Advice Needed

[justjon]

IMO the biORBS are horrible, I had one a few years ago and although it looked allright, it was an utter nightmare to clean the filtration system etc, you HAD to pull the undergravel filter up, filling the tank with horrible amounts of gunk, which i'd say isn't great for the fish.

Thanks for the info, good to get point of view from a previous BiOrb owner! Doesn't sound like a very good buy I have to say. As a beginner it's difficult to know where to start. I've got a limited space, are there any tanks that you would recommend? (the easier to keep the better for a start!). I want to keep a good variety of fish and so think a 30l may be too small, what do you think?

No problem

30L would restrict you for variety, how many different fish are you after? I keep shrimp myself aswell, they are great to watch and don't stress the bioload too too much.

Can you go up to a 60-70L ? Is it for a corner, and how much width, height, and depth space do you have? (CM)?

 

[Herman17]

IMO the biORBS are horrible, I had one a few years ago and although it looked allright, it was an utter nightmare to clean the filtration system etc, you HAD to pull the undergravel filter up, filling the tank with horrible amounts of gunk, which i'd say isn't great for the fish.

Thanks for the info, good to get point of view from a previous BiOrb owner! Doesn't sound like a very good buy I have to say. As a beginner it's difficult to know where to start. I've got a limited space, are there any tanks that you would recommend? (the easier to keep the better for a start!). I want to keep a good variety of fish and so think a 30l may be too small, what do you think?

No problem

30L would restrict you for variety, how many different fish are you after? I keep shrimp myself aswell, they are great to watch and don't stress the bioload too too much.

Can you go up to a 60-70L ? Is it for a corner, and how much width, height, and depth space do you have? (CM)?

My unit is 40cm deep and 60cm approx wide, no height restriction, it's not in a corner.

I've seen the shrimp and thought they would be a good addition, seeing as I've gone off the Orb idea I guess I could have some now? I love angel fish (yet another reason not to get a biorb), guppies, golden barbs, platys and red swordtails to name a few, not to mension the lovely neon tetra. I want to do as much research as possible prior to setting my heart on anything particular as I would hate to stock my tank and the fish not thrive.

I don't know if this counts as modern/unusual enough for you, but have you considered a hexagon shaped aquarium? You would be able to fit a 10 or 20 USG (~38L and ~75L) Hex aquarium in that space fairly easily, and you would have freedom to choose whatever equipment you wanted to use as well as significantly more space for whatever sort of fish you wanted.

Unsure on this one, but what do you think to the flat back hex tanks?

 

[Curiosity101]

Hmm, if you want angels you are going to need either a big tank, or a small tank that is specifically tall.

Good news, most 60l rectangular tanks are around a 30cm x 60cm footprint

But if you want sleek.... that's a bit harder. I'll go have a look. Minimum height for an angel tank (after substrate) really is 15" with 18" being preferable as they're such tall fish and obviously you wont want them being stunted. So you're looking at a tank of around 45cm tall realistically unless you are putting practically no substrate in...

 

[Curiosity101]

Unsure on this one, but what do you think to the flat back hex tanks?

As long as they're large enough volume wise and have plenty of turning space personally I'd say they make great angel tanks.

And I know you'd like something sleek looking, but with not too much effort you can create some really stunning looking tanks by just putting some thought into whats going into it...plants (can get some reeeeaaally nice looking fake ones if you don't fancy maintaining live), decor (Keep it natural with woods n rock... or fake wood n rock) and keep the substrate something more 'natural' ie. sand... or natural coloured gravels like browns n blacks.

Check these out... and they're just plain rectangular glass tanks
Link to some fantastic tanks

 

[Curiosity101]

If the cabinet happens to actually be 62cm rather than 60cm wide then the aqua one aqua style 620 would suit your space and fish wants very nicely.

62cm x 40cm x 52cm = length x width x height
130l and absolutely perfect for angels. Real real shame.

 

[Curiosity101]

Fluval roma 90 is a great tank. I had it's bigger brother the roma 125 and was very happy with the build quality and overall look of the tank.

60cm x 35cm x 70cm , perfect for angels and at 90l gives you lots of stocking options. Only buy it if you're around 5'6" though and/or have a stool handy. I struggled to reach the bottom of my roma 125 at 5'3"

 

[Herman17]

Hmm, if you want angels you are going to need either a big tank, or a small tank that is specifically tall.

Good news, most 60l rectangular tanks are around a 30cm x 60cm footprint

But if you want sleek.... that's a bit harder. I'll go have a look. Minimum height for an angel tank (after substrate) really is 15" with 18" being preferable as they're such tall fish and obviously you wont want them being stunted. So you're looking at a tank of around 45cm tall realistically unless you are putting practically no substrate in...

45cm wouldn't be a problem, thanks for looking onto this for me. I've always liked angel fish but knew they needed plenty of room, glad I can accomodate! (Other half is looking a little concerned but as I've said, if we're going to get a tank it's best to get one the right size first time around )A friend at work has told me she has a Biube abd has had angel fish in there for 3 years!!! How can this be good for the fish? I'm shocked that they have lived for so long!

