Adopted blue gourami - M/F? Community tank?

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

What about this article then https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/trichopodus-trichopterus/

Seriously Fish also mentions their inclination towards aggression and to keep them with robust tank mates, not a standard community tank.
"While often recommended as a community fish this is not always so. Some individuals can become very spiteful as they mature, while others remain peaceful. Males are territorial and will squabble amongst themselves, becoming very aggressive when breeding. It is best kept with robust fish such as barbs, larger characins, loricariids, loaches and other medium/large gouramis."

I am not on about the set up I am on about it is a shame for you to miss out on this fish. They are wonderful fish. As for 30g being to small it is not as my article says 30g is minimum tank size and every one in help with southeast Asia stocking also agrees with me about the tank size. It has been planned out for years and I'm finally getting someone elses opinion.

I might be wrong there, my apologies if I am. But that is stated by SF as the minimum tank size, I assume for one fish, so when keeping more than that, I would have sized up the tank accordingly. Especially given that they reach 5 inches and I can see how large that is by the one I'm looking at now - that's a small volume of water and not a lot of space for three of 'em, plus other fish... they're bound to harass each other when they're living in such close quarters.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

As I said to the other hobbyist it is a bad egg. As my other article says ' Some individuals can become very spiteful ' if you don't want a three spot a since ' it's too aggressive ' then re-home it.

But it wasn't a bad egg. Those behaviours were perfectly normal for the fish, it's the environment it was put in - a general community tank - that wasn't right. The fish wasn't evil or "mean", it was just doing as millions of years of evolution have programmed it to do. In the right set up with plenty of space, a male and some other females around, she would probably have been fine. Fish aren't evil or mean spirited, we're just forcing fish to live in an environment we created. So it's important to plan the tank and the stocking while taking these things into account.


I don't understand how or why this has become an argument, frankly. Even if my adopted gourami is a sweetie pie,
she could eat one of my pseudomugli in one bite. I don't want to test that out and lose my fish in the process either...

 

[Coryking]

Seriously Fish also mentions their inclination towards aggression and to keep them with robust tank mates, not a standard community tank.
"While often recommended as a community fish this is not always so. Some individuals can become very spiteful as they mature, while others remain peaceful. Males are territorial and will squabble amongst themselves, becoming very aggressive when breeding. It is best kept with robust fish such as barbs, larger characins, loricariids, loaches and other medium/large gouramis."


I might be wrong there, my apologies if I am. But that is stated by SF as the minimum tank size, I assume for one fish, so when keeping more than that, I would have sized up the tank accordingly. Especially given that they reach 5 inches and I can see how large that is by the one I'm looking at now - that's a small volume of water and not a lot of space for three of 'em, plus other fish... they're bound to harass each other when they're living in such close quarters.

At the time they were the size of honey gouramis. I knew they would out grow the tank in a year or two so I planned on upgrading the tank or rehoming them.

 

[itiwhetu]

Just to be clear Blur Gourami's very rarely eat another fish, but what they do do is chase and torment other fish until they give up on life. Blue Gourami's are best suited to the top part of a large Cichlid Tank.

 

[Byron]

I was in a local store one day, standing in front of a tank containing medium sized blue gourami and smallish neon tetras. I thought to myself, that is a dumb combination for sure...and while standing there, two of the gourami isolated a neon tetra and within minutes it was gone, eaten.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I'm quite concerned about this blue gourami female.
Don't yell me at for it, I know full well how dumb it is, but when the rainbow shark began to follow and harass the gourami in quarantine, I removed her and put her in my main 36g with the cories, plecs, 5 tetra, 2 guppies, 2 platies, and shrimp.
I know it's stupid, I should have set up another tank, but I took a calculated risk. I examined all the fish in a small bare tank before added them to QT, see nothing indicated disease beside being pale from stress, and they came from a neglected, forgotten tank, so nothing new added to it for a long time.

She hides away in the back all of the time. I figured she might pick off some shrimp, but there are enough in there that she'd need to be in there a long time to get them all, so I wasn't worried. I have been keeping a close eye that she doesn't go for the tetra/guppies/platies though.

I haven't seen her chase a thing, and that tank is in my bedroom, so I can see a lot of what happen even at night, with just a little light from my lamp, can see her come out of hiding and cruise around a bit. Her movements seem normal and natural for a gourami - not fin clamped at all.

