Advice On Adding Co2?

[KevJ87]

Hello guys, 
 
I just setup another 29 gallon tank and I am finally making use of live plants in aquariums.
 
I picked up some Anubis / Sword / and one I can't figure out what it is ( no name attached at store )
 
the unknown and sword are very large 12-14 inch long. The anubis is pretty small and I have a baby sword as well.
 
I have 2 fluro bulbs only t8   20 watts each, but with reflectors to intensify the light.
 
I have read so many guides on plants and I am getting two different sides.
One side says, no co2 since low lighting and they will be fine just grow slowly
Other side says, yes co2 can't hurt only help.
 
So I built a DIY co2 setup but confused on whether I should use it.
I plan on having some cichlids in the tank.
 
Can a home made DIY co2 cause problems if the lighting level is only low?
I plan on running the co2 for around 10 hours a day and the rest run an airstone  ( at night )
 
 
Here is the tank  ( Not finished and not set location for plants yet ) 
https/imageshack.com/i/iqzIZ7vij
 
Any one know what the unknown plant is? I was wondering if i could wrap those swiggly parts around a rock build.

 

[KevJ87]

Anyone? I really am unsure

 

[DreamertK]

If it's low lighting then its more unnecessary than hazardous. Of course there's a few potential problems of CO2 no matter what you do: 1) overdosing (especially if the plants are not utilizing it), 2) contraption explodes. I assume you're doing the extinguisher method rather than the bottles, if you can turn it on and off?

 

[DreamertK]

3) PH dangers, it's possible if you have soft water to have a crash in PH and kill your fish with a CO2 system.

 

[KevJ87]

I have extremly high PH so it would actually help me a lot rather than adding driftwood which releases SO many tannins regardless of how long i boil or let it soak for, I have tried multiple pieces from stores.
 
I am using the bottle method, but I set it up so that there is a tee valve, so after 10 hours of CO2 i turn the little valve and the co2 now dissipates into the room instead of the tank.
 
So do you suggest I use the co2, since it really can't harm anything ? (I doubt a home made bottle setup will over poison the fish )
Any suggestions if I do use the co2? Someone said if I add co2 I need to fertilize the plants to match the co2?

 

[SO19Firearms]

As there's no magic formula nowadays there's two answers -
 
Yes - Run CO2.
That will let you have a little extra light one way or another and provided you give the plants enough food you'll get faster growth.
However if something is off such as not enough nutrients, poor flow etc - the poop will hit the fan that bit quicker.......
 
No - Don't run CO2
This leaves less room for more light - if you have too much you'll get algae as the plants fail - But provided you make sure you keep the lighting low and you have enough nutrients you'll have time to respond to problems.
 
The answer to the 2 questions that raises -
How much light is too much - Dunno, start with 2 bulbs, no reflectors 6hrs and work up from there.....
 
Do my plants need CO2 - Yes, but if you use low light they're undemanding enough to take it out of your water, if you use high light the swords (IMO) are lare enough for them to want CO2 added......
 
 
 
IMO

 

[KevJ87]

I have low lighting its a 29 gallon tank and only 40 watts of light so its not even 2 watts per gallon, however I have 2 sections and layers of reflectors and by measuring the light ( friend did it somehow with this weird reflector dish 2 days ago ) apparently the 40 watts become around 62 watts with all the reflectors/directional focus.
 
That brings it to around 2 watts per gallon ( low level lighting ) so is there any point to adding a home made co2 system? I figured it could help but not hurt?

 

[SO19Firearms]

I personally don't like home made CO2 - Too much chance of fluctuation which will probably induce algae.
 
Watts per gallon doesn't mean anything either unfortunately
 
 
IMO

 

[KevJ87]

I thought / read / watched from so many sources that watts per gallon was like the holy grail of lighting and understanding it? Heh, so what do I worry about if not watts, just the color spectrum outside of green?
 
My final deicison is to add the co2 only while it is fishless just to help establish the plants since the transfer than once the tank is cycled remove the co2 and add the fish since the root system should be good and healthy by than you think that is a good trade off?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Cycling with plants will change things. Have you planted the anubias rhizome in the substrate? if so it will rot and the plant will die. Roots in it are fine but not the rhizome.
 
