Additional Filter - Advice Please

[silverchild23]

Wow!

With no internet at home at the moment, and leaving work yesterday with just one reply, I didn't expect so much of discussion to arise from my (rather shallow, compared) question!

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think by the sounds of it I'll stick to my water changes (however I might try this water hyacinth) to decrease the nitrates.

As far as a small internal filter goes - can anyone recommend a good small internal filter that I can put polyfilter in to polish the water?

Many thanks!

 

[waterdrop]

Wow!

With no internet at home at the moment, and leaving work yesterday with just one reply, I didn't expect so much of discussion to arise from my (rather shallow, compared) question!

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think by the sounds of it I'll stick to my water changes (however I might try this water hyacinth) to decrease the nitrates.

As far as a small internal filter goes - can anyone recommend a good small internal filter that I can put polyfilter in to polish the water?

Many thanks!

Hi silver,
Good choice, we were getting pretty "way out there" with theory and water changes are the way to go.

The others will have to help you re a good small internal filter. I only recently returned to the hobby and thus am no good at recommending recent products.

One practical thought though is to consider whether/how you might want to hide it. Anything on the -inside- of your tank becomes part of the visual aquascape. I've noticed in my reading that TFF, like any large forum, brings in people from widely different angles: some are used to breeding fish in bare tanks, some really like the look of gear in their tank (my 11-year-old for example thinks a bubble ladder would be cool to put right out in front! to heck with the fish) and still others strive for a beautiful planted tank aquascape.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Colin_T]

rather than an internal filter what about a hang on back type filter like an Aquaclear external. They are easy to clean and you can put sponge, filter floss or carbon in them.

 

[Fatty]

I've been looking at nitrate filters and I think they are a great piece of kit, the only problem is cost..

As been said you could make one up out of pvc tube, or an old reactor. The trouble here is the efficiency of it, it needs to be a Fluidised bed reactor (circulation pump on it) to make it more able to deal with nitrate for a longer term, making the most out of the media.

The sulphur reactors don't need feeding and with the broken coral/carbonate to re-buffer the water re-entering the tank it's the ideal solution.

These sort of reactors seem to be £160 upwards..

I'm looking at making a dual chamber re-circ model for £100, possibly less if the demand is there, it would basically come complete, just add media and plug it in.

Do you think people would be interested at that price?

 

[raptorrex]

I've been looking at nitrate filters and I think they are a great piece of kit, the only problem is cost..

As been said you could make one up out of pvc tube, or an old reactor. The trouble here is the efficiency of it, it needs to be a Fluidised bed reactor (circulation pump on it) to make it more able to deal with nitrate for a longer term, making the most out of the media.

The sulphur reactors don't need feeding and with the broken coral/carbonate to re-buffer the water re-entering the tank it's the ideal solution.

These sort of reactors seem to be £160 upwards..

I'm looking at making a dual chamber re-circ model for £100, possibly less if the demand is there, it would basically come complete, just add media and plug it in.

Do you think people would be interested at that price?

the question is, do we want to spend that kind of money, just to avoid changing a few gallons of water per week?

 

[waterdrop]

"the question is, do we want to spend that kind of money, just to avoid changing a few gallons of water per week? "

Especially because despite Nitrates being the main thing, I've still read plenty of articles over the years about how other trace things can build up and water changes are taking care of those in addition to Nitrates. Planted tank dosing in particular makes people think about this. What do ppl think?

 

[jgray152]

I have a bunch of filter wool in my Fx5 and I don't have to clean that out for a few months. I have it setup for 3 stage mechanical filtration which is probubly why I can go longer since the wool doesn't clog up real fast.

 

[Fatty]

"the question is, do we want to spend that kind of money, just to avoid changing a few gallons of water per week? "

Especially because despite Nitrates being the main thing, I've still read plenty of articles over the years about how other trace things can build up and water changes are taking care of those in addition to Nitrates. Planted tank dosing in particular makes people think about this. What do ppl think?

True, I don't think people shud avoid changing water, but reducing nitrate to 0 must have alot of good side effects as this is closer to NSW. And the nitrate reactor can use a natural method to extract trace elements from the carbonate media and put back in the tank producing a more natural additive than using chemicals in bottles, or atleast allowing less manufactured additives to be added.

 

[waterdrop]

"the question is, do we want to spend that kind of money, just to avoid changing a few gallons of water per week? "

Especially because despite Nitrates being the main thing, I've still read plenty of articles over the years about how other trace things can build up and water changes are taking care of those in addition to Nitrates. Planted tank dosing in particular makes people think about this. What do ppl think?

True, I don't think people shud avoid changing water, but reducing nitrate to 0 must have alot of good side effects as this is closer to NSW. And the nitrate reactor can use a natural method to extract trace elements from the carbonate media and put back in the tank producing a more natural additive than using chemicals in bottles, or atleast allowing less manufactured additives to be added.