But she's very shy. Hides away behind the wood pieces right at the back, which makes sense. There's lots of frogbit and some hortwort on the surface, plus some open space around the front and right side to swim. But even five days into the tank with plenty of clean fresh water, after coming from an abandoned tank, she hasn't coloured up well. Not as pale as when she first arrived, but that deep blue mottling they get and I've seen on her briefly isn't normally there. I will keep trying to get photos of her but as I said, she hides away during the day, rarely appearing and going into hiding if I approach the tank. Haven't seen her go for another fish, only eats what reaches the back at mealtimes, doesn't come out during feedings even with live food... and the paleness concerns me.
The previous owners, when I first talked about adopted the fish, said;

"Yes it’s a blue gourami, I get the feeling he could be on the way out though so I’m not sure how much time you’d get with him. Then there’s a Rainbow shark, he’s quite a big boy now so would need to be in a bag on his own. The angels are from an old picture so I don’t actually have those anymore. The only others in there are 3 (or 4) corydora, and 1 or 2 ottocinclus algae eaters. Really sorry I can’t get better pictures of them all with the light how it is on the tank."

I never managed to find out what she meant by that, why she thought she was on her way out, but perhaps that's what I'm seeing? From what she said, I think she'd had the gourami and rainbow shark for around two years, so I don't think it's old age. Could still be adjusting too... they were in a neglected tank for a long time with super high nitrates, and it's only been five days after that and a big move...
Appreciate any thoughts from anyone! Tagging people I've love to hear from, who've chipped in thoughts on the thread and have kept fish like this before - @Colin_T @GaryE @Byron @Wills @Slaphppy7 and even you, @itiwhetu While we don't agree on all fishkeeping topics, I do respect your thoughts on things like this!

 

[Byron]

This is basically an unanswerable question. Some of us, myself certainly, have pointed out what is likely to occur given the species. We don't know how this gourami "lived" in the former tank, how stressed it may have been, and what you're seeing now is more of that. Or if it is currently under stress from the recent upheaval and new environment. That it can overnight become very different is well documented with many "aggressive" species that don't seem aggressive at present.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

This is basically an unanswerable question.

True, I'm sorry
To be honest, I plopped her in there in a bit of a panic moment, after seeing the shark began chasing her right away. Since they'd lived together in the neglected tank, I didn't expect the harassment from the shark right away. I should have, moving to a new environment and different water is bound to make them unpredictable, and perhaps the shark often harassed the gourami in the previous home, and the owners just didn't notice. Since they didn't even know how many fish were in the tank, that seems likely. If so, no wonder she's still nervous and stressed.

Some of us, myself certainly, have pointed out what is likely to occur given the species. We don't know how this gourami "lived" in the former tank, how stressed it may have been, and what you're seeing now is more of that. Or if it is currently under stress from the recent upheaval and new environment. That it can overnight become very different is well documented with many "aggressive" species that don't seem aggressive at present.

I don't want to risk my other fish... even though I know I have by putting her in there. The plan is not to keep her long term, and I would have figured something else out if she'd chased any of my fish - I have a 12.5g tank empty that would work in a pinch. But since she hasn't been bothering them and has already been through so much, I didn't want to do that unless I had to.
I want to make sure she's healthy before passing her on to someone else. Or at least hopefully let her settle, colour up, gain some confidence back before moving her again. But not sure what's going on, and I know I'm asking an impossible question, i'm sorry! You can't see the fish and tell me if it's just a super shy gourami, if she's just stressed and has been harassed by the shark for a long time, or is battling some internal problem or illness. What's that illness that dwarf gourami often get? Do three spots often get it too?

I need a plan. If I can rehome the shark to this friend, move the new adopted cories and oto to main tanks, gourami can have 22g to herself to quarantine for a longer time without being harassed..?