With good reflectors your tank is not low light, it borders being a moderately lighted tank. Be careful adding ammonia to cycle it. For one if you follow the directions here i suggest you reduce the amount of the primary ammonia dose to 2 ppm max and the snack dose accordingly. The biggest danger with adding ammonia to a tank with plants is algae. This can be avoided with not overdoing the light and selective blackouts. bear in mind the plants can use ammonia readily. So this changes all the test numbers, they should not go as high as they would without plants. In any case the sword would like some time to settle into the substrate before you start thinking about any cycling.
 
If you tripled the plant load in your tank the odds are decent you could simply add fish gradually as in a fish in cycle and be just fine. But if you are still planning un pulling things up and moving them around and adding more plants, they need time to settle in the tank before you consider any need for cycling.
 
I would only bother with co2 gas addition if you plan to do it full time. I will say the best advice I ever got in this respect was: "If you can afford to go pressurized, do so." You do have the option to supplement a liquid carbon rather than DIY when not playing with the more demanding plants.

 

[KevJ87]

Thanks so much for that information I had no idea with with the anub, I will remove it from the sand right away. Right now I just purchased a house with fiance so I am kind of on a budget this year so pressurized is going to have to wait, but you said about running co2 full time does that mean day and night? I have been reading that dissipating the co2 over night into the room is better due to build up over night and what not or do you suggest just turning on an air stone to match the co2 over night?

 

[KevJ87]

I finished building my DIY co2 system, and I went with two 2 litter bottles only to keep the PPM of the co2 consistent and stop it from fluctuating so badly.
 
If you have 1 bottle it slowly starts up at 0 ppm , than a few days 10 ppm , few more days 20 ppm, and finally 30 ppm the goal but than it immediatly tops out and starts to decline its like a rainbow shape, so by using 2 bottles I will start the second bottle 7 days after the first so when the first bottle is declining the second is just reaching 30 ppm, it allows me to spend less time bellow 20 and less fluctuating for algae. 

 

[DreamertK]

If you don't fertilize more and add another light, then there is not much point in adding the CO2, since the plants wont utilize it. CO2 poisoning does happen, especially since it's difficult to control how much CO2 it's pumping out.
 
It's like throwing an extra variable in a problem that didn't need to be solved.

 

[KevJ87]

I have root fertilizer in the sand, I have been reading this Physical Paper published by Dr. Tom Johnson who did a 6 year long study on aquatic plant growth it is INCREDIBLY interesting, I am thinking of scanning it and uploading it since I have not found a copy online.
 
I had no idea that some plants can actually produce different medications when subjected to water parameters.
 
With that being said, he said the myth of the pyramid (co2 / fertilizer / light) has long been mis understood and thoughts have long remained that you can't have 1 or 2 of these and expect changes without adding the 3rd. He said that over 6 years he has seen adding co2 to an incredibly low light enviornment still enhanced the growth and that growing with just fertilizer and barely any light also worked with zero co2 injections.
 
I am thinking that after reading this paper I am going to add the co2 since with this paper and with many people posting videos on youtube they claim co2 injections helped even while maintaining low lighting.
 
If anyone can locate this paper online please let me know, I really want to scan and upload it but I am not sure if I have that right since its not my paper. I found it in our library here in Boston.
 
Dr Tom H. Johnson   (( A Truth Study Of Aquatic Plants ))   ((2006-2012)) is the paper.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

You need to provide more info to find the study. For one I think you have the title wrong- it is poor grammar. It should likely read T true study? But where did you find it in terms of the name of the publication? And published papers or books do not have a date range, the have a specific single date for publication. The period over which the study was done  does not help in locating it.
 
However, with planted tanks using varieties that do not need require co2 supplementation to even survive in an aquarium, the low light tanks, it is simple. You do not have to have added co2 for it to be fine. That said, adding co2 will make it even finer.
 
I have run between 8 and 10 planted tanks for years. One was high light and I added pressurized co2. All the rest were not. Most were low light. I never added co2 to any of them. I do dose Flourish Excel with water changes in all the tanks save the co2 added one. All the low light and most of the moderate light tanks did just fine without adding co2 gas to the water.
 
Personally, I dislike DIY co2 and have never used it. It is uneven, lots of work and generally a PITA, as well as messy imo. So I would not bother in lower light tanks. The plants can usually get enough needed co2 from the water w/o it being supplemented.
 
What I do know is if one does not have a reasonable balance between the needs of the plants and the amount of light, nutrients and co2, the thing that will do best is algae.