Well that's true. If you could produce a unit of reasonable size, low cost(say around $100), low maintenance, no odor problems and resonable life span, you might get enough early adopters to improve it with feedback and then if it worked it might catch on as another optional piece of aquarium gear that people would want to own and use. That's probably a dream scenerio though. Somewhere in that list of ideal characteristics there is probably at least one that the current devices can't meet.
~~waterdrop~~

 

[raptorrex]

Well that's true. If you could produce a unit of reasonable size, low cost(say around $100), low maintenance, no odor problems and resonable life span, you might get enough early adopters to improve it with feedback and then if it worked it might catch on as another optional piece of aquarium gear that people would want to own and use. That's probably a dream scenerio though. Somewhere in that list of ideal characteristics there is probably at least one that the current devices can't meet.
~~waterdrop~~

now if you could come up with an, efficient, design to filter water BEFORE it is put in the tank, you would be on to something!!! around the world many use RO water with all its exclusive waste and the need to put back 90% of the stuff it takes out. just to remove nitrates! that's the aquatic equivalent of cracking nuts with a pile driver. an effective and efficient method of removing nitrates before they go in the tank, should, make someone a tidy sum. worth a thought would you not say?

 

[Fatty]

now if you could come up with an, efficient, design to filter water BEFORE it is put in the tank, you would be on to something!!! around the world many use RO water with all its exclusive waste and the need to put back 90% of the stuff it takes out. just to remove nitrates! that's the aquatic equivalent of cracking nuts with a pile driver. an effective and efficient method of removing nitrates before they go in the tank, should, make someone a tidy sum. worth a thought would you not say?

It's the heavy metals and other chemicals like chlorine and flourine?? that complicate things I guess.

I'd say a filter that can re-generate the tank water completely with minimum change of water (so no need for the waste of RO etc.) would be the money maker!

I'm thinking more along the lines of a continual removal of nitrate from the tank, as alot of people start with RO, with 0 nitrates, but add a few fish and you'll never get back to 0 again, unless you change huge amounts of water.

I'm getting the impression that people don't want nitrate filters, altho I often hear of people buying them, so it's confusing, there is a good filter on the market for £160 and I can make it for £80 odd, so I figure I'll give it go!
Altho these type of filters may be more of a marine want than a freshy because of the sensitive inverts etc.

 

[raptorrex]

now if you could come up with an, efficient, design to filter water BEFORE it is put in the tank, you would be on to something!!! around the world many use RO water with all its exclusive waste and the need to put back 90% of the stuff it takes out. just to remove nitrates! that's the aquatic equivalent of cracking nuts with a pile driver. an effective and efficient method of removing nitrates before they go in the tank, should, make someone a tidy sum. worth a thought would you not say?

It's the heavy metals and other chemicals like chlorine and flourine?? that complicate things I guess.

I'd say a filter that can re-generate the tank water completely with minimum change of water (so no need for the waste of RO etc.) would be the money maker!

I'm thinking more along the lines of a continual removal of nitrate from the tank, as alot of people start with RO, with 0 nitrates, but add a few fish and you'll never get back to 0 again, unless you change huge amounts of water.

I'm getting the impression that people don't want nitrate filters, altho I often hear of people buying them, so it's confusing, there is a good filter on the market for £160 and I can make it for £80 odd, so I figure I'll give it go!
Altho these type of filters may be more of a marine want than a freshy because of the sensitive inverts etc.

chlorine and heavy metals are, more often than not, removed by the dechlorination mix many use. and whilst i see your point on in tank filtration, there are more things than nitrate in a tank that can , badly, effect fish. the minerals are used, to a certain extent, by all fish, if you do not change the water how will you replace these? are we going to be left having to mix more additives, with all the attendant danger of error or mistakes that involves? pathogens, can and do get in the tank, with no water changes they will remain there, something most of use would like to avoid.
i see no point in RO,especially if you have a nitrate filter, at any level, though the salt-water use is unavoidable, or so it seems at the moment. and its use in freshwater, though its up to the keeper, has absolutely no foundation in fact, with the possible exception of a few very delicate fish. there is one member of this forum who keeps vast numbers of fish. none of which could be called, normal or hardy, he lives in London, it seems the only place in the UK with problems with the nitrate levels in the tap water, yet he uses nothing more than dechlorinated tap water. all reports are, his fish are very healthy!

i think you are right, there is not much interest in such an, internal filter. after all changing water is not that much of a chore, and it has more benefits than just removing nitrates. it may be interesting to do a pole on this, to see how the split between for and against goes. perhaps your research into these things is showing just why, something that on the face of it seems a winner, there is no real takers from the hobby. its expensive, bulky, will add noise and it can all be done once a week, with no capital outlay, and only a small amount of effort.

 

[Fatty]

if you do not change the water how will you replace these? are we going to be left having to mix more additives, with all the attendant danger of error or mistakes that involves? pathogens, can and do get in the tank, with no water changes they will remain there, something most of use would like to avoid.

They said hover cars would be a think of the future, and I'm picking mine up tomorrow

Never say never, perhaps there will be a way to minimise or even completely remove the need for water changes, take a pond for example, a perfectly healthy eco system, with only evaporation and rain input (possibly equivalent to tiny water changes).

I'd guess the market for Nitrate reactors is probably the marine nano tank keepers, for which the filter would be quiet, compact, low-maintanance and efficient.

 

[raptorrex]

They said hover cars would be a think of the future, and I'm picking mine up tomorrow

what you aint got one yet, where have you been? just traded mine in for a space shuttle last week, and i am now saving for a Warp Drive