 

[Slaphppy7]

My personal experience, with the male blue (3 spot, opaline) gourami I got w/out doing my own proper research, from my local LFS...they have them in stock all of the time, which I now wish they would not do....but apparently, they are widely sold, in the different color morphs, listed with different names, and touted by uninformed LFS employees as "peaceful" fish

My male did the exact same thing (at first), in my 40 breeder community tank (mostly tetras, otos, some cherry barbs, a pleco, 2 pearl gouramis at the time...lots of fish)

Shy, timid, hid alot...until he got comfortable, and acclimated to the tank...I can't recall exactly how long it took for him to do that, 3 weeks maybe (?)...could have been longer, but not much

Then, he become bold and aggressive, chased the pearls from their usual spot in the tank, to the point of THEM hiding, which they never did...THEY became reclusive, and he began to dominate the tank, appearing all over the place in the tank...almost seemed like he was "patrolling" to assert dominance... just my opinion from what I observed

Then, the fish deaths began. More like disappearances, slowly over time. Due to other "Life" circumstances going on at the time, I wasn't observing the tank on a daily basis, like I usually would. But both pearls vanished (I found remnants of one of them), as well as some of my tetras, and at least one oto...I have snails & shrimp in the tank, as well, so decomposing bodies won't last long anyway, but I'm certain the blue gourami was stressing all of the tank inhabitants to literal death, if not killing them outright

Then, maybe a few months (?) later, when I finally realized what was probably going on, the blue gourami began to lose color, and literally appear to waste away, within a week or two...started hiding again, wouldn't eat, etc

When I found IT'S remnants, I have to say, it's the first time I did not mourn the passing of one of my fish

If it can be in it's own tank until you can rehome it, that's the best case scenario, IMHO

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

My personal experience, with the male blue (3 spot, opaline) gourami I got w/out doing my own proper research, from my local LFS...they have them in stock all of the time, which I now wish they would not do....but apparently, they are widely sold, in the different color morphs, listed with different names, and touted by uninformed LFS employees as "peaceful" fish

My male did the exact same thing (at first), in my 40 breeder community tank (mostly tetras, otos, some cherry barbs, a pleco, 2 pearl gouramis at the time...lots of fish)

Shy, timid, hid alot...until he got comfortable, and acclimated to the tank...I can't recall exactly how long it took for him to do that, 3 weeks maybe (?)...could have been longer, but not much

Thank you for sharing your experience! Man, that's horrible and I'm sorry it happened to you But I'm grateful that you shared how it progressed from timid to terror... I can easily imagine that happening here. This fish came from a tank that seems to have been pretty much left to it's devices for a long while, and the way the rainbow immediately began harassing it when I added them to QT, I didn't expect or prepare for since they'd been living together for so long.

I wanted to save all these fish, and let my heart guide me without using my head. Kicking myself because I knew better, and thought since the store would take the shark, they could all quarantine together and it would all be good. I'd QT them, take shark and gourami to store or rehome them directly, add oto and cories to my tanks. Simple. But of course it wasn't simple.

If it can be in it's own tank until you can rehome it, that's the best case scenario, IMHO

The timing of this sucks too. I'm supposed to moving the fish from my 36g to a 57g in the other room, temporarily, while I set up their 63g and (hopefully) sell the 36g. Adopted fish in 22g on the floor! Have been trying to sell the 57g and a 12.2g for a while now with no success. So I have too many tanks to juggle as it is! I could use the 12.5g to QT the gourami alone - but I hate to set up another tank while I'm trying to downsize!
I could take the gourami and shark to the store tomorrow, make it their problem, but that feels unfair to them if there is something wrong with the gourami, and the poor thing has been through a lot already. I wanted to save them, I don't want to add to her stress.
Usually I'd want to QT for a month. But I'm sorely tempted to take the (beautiful and healthy seeming) shark to the store this weekend, move the cories and otos into my tanks, and move the gourami to the 22g alone. If there's disease, I've already introduced it to my main tank by putting the gourami in there, but I panicked when the shark was chasing her. Since the previous owners neglected the tank and didn't even know how many fish were in it, they likely wouldn't have noticed if the shark was harassing the gourami.

I'm an idiot. Heart in the right place, but didn't think this through properly at all, and really don't know what to do for the best now.

 

[Slaphppy7]

Thank you for sharing your experience! Man, that's horrible and I'm sorry it happened to you But I'm grateful that you shared how it progressed from timid to terror... I can easily imagine that happening here. This fish came from a tank that seems to have been pretty much left to it's devices for a long while, and the way the rainbow immediately began harassing it when I added them to QT, I didn't expect or prepare for since they'd been living together for so long.

I wanted to save all these fish, and let my heart guide me without using my head. Kicking myself because I knew better, and thought since the store would take the shark, they could all quarantine together and it would all be good. I'd QT them, take shark and gourami to store or rehome them directly, add oto and cories to my tanks. Simple. But of course it wasn't simple.