You'll be pleased to know I am definately not getting a biorb, biube or fluval as tbh they seem pretty pointless. I have been converted!

 

[Ceramicbull]

I've never kept Angelfish so all I know is that they need a fairly deep tank and will eat just about anything they can get their mouth around (no neon tetras with them, for certain). Angels get to about 6in long (and taller than that) so you won't have too much room to keep other fish after that. Angels CAN live in smaller conditions, but they will be stunted; part of that whole "Survive vs. Thrive" thing. Otherwise:

Guppies/Platys/Swordtails: All livebearing fish and fairly easy to stock and take care of. Pretty hardy and tolerant of water conditions. They don't need to shoal. As long as you keep the ratio of males to females at 1m:2+f they should all get along great. They WILL produce fry (perhaps even if you have no males, since they can save genetic material for later) so you'll need to have a plan for getting rid of them. (your LFS will probably take them, just ask.) I'm not sure but I think if you have all male guppies they do get along, but again ask someone who's kept them. If you DO want to breed livebearers, be warned that platys and Swordtails can interbreed (Plordtails?). Fancy guppies (the ones with the huge colorful tails) are slow swimmers and may get their fins nipped, so make sure you avoid tankmates with a fin-nipping reputation if you get them. If you try livebearers with angels, the adults should get along fine, but the fry will be consumed.

Gold Barbs: A few warnings, but nothing too tough. They'll need to be in a shoal, and they're "subtropical" which means you'll want to keep the heater lower than the standard 78F. They're fairly tolerant of water conditions, but prefer acidic. Because they need to be in a shoal of at least 5, they'll take up a fair chunk of space. Otherwise my quick google search (again, i have not kept these) says they're peaceful and easy to take care of.

Neon Tetras: These have a history of being more difficult to keep than advertised. They aren't very tolerant of hard or basic water, and also do not acclimate quickly to changes in water condition. Captive bred fish tend to do better in this regard, but some neon breeders are not very responsible, so the quality of fish available varies quite a bit. They will need to shoal, but at least they are smaller than the barb. Angelfish are natural predators of Neon Tetras, so clearly that is not a good idea. There is even a "Neon Tetra disease" which is uncurable, so a quarantine tank (and avoid live food) would be a very good idea if you want to keep them. I don't mean to tell you to never buy Neon Tetras, but just to warn you that they aren't really the best beginner fish.

 

[Curiosity101]

Is the space definitely 60cm then? Or is there a cm or two either side?

If not, and if you particularly fancy angels then I would completely recommend the fluval roma 90 as a good tank for you (so long as you can reach the bottom! lol). I am a firm fan of fluval equipment, well designed, well built, good price.

You might also like the aquamode 600, but with such a curved front it distorts the fish which personally I don't like. And it's only 60l so I'd be hesitant to put an angel in there. I'd always go with 20gal min for an angel.

Aqua One AR510 - 75l

Aqua One AquaStart CR500 - 65l

These plus any previous ones are the 'biggest' and 'best' for your available space. Obviously there are plenty of smaller ones that are nice looking (arcadia arc 35l for example) and smaller ones such as the elite 60 tanks which tbh don't quite have the best build quality or look... but certainly do the job. Gotta watch the elite range though cause they come with stringray filters which I personally hate. I don't like their 'design' and equally don't like their performance.

 

[Herman17]

Is the space definitely 60cm then? Or is there a cm or two either side?

If not, and if you particularly fancy angels then I would completely recommend the fluval roma 90 as a good tank for you (so long as you can reach the bottom! lol). I am a firm fan of fluval equipment, well designed, well built, good price.

You might also like the aquamode 600, but with such a curved front it distorts the fish which personally I don't like. And it's only 60l so I'd be hesitant to put an angel in there. I'd always go with 20gal min for an angel.

Aqua One AR510 - 75l

Aqua One AquaStart CR500 - 65l

These plus any previous ones are the 'biggest' and 'best' for your available space. Obviously there are plenty of smaller ones that are nice looking (arcadia arc 35l for example) and smaller ones such as the elite 60 tanks which tbh don't quite have the best build quality or look... but certainly do the job. Gotta watch the elite range though cause they come with stringray filters which I personally hate. I don't like their 'design' and equally don't like their performance.

60cm's the max

I reckon I'm probably going to go for a 60l as I'm getting a bit scared by these bigger ones! (Am 5'5" and I think I might struggle!) Plus, how much do these things weigh as I'm not sure the sideboard would take it. If 60l is too small for Angels I'll have to stick to the smaller types, I don't want to stunt them.

I'll have a look at tanks when I get home and come up with a short list and then see what you all think.

Really grateful for all your help, goodness knows I need it!

