Adopting a stocked tank!

[IndiaHawker]

This is all really useful, thanks so much for your help! I really appreciate the time you've taken to help me ensure my fish are as happy and healthy as possible.

They're now home and in situe! So far the only things that have arrived are the fishing line for anchoring things when the need arises, two things to cover the filter outlets which turned out it already has anyway, and the sand. I was pleased that the sand came so quickly, my thoughts being that I could get the sand in before the fish so I could avoid having to disturb the fish again - however clearly my judgement of weights isn't too great as I got a pretty pitiful amount and will need to re-order more. I've covered the entire base with a thin layer of sand for rooting in the plants, and covered about 2/3 - 3/4 of the tank surface in the pebbles that were in it before as there was barely any sand. I've managed to leave a patch of just sand though so the Cory at least has access to it. I will likely wait till the end of the month to order more sand, partly because I've really maxed out my budget this month and partly to allow the fish some time to get comfortable.

Despite doing all the research I could think to do in advance, I ended up panicking a little and having to do some things very improvised. As I said I've never owned a tank of my own before - the ones that were 'mine' when I was a kid were looked after by my mum - who was home at the time, however was at the time tending to/trying desperately to feed a baby swift that fell out of the nest in our roof - different story altogether there!

So I'd say there was about 50% of the original water left in the tank, and the rest I used tap water - didn't have anything on hand to measure the litres of tap water but I believe I made a relatively accurate judgement of how many litres I was adding to the tank at a time so based on the instructions I believe I've used roughly the right amount of tap water conditioner. Had to keep adding more and more buckets of water to top the tank up and just kept adding what I think was the right amount of conditioner each time, mixing it in with the bucket of water first. Is it better to use too much conditioner, or not enough? Also I don't know the hardness of the water in my area but the tank has come with a load of test kits so I can hopefully find out now. The other thing I'm worried about is the temperature - the fish were bagged for probably a couple of hours in total, with the tank turned off. I realised too late that I was clueless about how to judge the temp. of the water I was putting in the tank - originally I filled up a bucket with cold water and then realised immediately that it would be way too cold then, so I just added warm water to the best of my judgement based on how warm the water in the tank felt originally, before adding the conditioner. I really hope that's okay to do - so far the fish seem about as content as possible to the best of my judgement, seem to be swimming about and looking around. The rasboras' colouring looked quite pale when they were in the bag, before going into the tank - is this due to lack of oxygen/stress from being bagged, or just the way they look under different lighting? Also I washed off the sand in tap water before putting in the tank - drained off most of the remaining water anyway but a little worried even though I've obviously added the conditioner to the added water.

My next step is a good clean - planning on doing that later today, will let the fish get a bit more comfortable and then do my best to figure out how to clean this filter - all I know is that it's filthy, we looked in the back before moving it and there was a load of algae/waste build-up If anyone can advise me/has any good videos on how to clean out the back section of the Fluval Flex, that would be really helpful!

I've attached a picture of it how it currently is - didn't get chance to take a 'before' photo as in before we moved it, but it looks pretty similar - as I said I'm still waiting for my plants to come, and I've now ordered a floating plant as well, and waiting for my driftwood - so currently, the only things that have changed is the pitiful layer of sand (you can see the small sandy patch to the right of the foreground), and a slight rearrangement - one plant I removed because there were virtually no leaves left on it, but the rest I've kept. As you can see it's a kind of sad-looking little environment at the moment - but this will be changing!

 

[Byron]

Is it better to use too much conditioner, or not enough?

You want sufficient conditioner for the volume of fresh tap water being added, but not more. Most if not all conditioners will tell you that overdosing is not harmful...wrong. The fish will not die from too much conditioner, but that does not mean excess chemicals getting inside the fish is a good thing, it certainly is not good. Every substance we add to the tank water gets inside the fish, into the bloodstream and internal organs. Keeping this at absolute minimum is always wise.

