Advice On Stocking A 40L (11Us Gallon?) Tank

[frida]

Hi there!

I would reiterate what Kat said - don't add fish until your cycle is complete, unless you want to go into the fish-in cycle, which is a lot of work because you need to do lots of water changes. And it's probably also stressful on the fish to constantly have the water changed, even if you're able to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels down to 0. What you should learn about the fish keeping hobby is that patience is really a virtue.

But if you're really keen on the fish-in cycle, I would really really recommend you read this: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=224306 , the following being the most important take home message:
"To keep the ammonia and nitrite at an acceptable level, we must water test at least twice a day, and carry out 50% water changes as appropriate, i.e. if any reading for ammonia or nitrite comes out above 0.25." Make sure the water tests are done using a good liquid drop test kit like API's freshwater master kit.

If you decide to go down the more humane way and do fishless cycling, a good way to speed it up is to get some mature media. I'm sure someone would be willing to donate you some on this forum, failing that, it might be worth going to your local fish shop and asking them if they would give you some.

Good luck!!!

 

[Wills]

there isnt really any short cuts for the fishless cycle

what I was saying earlier was that to do a full fishless cycle grows enough bacteria to support a full tank so if you did say half a fishless cycle it would mean you could possibly add a few fish sooner - ie before your partner has to leave.

The honey gourami are a option in this tank and your stock could probably work out as something like

3 Honey Gourami - 1M 2F
3 Platties - 3M - keep just males as you will get issues with too many babies in a tank that small and male platties are not as problematic as guppies or mollies when kept away from the girls.

And then maybe some dwarf catfish for the bottom like pygmy cories.

For now I would start adding 1.75ml of ammonia each day while there are NO fish in the tank do this for 2-3 weeks and measure your ammonia and nitrite levels so long as it is being processed by that stage so you know that you are adding your ammonia in a morning and then by the evening the levels have dropped down to 0 or at least close - then you could possibly add a few fish. I would add 2 or 3 of the platies they come in all sorts of colours

However it is risky like I say but you will have started the cycle fishlessly and I am hoping that the balance between a few fish and the time spent with the fishless cycle will work out okay.

So

Shopping list

1 bottle of pure household ammonia from boots or homebase
1 master test kit from API the liquid drop kits - available from most fish shops and even pets at home

To do list

Set up tank with some decor and water etc
Turn on equipment
Add 1.75ml of ammonia on day one - boots sell/give away little pipettes which are good for measuring this out
day 2 check your ammonia and nitrite with the master test kit and top up the ammonia if needed so that you have a reading
day 3 repeat as above

When you have done this process of adding ammonia and testing the water with the api test kit for 2 weeks see how quickly your ammonia and nitrite are falling and you could be ready for your first fish if not maybe keep up with this process for a week longer.

When you do go to get your fish on the morning that you go to get them do a large water change in your tank and then go to get the fish

I wouldnt normally reccomend this process but I understand why you want to do this with your partner Fish shoping is great together and naming them together is quite special sometimes

Just remember when you have added the fish keep up with the water tests and it might mean that you need to change a few jugs of water some days if you get an ammonia or nitrite reading. But so long as you know how to respond to it no problem

Wills

 

[frida]

there isnt really any short cuts for the fishless cycle

what I was saying earlier was that to do a full fishless cycle grows enough bacteria to support a full tank so if you did say half a fishless cycle it would mean you could possibly add a few fish sooner - ie before your partner has to leave.

The honey gourami are a option in this tank and your stock could probably work out as something like

3 Honey Gourami - 1M 2F
3 Platties - 3M - keep just males as you will get issues with too many babies in a tank that small and male platties are not as problematic as guppies or mollies when kept away from the girls.

And then maybe some dwarf catfish for the bottom like pygmy cories.

For now I would start adding 1.75ml of ammonia each day while there are NO fish in the tank do this for 2-3 weeks and measure your ammonia and nitrite levels so long as it is being processed by that stage so you know that you are adding your ammonia in a morning and then by the evening the levels have dropped down to 0 or at least close - then you could possibly add a few fish. I would add 2 or 3 of the platies they come in all sorts of colours

However it is risky like I say but you will have started the cycle fishlessly and I am hoping that the balance between a few fish and the time spent with the fishless cycle will work out okay.

So

Shopping list

1 bottle of pure household ammonia from boots or homebase
1 master test kit from API the liquid drop kits - available from most fish shops and even pets at home

To do list

Set up tank with some decor and water etc
Turn on equipment
Add 1.75ml of ammonia on day one - boots sell/give away little pipettes which are good for measuring this out
day 2 check your ammonia and nitrite with the master test kit and top up the ammonia if needed so that you have a reading
day 3 repeat as above

When you have done this process of adding ammonia and testing the water with the api test kit for 2 weeks see how quickly your ammonia and nitrite are falling and you could be ready for your first fish if not maybe keep up with this process for a week longer.