 

[Herman17]

I've never kept Angelfish so all I know is that they need a fairly deep tank and will eat just about anything they can get their mouth around (no neon tetras with them, for certain). Angels get to about 6in long (and taller than that) so you won't have too much room to keep other fish after that. Angels CAN live in smaller conditions, but they will be stunted; part of that whole "Survive vs. Thrive" thing. Otherwise:

Guppies/Platys/Swordtails: All livebearing fish and fairly easy to stock and take care of. Pretty hardy and tolerant of water conditions. They don't need to shoal. As long as you keep the ratio of males to females at 1m:2+f they should all get along great. They WILL produce fry (perhaps even if you have no males, since they can save genetic material for later) so you'll need to have a plan for getting rid of them. (your LFS will probably take them, just ask.) I'm not sure but I think if you have all male guppies they do get along, but again ask someone who's kept them. If you DO want to breed livebearers, be warned that platys and Swordtails can interbreed (Plordtails?). Fancy guppies (the ones with the huge colorful tails) are slow swimmers and may get their fins nipped, so make sure you avoid tankmates with a fin-nipping reputation if you get them. If you try livebearers with angels, the adults should get along fine, but the fry will be consumed.

Gold Barbs: A few warnings, but nothing too tough. They'll need to be in a shoal, and they're "subtropical" which means you'll want to keep the heater lower than the standard 78F. They're fairly tolerant of water conditions, but prefer acidic. Because they need to be in a shoal of at least 5, they'll take up a fair chunk of space. Otherwise my quick google search (again, i have not kept these) says they're peaceful and easy to take care of.

Neon Tetras: These have a history of being more difficult to keep than advertised. They aren't very tolerant of hard or basic water, and also do not acclimate quickly to changes in water condition. Captive bred fish tend to do better in this regard, but some neon breeders are not very responsible, so the quality of fish available varies quite a bit. They will need to shoal, but at least they are smaller than the barb. Angelfish are natural predators of Neon Tetras, so clearly that is not a good idea. There is even a "Neon Tetra disease" which is uncurable, so a quarantine tank (and avoid live food) would be a very good idea if you want to keep them. I don't mean to tell you to never buy Neon Tetras, but just to warn you that they aren't really the best beginner fish.

Thannks so much for all the information! It's really helpful. I'm thinking of only getting a 60l tank so maybe not beg enough for Angels anyway. The rest of teh above should be fine though hey? I'm really surprised at the Neons, I assumed they would be easy to keep. If I get any I'll make sure I get them from a reputable retailer. Are there any signs to look out for re the neon tetra disease?

 

[Curiosity101]

An average rectangular 60l tank will often weigh around 75kg (60l of water = 60kg and the tank if often around 15kg).
I wouldn't be happy putting an angel in any 60l tank even if it were tall enough, cause to compensate for height it'd have to be very short giving very little horizontal room.

Don't be scared to get a larger tank, anything from 60 - 120l is pretty much as easy to maintain as each other. Anything below 60l tends to become slightly harder to manage, plus it starts to really really limit your stocking possibilities.

As for your stocking options, I certainly wouldn't put gold barbs in a 60l, I had them in my 125 and before they were fully grown I still felt the tank wasn't big enough for them. They're foracious eaters and grow to 8cm each. Apart from anything else they're a shoaling species, so really to have a 'balanced' looking tank you'd want your centerpiece fish to be significantly larger than them. .. but again a centerpiece fish big enough to balance them out would be too big for a 60l tank.
Each to there own with what they enjoy looking at in a tank, it's just something to think about.

Also I wouldn't consider male swordtails or sailfin mollys as possibilities as they grow rather large.

But there are definitely plenty of options for a 60l tank

 

[Curiosity101]

Oh and the neons should be ok, just don't use them as part of a fish-in cycle. And equally try to avoid adding them as the first fish at the end of a fishless cycle.

 

[Ceramicbull]

Yeah, its not that neons are a hard fish, per se (lots of fish are more difficult to keep), but they are fairly fragile and it's good to be careful with them. With a bit of caution you should be fine. Try to find captive bred, and the best LFS available. You might also look into Black Neon Tetras, which actually aren't closely related to the Neon at all. While you will still probably want to add them last, they sound a bit tougher than the regular neon (and just as pretty). Since they aren't related I don't think you'd have to worry about "Neon Tetra disease" at all.

Honestly, if this is your first tank, larger is better. With the additional space, you will have a greater reaction time than a small tank if something goes wrong. ("The solution to pollution is dilution!") Generally that makes them easier to maintain, and equipment shouldn't be dramatically more expensive. Also, you will get to keep more fish, which is always good. Sure, you may have to haul more water during changes, but you will have to do it less frequently.

As far as livebearers, I don't think he mentioned mollies but yeah, Sailfins get humongous. Mollies are as good as any other livebearer otherwise though (they can interbreed with guppies). I've never had swordtails but I think you might be able to keep one, and only one, male swordtail, depending on the dimensions: they can get up to 4 inches (10cm) long. Therefore, he might make a decent "centerpiece" fish.