I don't know the conditioner you have, but here too you only want one that does what you need, nothing more if at all possible. Most will dechlorinate, and most also deal with chloramine if that happens to bee used in your city's water. Many also detoxify heavy metals which cannot hurt [I'll come back to this]. There are a couple that also detoxify ammonia, two that also detoxify nitrite, and one also nitrate [so far as I know, there may be new products doing some of these now]. Unless you have ammonia, nitrite or nitrate in the source (tap) water, there is absolutely no need to be using a conditioner that detoxifies them; this is only messing around with the natural water chemistry and that is best left to nature. Some conditioners will add other substances; aloe vera is one. These can bee very dangerous...there is absolutely no evidence that aloe vera added to the water is in any way beneficial, quite the opposite...studies show prolonged use can cause gill damage. Read thee label and select a conditioner based on your water. I use API Tap Water Conditioner, and in my personal view this is the absolute best conditioner available. It takes very little, one drop treats a gallon (chlorine) or two drops for chloramine as well. It detoxifies heavy metals. But that is all it does. It is highly concentrated so you use much less and it lasts a long time (don't buy too large a bottle) so while it may seem more expensive by quantity, the long use means it actually works out much less expensive.

On the heavy metals issue...most of these are also plant nutrients: iron, copper, zinc, manganese. So wait 24 hours before using a plant fertilizer if you do use one, after the water change. A conditioner that detoxifies heavy metals will negate these metals in a liquid plant fertilizer so there is no point in wasting it. I use Flourish Comprehensive Supplement, and I add it the day after the water change.

The other thing I'm worried about is the temperature - the fish were bagged for probably a couple of hours in total, with the tank turned off. I realised too late that I was clueless about how to judge the temp. of the water I was putting in the tank - originally I filled up a bucket with cold water and then realised immediately that it would be way too cold then, so I just added warm water to the best of my judgement based on how warm the water in the tank felt originally, before adding the conditioner. I really hope that's okay to do - so far the fish seem about as content as possible to the best of my judgement, seem to be swimming about and looking around.

When moving fish into a new tank it is best to have the tank just a tad warmer (as opposed to cooler) than the water they are now in. Increased temperature is less stressful on fish in this situation. Water changes are different; here it is best to add water that is just a tad cooler. This stimulates most tropical fish, often resulting in spawning. Don't be extreme, I use my hand to test temp and when I have used a thermometer to see the difference it has never been more than a degree or two cooler.

The rasboras' colouring looked quite pale when they were in the bag, before going into the tank - is this due to lack of oxygen/stress from being bagged, or just the way they look under different lighting?

Fish under stress will pale. Netting fish evokes the highest stress they experience, that of a predator. This is why ich is so frequent with new fish. Stress is the direct cause of about 95% of all fish disease; the pathogen/parasite has to bee present obviously, but it is stress that causes fish to succumb when otherwise they generally fight it off. Stress cannot always be avoided, but we must always keep it as low as possible.

 

[IndiaHawker]

This is all great to know, thank you! I've now pretty much finished my plans for the night with the tank , given it a good clean - I'm still struggling to get the temp. down as it's currently at 29c and according to care sheets I've looked at online I've worked out the best temp. for this combination of fish to be about 24 - roughly what the tank was on in the first place. Good to know that warmer conditions can help the fish when stressed at least - but still worried 29 is pushing it a bit! It has been exceptionally hot here recently (Southeast England), been about 30c today, so going to leave it a couple more hours and see if the tank cools down in the night, if not I might add some more cool water (did so earlier but didn't seem to make much difference). The strange thing is that for the first few hours of the tank running we didn't realise that the heater wasn't in the aquarium, it was removed and in a separate box - but the tank was still about 28-29! Assuming this is to do with the current hot weather? Also is there an easy way to tell if the heater is actually functioning? AFAIK it should be, but there doesn't appear to be any visible signs (although it's hard to see), so unsure.