The timing of this sucks too. I'm supposed to moving the fish from my 36g to a 57g in the other room, temporarily, while I set up their 63g and (hopefully) sell the 36g. Adopted fish in 22g on the floor! Have been trying to sell the 57g and a 12.2g for a while now with no success. So I have too many tanks to juggle as it is! I could use the 12.5g to QT the gourami alone - but I hate to set up another tank while I'm trying to downsize!
I could take the gourami and shark to the store tomorrow, make it their problem, but that feels unfair to them if there is something wrong with the gourami, and the poor thing has been through a lot already. I wanted to save them, I don't want to add to her stress.
Usually I'd want to QT for a month. But I'm sorely tempted to take the (beautiful and healthy seeming) shark to the store this weekend, move the cories and otos into my tanks, and move the gourami to the 22g alone. If there's disease, I've already introduced it to my main tank by putting the gourami in there, but I panicked when the shark was chasing her. Since the previous owners neglected the tank and didn't even know how many fish were in it, they likely wouldn't have noticed if the shark was harassing the gourami.

I'm an idiot. Heart in the right place, but didn't think this through properly at all, and really don't know what to do for the best now.

You're not an idiot, you are a passionate fishkeeper concerning the well-being of tropical fish we choose to keep to the best of our ability...there's a vast difference between the two

Sometimes in the hobby, there are hard decisions to make...but "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"...I'd rehome the two fish to the LFS, if it were me, and hope for the best for their future

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

almost seemed like he was "patrolling" to assert dominance... just my opinion from what I observed

I know exactly what you mean, and patrolling is the word I'd use as well. I remember watching the honey gourami's do it, but it was a much more sedate, peaceful movement - looking for insects in the floating plants, picking at live food, that sort of thing. Interesting to watch, didn't seem to bother the other fish, and when live food was added they came alive. Same sedate, peaceful movement, but more still and purposeful, almost cocking their head like a bird when they spot something before going in to eat it.

But then there was the gold gourami female who must have been physically bashing into the male - he was skinny and battered when I discovered what was happening and bought a second hand tank to isolate him (this was when it was my father's tank and I hadn't taken over maintaining it for him yet, and didn't have tanks of my own). He lingered for a while and in the meantime, the female patrolled the 57g, the whole thing was her territory and she attacked and killed tetra, zebra danios, anything in her path. When the male died moved her to that empty tank until I could take her back to the store. But that patrolling was much different than the honey gourami's, it was more like looking for trouble and creating it.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

You're not an idiot, you are a passionate fishkeeper concerning the well-being of tropical fish we choose to keep to the best of our ability...there's a vast difference between the two

This is really kind, thank you! I'm beating myself because I know better. I know I should have been strict with QT procedures, but broke the rules anyway because I didn't stop and think it through, and I'm hard on myself, lol. But since I've already broken quarantine, might as well move the cories and oto now too. The horse has already bolted when it comes to isolating them from potential disease, but can at least now separate out the potentially aggressive fish and allow all of them to de-stress.

Sometimes in the hobby, there are hard decisions to make...but "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"...I'd rehome the two fish to the LFS, if it were me, and hope for the best for their future

I'll call the store in the morning and be honest with them, see what they say, thank you.
The guy with the six ft dream tank, who seemed really keen to take them has dropped out, so that sucks. But the store is a great one, so I know they'll look after them. Let them know that if they take both, they can't be in the same tank.
The sappy part of me wants to move oto and cories to main tanks with others of their kind, rainbow to the store, and keep the gourami for a while longer alone in the 22g. I feel bad for her, pretty convinced the shark has been terrorising her for who knows how long, and I'd like to see her looking better and feeling safe before just passing her along. But in a separate tank so my own fish are safe.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Twice today, the blue gourami came to the front, then froze when she saw me. I stayed still, trying not to spook her, but she plunged away back into her hiding spot - she shot away so fast, didn't imagine she could even move that fast. Makes me even more inclined to think she's been bullied by the shark for a while, and is easily spooked. Never saw my dad's gourami spook like that

 

[Slaphppy7]

Twice today, the blue gourami came to the front, then froze when she saw me. I stayed still, trying not to spook her, but she plunged away back into her hiding spot - she shot away so fast, didn't imagine she could even move that fast. Makes me even more inclined to think she's been bullied by the shark for a while, and is easily spooked. Never saw my dad's gourami spook like that

It's possible the shark has been harassing her...or she's just getting used to different surroundings, and activity outside of the tank