When you do go to get your fish on the morning that you go to get them do a large water change in your tank and then go to get the fish

I wouldnt normally reccomend this process but I understand why you want to do this with your partner Fish shoping is great together and naming them together is quite special sometimes

Just remember when you have added the fish keep up with the water tests and it might mean that you need to change a few jugs of water some days if you get an ammonia or nitrite reading. But so long as you know how to respond to it no problem

Wills

Just wanted to say: I think Wills has found a fantastic compromise - hopefully it will work out!!

 

[birdhouse]

thanks for the replies... ive just been up to the aquatic design center again and had a chat with them about stocking/cycling etc.

ive got a 50watt heater (with a guard), some tablets for my plants, a test kit which i think ill take back and some bio filter stuff (which was cheap) and a sample food packet. they advised to drop in the filter liquid and sprinkle a little bit of crushed up food and then leave it a week and measure the nitrates. seems plausible? the test kit is a tetra test no2 nitrite test kit which unfortunately doesnt have the instructions so ill need to take it back anyway - ill see if they have the api kit you've reccomended. i would like to test the ph value of my tank etc.

i think stocking wise we're going to go with :

3 honey gourami (1M, 2F) - possible sparkling (big fish)
6-8 White cloud mountain minnows or tetras (little fish)
5-6 pygmy catfish or possibly the oto's that kat suggested earlier if the water condition is good (catfish!)
possibly one betta if the tank is not overcrowded

for the order : the little fish once the tank has cycled a little, probably 6. then the gouramis after a couple of weeks, then the catfish a couple of weeks after that and then .. we'll see how happy they look

 

[frida]

Hi again!

Isn't the aquatic design centre really lovely? The marine section is fabulous!!

Anyway, I think you'll find that it's probably going to be quicker (and easier to control) to use pure ammonia (the one from Boots or Homebase is what people usually use - it just needs to be ammonia and nothing else) than the crushed up food to start the fishless cycle. The problem with the food is that you need that to break down into ammonia and it's very hard to predict how much of it you need. Also, it's probably going to smell worse than just dosing the ammonia.

As for the test kit: no good that it hasn't got instructions but I think most liquid kits are fairly reliable and I think that goes for the tetra one too. But you'll need more than just the NO2 (nitrite) test kit that you got though. To start with you should get a kit to test: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH.

Stocking-wise, I'll let the more experienced people comment on it. But one thing I will say is that I think bettas and gouramis don't do well together. There might be aggressivity, especially in a tank your size

thanks for the replies... ive just been up to the aquatic design center again and had a chat with them about stocking/cycling etc.

ive got a 50watt heater (with a guard), some tablets for my plants, a test kit which i think ill take back and some bio filter stuff (which was cheap) and a sample food packet. they advised to drop in the filter liquid and sprinkle a little bit of crushed up food and then leave it a week and measure the nitrates. seems plausible? the test kit is a tetra test no2 nitrite test kit which unfortunately doesnt have the instructions so ill need to take it back anyway - ill see if they have the api kit you've reccomended. i would like to test the ph value of my tank etc.

i think stocking wise we're going to go with :

3 honey gourami (1M, 2F) - possible sparkling (big fish)
6-8 White cloud mountain minnows or tetras (little fish)
5-6 pygmy catfish or possibly the oto's that kat suggested earlier if the water condition is good (catfish!)
possibly one betta if the tank is not overcrowded

for the order : the little fish once the tank has cycled a little, probably 6. then the gouramis after a couple of weeks, then the catfish a couple of weeks after that and then .. we'll see how happy they look

 

[Wills]

Yeah gourami and bettas are a no no so I would consider them an either/or type set up between them but other than that it sounds pretty good to me

The process that the fish shop has suggested will land you in whats called a fish in cycle which is where you have to do lots of water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite down.

This is nothing against the aquatic design center as it is a very good shop, but the advice that they have given you is the standard all over the country. No shop will ever tell you about the fishless cycle for neumerous reasons but the most common is simply if you told every customer add a little of this chemical to your tank every day for 6 weeks then add fish they would not make any money because people would just walk out the shop.

All I am saying is its upto you how you do it but if you do it via the shops method the tank could be become problematic certainly for the first few weeks if not longer.

Wills

 

[KittyKat]

ive just been up to the aquatic design center again and had a chat with them about stocking/cycling etc.

I hope you came across someone helpful/who knows what they're doing, most of the people I used to work with were good, but there were a few I wouldn't trust fish to too!

ive got a 50watt heater (with a guard), some tablets for my plants, a test kit which i think ill take back and some bio filter stuff (which was cheap) and a sample food packet. they advised to drop in the filter liquid and sprinkle a little bit of crushed up food and then leave it a week and measure the nitrates. seems plausible? the test kit is a tetra test no2 nitrite test kit which unfortunately doesnt have the instructions so ill need to take it back anyway - ill see if they have the api kit you've reccomended. i would like to test the ph value of my tank etc.