Here are my most recent test results (I'm pretty new to water testing so hoping I got these right):

Nitrite: 20ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm
pH: 7.5, possibly towards 8 (worked out using online care sheets that best pH for this setup is ~7)
KH: 120-180ppm
GH: 180+ppm (appeared to max out the scale on the test strip)

[EDIT: and Ammonia: 0.5-1ppm - this was before cleaning it though, will test again tonight!]

Nitrite/nitrate I believe are okay. It's the KH and GH I'm worried about as I'm a bit confused about converting to dGH, and (once again using the care sheets) I've worked out that the best "hardness" for this setup from what I've read is 10-12dGH, and the best KH possibly around 80ppm (different source) although a bit unsure? In the care sheets online, does "hardness" refer to dGH or GH? And is it correct that you multiply dGH by 17.9 to convert to ppm?

Can The Spruce Pets website generally be considered as trusted to people's knowledge - as that's where I've been getting a lot of my info/care sheets?

Despite my concerns, my fish seem to be thriving about as well as I can tell. Really hope they're as happy as they appear!

 

[seangee]

On the heavy metals issue...most of these are also plant nutrients: iron, copper, zinc, manganese. So wait 24 hours before using a plant fertilizer if you do use one, after the water change. A conditioner that detoxifies heavy metals will negate these metals in a liquid plant fertilizer so there is no point in wasting it. I use Flourish Comprehensive Supplement, and I add it the day after the water change.

Very useful tip. I never managed to put 2&2 together, but will certainly start from now on.

 

[Byron]

I'm still struggling to get the temp. down as it's currently at 29c and according to care sheets I've looked at online I've worked out the best temp. for this combination of fish to be about 24 - roughly what the tank was on in the first place. Good to know that warmer conditions can help the fish when stressed at least - but still worried 29 is pushing it a bit! It has been exceptionally hot here recently (Southeast England), been about 30c today, so going to leave it a couple more hours and see if the tank cools down in the night, if not I might add some more cool water (did so earlier but didn't seem to make much difference). The strange thing is that for the first few hours of the tank running we didn't realise that the heater wasn't in the aquarium, it was removed and in a separate box - but the tank was still about 28-29! Assuming this is to do with the current hot weather?

Water in the tank will normally be the same temp as the air in the room, unless you have a heater heating it higher. So summer high temps mean higher tank water temps accordingly. This is not usually a problem. But do not try cooling the water with cool water, ice, etc, as this only makes more fluctuating temps and these can seriously impact fish. A diurnal fluctuation of warmer days and cooler nights is fine, this is natural. Let it be on its own. Though there are some things that can help sometimes. Reduce tank lighting time (plants can manage with less usually); leave the tank cover open provided you do not have fish that might jump and most all will so some lower the water level; increase water surface disturbance; cool the room.

Also is there an easy way to tell if the heater is actually functioning? AFAIK it should be, but there doesn't appear to be any visible signs (although it's hard to see), so unsure.

Place the heater in the tank and leave it for 30 minutes before plugging it in. If it has a setting, set it to the intended temperature; but heaters frequently heat lower or higher than the setting, so use a good thermometer in the tank water to confirm the setting. Otherwise follow the instructions. Have the tank temp where you want it before using the heater; heaters are better at keeping the temp than they are at raising it, and less likely to fail.

Here are my most recent test results (I'm pretty new to water testing so hoping I got these right):

Nitrite: 20ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm
pH: 7.5, possibly towards 8 (worked out using online care sheets that best pH for this setup is ~7)
KH: 120-180ppm
GH: 180+ppm (appeared to max out the scale on the test strip)

Nitrite/nitrate I believe are okay. It's the KH and GH I'm worried about as I'm a bit confused about converting to dGH, and (once again using the care sheets) I've worked out that the best "hardness" for this setup from what I've read is 10-12dGH, and the best KH possibly around 80ppm (different source) although a bit unsure? In the care sheets online, does "hardness" refer to dGH or GH? And is it correct that you multiply dGH by 17.9 to convert to ppm?

