About ready to give up....

[julielynn47]

I have been working on the brown algae situation in my 55 gallon for a year now...maybe longer. The black fuzzy stuff that kills plants seems to be gone, but the brown stuff that gets all over everything is coming back...at a high rate of speed...and I have no idea why.

I have done everything that anyone here has suggested, but nothing works. I got the canister filter when the HOB one died, instead of another HOB. I got it for this tank because the one I have going in the 75 has been so good. This is not the canister filter's fault, I was just hoping that it would clean the water really good and this problem would be over.

But it seems that unless I run the diatom filter I can not keep this under any kind of control at all. I was hoping that this canister would take away the need to have that diatom filter sitting in the floor, in front of the tank all the time. But it has not. The water has become cloudy. A few days ago I just relented and sat the diatom filter in front of the tank, ran the hoses into it, and let it run for a few hours. The diatom powder in the filter went from white to brown in about 2 and half hours. That is how much of this brown microscopic stuff is floating in the water. You can't see it with your eyes. And it does not always cause the water to be cloudy, I don't think that is even the reason it is cloudy. It never caused it to be cloudy before...as a matter of fact the water was never cloudy until I installed the canister filter. I guess I will just go drag out that diatom filter, which, even thought I hate dragging it out, is the BEST filtration I have ever seen, and hook it up and clean it up again.

I am really disappointed in the fact that this canister does not clean the water better. And I also do not understand why, since the 75 is crystal clear, but the 75 also has no fish in it as yet, so that might have something to do with it.

I just don't know. I am really ready to just throw up my hands and give up entirely.

 

[Toney]

Have you tried UV?

I had the brown alge bad, but my water never got cloudy. I just had to clean the glass off twice a day.

Otos cleaned mine up pretty fast

 

[julielynn47]

I have use UV. I don't even have a clue where to start with that. I will research it and see what I find. Did you use UV to get rid of it?

I have tried otos before but for some reason they just do not live for long. I don't know why. My other fish seem to live forever, but not those. My guppies peck around at it, but they don't really make a difference to it.

I can scrape the glass two or three times a week if I want too. No problem. It just grows on it or settles on it like crazy. On the plants, decorations, wood, substrate, heater, you name it.

It has never caused my water to be cloudy before either, which is why I think that is another issue entirely, and one I don't understand. I never had cloudy water prior to the canister filter. So, I just don't understand what is going on.

 

[julielynn47]

When this problem had overtaken my tank before, I read that if you promoted the growth of green algae, that would somehow starve out the brown. When I posted that this did indeed work for me, I was told that was nonsense. But when I just now went on a search for understanding the UV thing, this is what I found...again...and this is not the same place I found it before.. "With the above points in mind, I will again emphasize that Brown Diatoms MUST have silicates present to reproduce, although removal of all silicates is often not feasible. In many of the methods (outlined in the removal tips below), the aquarist can lower the available silicates such as by simply adding plants or encouraging green algae to grow which will out compete the Brown diatoms"

I know this does work as silly as it might sound. But I really do not want to go back down that road again. I just want to know a way to fix this and it not come back.

Have any of you ever known this below to be an issue and would somehow cutting silicates help the brown stuff?

"In freshwater, silicates are generally between 4-20 ppm and should be kept under 4 ppm in an aquarium, although usually this is not a problem in healthy established freshwater aquariums where lighting is good to encourage plants or green algae (both of which will starve also consume silicates limiting diatom growth)."

BTW, this is where I found this info http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2008/04/aquarium-algae.html

Also, I have been using PhosGuard to remove the phosphates and it is supposed to remove silicates as well. So I guess obviously this must not always work

 

[flchamp89]

Ive read your posts but not sure I remember the tank well enough. Post a picture. Give us some equipment, stocking, photo period info.

No need give up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[Byron]

I will just make a few observations, rather than suggesting this or that.

First is, that things can be very different from one tank to another, even if we assume we are handling them identically. I learned this with the very similar "issue" in two of my eight tanks. I doubt this has much to do with the filter itself (meaning, the type), so don't think that if filter type "A" works in one tank it will keep another tank the same. It may not, depending upon the individual tank's biological system. And everything we do can affect the system, so it is sometimes hard to find the culprit.

Second, make sure you are correctly identifying this or that. This is not at all easy sometimes, I know. From what you have written, I would wonder if the brown stuff is organics rather than algae per say. The cloudiness when it occurs it likely due to organics, and could be a diatom bloom or a bacterial bloom. A new filter or cleaning the existing filter will both cause an increase in the bacteria that cause hazy water when this is a bacterial bloom.

UV was mentioned. This might work, and is probably the best treatment, if this is a diatom or bacterial bloom. But it will not have much effect on diatom algae.

Diatom filtration should help in any of this. Of course, we prefer to find the actual cause and deal with that. Any form of filtration, whether diatom, special pads (like Purigen) or UV, is likely not really addressing the cause but dealing with the result, something like band-aiding a problem rather than eliminating it. Sometimes though if it clears up we may not really care how it did, just that it is gone, at least so long as the special "filtration" is continued.

Silicates can be responsible for true diatoms algae, but not for the organics-related blooms. Have you any way to confirm the presence of silicates in your source water? I mean, check with the water people, and see if silicates are present.

Byron.

 

[Jej]

Hi,
I've been using 5 micron filter floss twist tied to my canister intake as a pre filter. It lasts a few days but I can easily swap it out and when I have a bunch of used ones bleach them for a few days. You can also just throw them out. A big roll of this stuff for ponds is $20 or so on Amazon and you can probably cut out enough pieces for a few months.
Adding a bunch of floating plants can also help to outcompete the algae. They grow fast, don't need co2, and block light going to the algae.
I hope you get this sorted out soon.