You probably won't need the fertiliser for a while yet. The "bio" stuff most of the time doesn't work, so you can try it, but don't hold out hope.. having said that, I have seen some anaerobic bacteria for sale in sealed capsules which might very well be effective.
Get some ammonia, the food flake way is possible, but too much bother (see reply above).

i think stocking wise we're going to go with :

3 honey gourami (1M, 2F) - possible sparkling (big fish)
6-8 White cloud mountain minnows or tetras (little fish)
5-6 pygmy catfish or possibly the oto's that kat suggested earlier if the water condition is good (catfish!)
possibly one betta if the tank is not overcrowded

for the order : the little fish once the tank has cycled a little, probably 6. then the gouramis after a couple of weeks, then the catfish a couple of weeks after that and then .. we'll see how happy they look

Hmm, ok.. I still think WCMM should only go into a coolwater setup, while the Honey Gouramis into a tropical and make different choices in the species, but I have seen it work the way you suggest. I recommend the following stocking after the tank is ready:
* Week 1: 3 little fish
* Week 2: 3 little fish
* Week 4: 3 big fish
* Week 8: 3 bottom dwellers
* Week 9: 3 bottom dwellers

I think that is really the maximum stocking you can have and would not get a Betta because it would be sharing a territory with the Honey Gouramis (who are quite capable of beating it up).

 

[birdhouse]

hi frida,

yes i really enjoyed having a browse around - they have an astonishing pair of giant gourami downstairs at the minute and some great marine fish amongst other things. ill try and get some ammonia this week and drop a little in as wills suggested. i know the general consensus is that the bottled stuff isnt that great but it has ok reviews on the net and it cant hurt to try.

i think ill skip the betta as i would like to avoid any agressive fish. my partner loves fish with long fins but i would rather have a nice little community of fish.

ill try and see if i can return the kit and get the complete one

cheers

edit : thanks for the replies wills and kat. i think i'll try dumping the bio stuff in and some ammonia and monitor it for a week and then post the results.

kat : i'll avoid the white clouds - suggestions for a nice bright tetra or danio would be good

cheers

 

[KittyKat]

Neons, Cardinals, Serpae, Rummy Nose are are all staple fish, my favourite of course, is Harlequin Rasbora (so not a tetra at all). Neons from poor stock can sometimes be problematic, I have never had/heard of consistent problems with any of the others

 

[birdhouse]

i think its between the galaxy rasboras, glow light tetras or possibly the black tetras.

would a pair of gourami be as happy as 1 male and 2 females? to help accomodate the slightly larger tetras. ive seen some gorgeous emperor tetras online but our tank isnt big enough for them

i also like the endlers livebearer - a i like the vivid green/orange and the shape of them a lot.

are there any other small fish with a vivid green or violet colouring you can think of?

cheers

 

[KittyKat]

I personally prefer to avoid Galaxy Rasboras as a protest against how their biotope was treated only a few years ago when they were first found. Nowadays, I think all or almost all available are captive bred, so that's not really relevant any more, of course.

The male Gouramis can get quite stroppy, so I would recommend 1m 2f over 1m 1f.

Aye, Emperors get too large.

Endlers would also be good, a group of 6 males would work well.

What about Paracheirodon simulans? Green neons, a bit hard to get hold of, but I have had good experience with them. I have even on occasion seen them mixed in with plain common neons. Or what about Boehlkea fredcochui the blue tetra? They do need a good diet to show their colour at their best. Also the temperature of the light will affect how the fish look in the tank.

 

[Carlovel1]

hi frida,

yes i really enjoyed having a browse around - they have an astonishing pair of giant gourami downstairs at the minute and some great marine fish amongst other things. ill try and get some ammonia this week and drop a little in as wills suggested. i know the general consensus is that the bottled stuff isnt that great but it has ok reviews on the net and it cant hurt to try.

i think ill skip the betta as i would like to avoid any agressive fish. my partner loves fish with long fins but i would rather have a nice little community of fish.

ill try and see if i can return the kit and get the complete one

cheers

edit : thanks for the replies wills and kat. i think i'll try dumping the bio stuff in and some ammonia and monitor it for a week and then post the results.

kat : i'll avoid the white clouds - suggestions for a nice bright tetra or danio would be good

cheers

Hiya, I think that you would like Glowlight Danio. I know Aquatic Design Centre have a huge amount of Glowlight DAnio for £1.60 each. They are def worth a look and they are excellent candidates for a new tank.
CArl

 

[birdhouse]

hi carl, thanks for the advice and ill have a look at the tetras you suggested kat.

i think glowlight tetras or danios would be nice with the strong greens we have in the plants - unfortunately we have a few snails that came in with the last one. will the fish eat them or should i try and get rid of them?

cheers

 

[KittyKat]

I say a small number of snails is great! If they get out of control, that can be a sign of another problem in the tank (for example overfeeding) so they are useful to have around. The only ones I don't like are Ramshorns because they will sometimes breed out of control for no reason at all.