Have you mixed the nitrite/nitrate? Nitrite is deadly, and at 20 ppm fish would all be dead.

Don't try to adjust GH/KH/pH in the tank. Find out what your tap is, that is what you have to work with. Stable GH and pH even if a bit outside the "preferred" range is better than fluctuating, and pH will depend upon the GH and KH so these have to be dealt with before pH anyway.

GH is general hardness or total hardness. It can be expressed in one of several units; the hobby uses two commonly, degrees (dGH or dH) and ppm (parts per million, which happens to bee the same as mg/l). You can convert between these two with 17.9, multiplying dGH by 17.9 to get the ppm, or dividing ppm to get the dGH.

Can The Spruce Pets website generally be considered as trusted to people's knowledge - as that's where I've been getting a lot of my info/care sheets?

I know nothing about this site, so when I have more time I will check it out. Meanwhile, the data on water, habitat, behaviours, compatibility, etc on Seriously Fish is highly reliable. Many of us here use it and no other.
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/

 

[Essjay]

IndiaHawker, can I suggest you look on your water company's website for your tap water hardness. Your tester says over 180 ppm but you say you are in south east England, and water there is so hard it is usually described as liquid rock. It is not unknown for places in the south east to have almost double 180 ppm (10 dH) in tap water. Make a note of the number and unit as a lot of UK water companies use a different unit from fish keeping.
Your water company may possibly give a number for alkalinity, but most UK water companies do not. Alkalinity is the term water companies use for KH. Knowing KH is not as important as knowing GH. GH affects fish directly while KH affects them indirectly by buffering pH - the higher the KH the harder it is for the pH to change.

I only ever look at Seriously Fish as well

 

[IndiaHawker]

Water in the tank will normally be the same temp as the air in the room, unless you have a heater heating it higher. So summer high temps mean higher tank water temps accordingly. This is not usually a problem. But do not try cooling the water with cool water, ice, etc, as this only makes more fluctuating temps and these can seriously impact fish. A diurnal fluctuation of warmer days and cooler nights is fine, this is natural. Let it be on its own. Though there are some things that can help sometimes. Reduce tank lighting time (plants can manage with less usually); leave the tank cover open provided you do not have fish that might jump and most all will so some lower the water level; increase water surface disturbance; cool the room.



Place the heater in the tank and leave it for 30 minutes before plugging it in. If it has a setting, set it to the intended temperature; but heaters frequently heat lower or higher than the setting, so use a good thermometer in the tank water to confirm the setting. Otherwise follow the instructions. Have the tank temp where you want it before using the heater; heaters are better at keeping the temp than they are at raising it, and less likely to fail.



Have you mixed the nitrite/nitrate? Nitrite is deadly, and at 20 ppm fish would all be dead.

Don't try to adjust GH/KH/pH in the tank. Find out what your tap is, that is what you have to work with. Stable GH and pH even if a bit outside the "preferred" range is better than fluctuating, and pH will depend upon the GH and KH so these have to be dealt with before pH anyway.

GH is general hardness or total hardness. It can be expressed in one of several units; the hobby uses two commonly, degrees (dGH or dH) and ppm (parts per million, which happens to bee the same as mg/l). You can convert between these two with 17.9, multiplying dGH by 17.9 to get the ppm, or dividing ppm to get the dGH.



I know nothing about this site, so when I have more time I will check it out. Meanwhile, the data on water, habitat, behaviours, compatibility, etc on Seriously Fish is highly reliable. Many of us here use it and no other.
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/

Right, good to know, thank you! Definitely won't try adding any more cooler water or other things then and will bear in mind that stability is the most important thing. Still a bit worried though as temp has gradually increased to 30c as of last night and doesn't seem to have dipped at all, even overnight with light off. Had no idea about leaving heater in for half an hour before turning it on so didn't do this - what is the reason for doing this and could this have caused problems? The heater is a Marina 100w Submersible heater, and I've got it set at 24c - AFAIK it's working but haven't figured out for sure yet. I've got it turned on with the assumption that when the tank gets too hot the heater will switch off, is this correct? Could this be causing my water to overheat? Will try turning the light off if I need to, can only have lid off when I can be in the room as I have a cat (she's old bless her, and doesn't seem too interested, but don't like to risk anything).

