Both plecos and corydoras are very comfortable at tropical temperatures. Only the goldies like it cool.

 

[dreamermama]

Thanks, everyone! I appreciate all your thoughts.

Somewhat mixed advice, but that doesn't surprise me given the awkwardness of our situation. I will do water changes starting today.

I did actually speak with a couple at church today who have a small backyard pond. They said their goldfish survived winter and have babies. They will take our two big comets whenever we're ready but of course they make no promises. I think something like that would be best, if the fish could be helped with the transition. I don't like them going into the 10 gallon for very long.

Any tips for preparing these goldfish for a big BIG change like that? Any reason to not attempt it?

(Sorry if the pics above don't work out; I'm used to photobucket but not how they're to be posted here)

 

[Darkerwhite2]

5 gallon (I've sinced removed airstone shipwreck to give fish more space--or do they need the oxygen?):
[URL="http/i66.photobucket.com/albums/h255/dre...ng/IMG_5262.jpg"]http/i66.photobucket.com/albums/h255/dre...ng/IMG_5262.jpg[/URL]

Yes they do, but like tolak said by lowering the water level to create more surface movement the more oxygen is being put into the water. As for the other advice, i would agree with doing close to %50 water changes everyday and sadly the goldfish do have to move. As for advice on helping them transition. I think regular new tankmate acclimitization would suffise. When they are ready to be moved of coarse.

Good luck and welcome to TFF and the world of full tanks and empty banks

 

[aquila]

Any reason to not attempt it?

No! Goldfish are pond fish, they are simply not suitable for all but the biggest home aquaria. They will thrive out in the pond, just chuck 'em in, they'll be fine.

 

[dreamermama]

I should probably start a new thread with my last question. I want you to be right, aquila, but I'm not sure you understand that these goldfish have had water around 74 degrees Fehreneheit for seven months now. That's NOT heated, it's just the room temp. in my kitchen where the 5-gallon is located. The pond water, I'm guessing, is outdoor temp or nearly which is fluctuating between 30 and 60 F nowadays.

Thanks for the welcomes.

 

[dreamermama]

I should probably start a new thread with my last question. I want you to be right, aquila, but I'm not sure you understand that these goldfish have had water around 74 degrees Fehreneheit for seven months now. That's NOT heated, it's just the room temp. in my kitchen where the 5-gallon is located. The pond water, I'm guessing, is outdoor temp or nearly which is fluctuating between 30 and 60 F nowadays.

Thanks for the welcomes.

 

[Zincubus]

May I ask the dimensions of your two tanks .

 

[dreamermama]

Zincubus, I didn't see your question until now (and server was inaccessible).... I will try to get the dimensions and post tomorrow or next day. Thanks!