Yes definitely mixed up nitrate/nitrite there, sorry for the confusion! Noted it down right the first time but somehow got mixed up somewhere down the line - whoops!

IndiaHawker, can I suggest you look on your water company's website for your tap water hardness. Your tester says over 180 ppm but you say you are in south east England, and water there is so hard it is usually described as liquid rock. It is not unknown for places in the south east to have almost double 180 ppm (10 dH) in tap water. Make a note of the number and unit as a lot of UK water companies use a different unit from fish keeping.
Your water company may possibly give a number for alkalinity, but most UK water companies do not. Alkalinity is the term water companies use for KH. Knowing KH is not as important as knowing GH. GH affects fish directly while KH affects them indirectly by buffering pH - the higher the KH the harder it is for the pH to change.

I only ever look at Seriously Fish as well

Oh wow, didn't realise that about our water - guess that would make sense! Right, my next step is to find out this info and will get back to you. And that's so helpful to know about the GH/KH - now a lot of things I read relating this to pH make sense! Will also check out Seriously Fish, thank you both for the recommendation and thank you both for the invaluable help!

Still waiting for my plants/wood to come and I've now ordered some more sand and some aquarium-suitable grey rocks - really looking forward to making this a lovely environment!

 

[IndiaHawker]

Oh wow, this is what it says:

Calcium carbonate(CaCO3): 316 ppm

Other hardness measurements

Degrees Clarke:22

Degrees German(DH):18

Degrees French:32

Fluoridation

We don't add fluoride to any of our water supplies.

Fluoride occurs naturally in soils and rocks and can therefore be found in raw water.

Natural fluoride content of your water:0.1 ppm

Lead

Water we supply contains virtually no lead.

But if you have a lead pipe feeding your property or internal plumbing, small amounts of lead may dissolve in the water.

View your full water quality report above to find out the average lead concentration in your area.


What's the best course of action for me to take?

 

[Byron]

Still a bit worried though as temp has gradually increased to 30c as of last night and doesn't seem to have dipped at all, even overnight with light off. Had no idea about leaving heater in for half an hour before turning it on so didn't do this - what is the reason for doing this and could this have caused problems? The heater is a Marina 100w Submersible heater, and I've got it set at 24c - AFAIK it's working but haven't figured out for sure yet. I've got it turned on with the assumption that when the tank gets too hot the heater will switch off, is this correct? Could this be causing my water to overheat? Will try turning the light off if I need to, can only have lid off when I can be in the room as I have a cat (she's old bless her, and doesn't seem too interested, but don't like to risk anything).

I don't know how the heater may function, but most will only come on (heat) if the tank water is cooler than the set temperature, and most (that I have) have a small pilot light that lights when the heater is heating, and goes off when it is not.

As I said previously, the tank water temperature will not be cooler than the air temperature when the latter is above the set tank temperature (unless the heater is set higher). So if the air/room is 30C, the tank water is going to slowly climb to that temperature. If tyhe room cools as during night, so will the tank water temperature, again slower than the room. Air heats/cools faster than water. So you cannot have the tank lower than the room/air temp [ not without a chiller, not usual in freshwater tanks].

 

[Essjay]

The two figures you need from your list are
Calcium carbonate 316 ppm (we usually don't bother saying the calcium carbonate bit in fishkeeping, just the ppm)
Degrees German 18. This is what we call dH or dGH.

As I suspected when I read you are in south east England, you have hard water.

Seriously Fish gives hardness ranges in some profiles as ppm, in others as dH, so you need to know both numbers. Look up the fish you have, and those you would like and see which fish have the same hardness requirements as your tap water level.

 

[IndiaHawker]

I don't know how the heater may function, but most will only come on (heat) if the tank water is cooler than the set temperature, and most (that I have) have a small pilot light that lights when the heater is heating, and goes off when it is not.

As I said previously, the tank water temperature will not be cooler than the air temperature when the latter is above the set tank temperature (unless the heater is set higher). So if the air/room is 30C, the tank water is going to slowly climb to that temperature. If tyhe room cools as during night, so will the tank water temperature, again slower than the room. Air heats/cools faster than water. So you cannot have the tank lower than the room/air temp [ not without a chiller, not usual in freshwater tanks].

Okay thank you, this makes sense! As it's rarely this hot here I'm hoping the temp. will decrease soon. Until then, I'll do my best to keep the room as cool as I can.

The two figures you need from your list are
Calcium carbonate 316 ppm (we usually don't bother saying the calcium carbonate bit in fishkeeping, just the ppm)
Degrees German 18. This is what we call dH or dGH.

As I suspected when I read you are in south east England, you have hard water.

Seriously Fish gives hardness ranges in some profiles as ppm, in others as dH, so you need to know both numbers. Look up the fish you have, and those you would like and see which fish have the same hardness requirements as your tap water level.

If I was starting a tank afresh I'd be totally willing to do this; I know I've already read about fish I like that like hard water. But I like these fish too, and want to give them a good home - even if I could get them all to a pet store they'd way too likely just be rehomed to another tank in this area with hard water. I want to do whatever I can to make them happy - even if this means a painstaking process of very gradually adding more and more conditioner/doing something different over a period of months.

 

[IndiaHawker]

Looking into RO water to remove minerals from tap water - I'm on a fairly tight budget (wouldn't be able to buy till next payday anyway) and don't have much space but how well would something like this work for this purpose?:

https://www.sterner.co.uk/domestic/...r-fp3-3-stage-drinking-filtration-system.html

 

[seangee]

That filter won't change your water chemistry. I also would not recommend RO water if you are on a tight budget. Two things that are neccessary for healthy fish are:

• Stable water parameters
• Regular water changes.

Most people recommend changing 50% of you water every week. If you go the RO route and don't have RO water on a particular week what do you do? Not changing water is bad. Changing water with tap water is also bad because they will get stressed if the water conditions change. As you rightly say the fish are already living in the wrong water and taking them back to a shop will still have them in the wrong water. They will be far better off getting regular water changes that don't require you to spend any extra money.

I would focus on providing the best environment that you can for your fish with the resources you have, and right now that may mean keeping soft water fish in hard water. Just FWIW I live in SE England and my water parameters are similar to yours. I do keep soft water fish and consider mine to be healthy and thriving.

 

[IndiaHawker]

That filter won't change your water chemistry. I also would not recommend RO water if you are on a tight budget. Two things that are neccessary for healthy fish are:

• Stable water parameters
• Regular water changes.

Most people recommend changing 50% of you water every week. If you go the RO route and don't have RO water on a particular week what do you do? Not changing water is bad. Changing water with tap water is also bad because they will get stressed if the water conditions change. As you rightly say the fish are already living in the wrong water and taking them back to a shop will still have them in the wrong water. They will be far better off getting regular water changes that don't require you to spend any extra money.

I would focus on providing the best environment that you can for your fish with the resources you have, and right now that may mean keeping soft water fish in hard water. Just FWIW I live in SE England and my water parameters are similar to yours. I do keep soft water fish and consider mine to be healthy and thriving.

Great to know, thank you! So one last newbie question - when I do my water changes, should I continue to use the recommended amount of conditioner or no conditioner? When I brought the tank home I changed about 50% of the water, and added the conditioner - which I believe has been used for water changes so far as came with the tank.

A real relief to know about your softwater fish living in similar water to my own. Been in slight panic mode thinking I'm not doing the best that I can for my fish! Thanks for the help

 

[seangee]

What water conditioner are you using? I use a measuring syringe and add exactly the amount I need to each bucket before putting it into the tank