I have been working on the brown algae situation in my 55 gallon for a year now...maybe longer. The black fuzzy stuff that kills plants seems to be gone, but the brown stuff that gets all over everything is coming back...at a high rate of speed...and I have no idea why.

I have done everything that anyone here has suggested, but nothing works. I got the canister filter when the HOB one died, instead of another HOB. I got it for this tank because the one I have going in the 75 has been so good. This is not the canister filter's fault, I was just hoping that it would clean the water really good and this problem would be over.

But it seems that unless I run the diatom filter I can not keep this under any kind of control at all. I was hoping that this canister would take away the need to have that diatom filter sitting in the floor, in front of the tank all the time. But it has not. The water has become cloudy. A few days ago I just relented and sat the diatom filter in front of the tank, ran the hoses into it, and let it run for a few hours. The diatom powder in the filter went from white to brown in about 2 and half hours. That is how much of this brown microscopic stuff is floating in the water. You can't see it with your eyes. And it does not always cause the water to be cloudy, I don't think that is even the reason it is cloudy. It never caused it to be cloudy before...as a matter of fact the water was never cloudy until I installed the canister filter. I guess I will just go drag out that diatom filter, which, even thought I hate dragging it out, is the BEST filtration I have ever seen, and hook it up and clean it up again.

I am really disappointed in the fact that this canister does not clean the water better. And I also do not understand why, since the 75 is crystal clear, but the 75 also has no fish in it as yet, so that might have something to do with it.

I just don't know. I am really ready to just throw up my hands and give up entirely.

 

[julielynn47]

These are pictures "pre" canister with the diatom filter running a few hours a day. Things are pretty green and the water is clear. You can see a little bit of diatoms or brown algae, on the amazon swords, but not much. The substrate is clean.

Now, the amazon swords are about 60% brown covered. The substrate is turning brown, and it is on everything...again. All I did was stop using the diatom filter. Guess that was a mistake.

I took some pictures with my iPhone, but they have to upload to the cloud and then download back to my pc before I can post them. So I am waiting on that.

On the hazy water....I think that has something to do with the filter change. Not that the problem was caused by the canister, but just because I changed it out period. Those were my thoughts, and now someone else has had the same thought. So that just reinforces my own thought process on that. It took me a little while to get it all changed over and I figured I caused a bacterial bloom. I have had this diatom/brown algae problem off and on now for a long time and it has never caused cloudy water.

And I agree, the diatom filter is wonderful !! But, it is only keeping the problem under control, not solving it. I want it solved before I have no hair left because I have pulled it all out.

edited to add -- I have a huge mass of floating hornwort, that the fish just love, you can see it in the left side of the first pic. So I do have some floating plants.

 

[julielynn47]

I have the 50 micron filter floss in my canister filter now.

I have that and the regular floss, as well as the Phosguard and Purigen. I do not have any carbon in it. And of course I have the bio rings and the bio media. I would think it should be filtering everything like crazy, but for some reason it is not touching whatever is causing the diatom/brown algae problem

I got new lights back in June, so just a few months ago. Life Glo and Aqua Glo. So I am good on good lights.

 

[StevenF]

Have you any way to confirm the presence of silicates in your source water? I mean, check with the water people, and see if silicates are present.

Silcone is the 8th most abundant element in the universe. it makes up about 70% of all soil and rock on earth. The glass your aquarium is made from is silicon dioxide as well as the gravel, sand, and any decorative rock. . Silicon is present in all tap water. Silicon compounds are normally not soluble in water but if your water is acidic some may dissolve. It might also react with other things in the water creating soluble silicates. What is your PH and how often and how much water do you cycle out? You might as well also list all your water test values and what water conditioners and fertilizers you use.

UV was mentioned. This might work, and is probably the best treatment, if this is a diatom or bacterial bloom. But it will not have much effect on diatom algae.

UVC light destroys DNA. Given sufficient exposure it will kill any living thing. So any living thing floating in the water ill be filled when it is exposed to UVC long enough. UV sterilizers have a small pump that pumps water SLOWLY past of UV lamp. So any Diatoms floating in the water should be killed by a quality UV sterilizer.

I can scrape the glass two or three times a week if I want too. No problem. It just grows on it or settles on it like crazy. On the plants, decorations, wood, substrate, heater, you name it.

Diatoms are single cell algae encased in a solid silicon shell. They float in the water or settle on the bottom of the tank. They do not stick to anything. IF you have to scrape they glass you might be actually talking about hard green spot algae . Green spot algae is is a small green spot on the glass that sticks like ice on a car window. Very different than diatoms:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatom

http://www.barrreport.com/forum/bar...reme-green-spot-algae-no-other-algae-just-gsa

Perhaps you have two issues a hard green spot algae on the glass and diatoms settling on the plants? Green spot algae is in a way similar to coral, The algae coats itself with a carbonate shells layer. The carbonate shell makes it impossible for ottos to eat it since they cannot scrape it off the glass. Otos can only eat soft slimy algae or soft bacterial films. I you don't have the in the tank they will eventually starve and die.

When this problem had overtaken my tank before, I read that if you promoted the growth of green algae, that would somehow starve out the brown.

That is the central foundation of the Estimative index. No one knows exactly why it works with is but I suspect that Algae is sensitive to low level of one or 2 nutrients. While plants on the other hand are not sensitive to those nutrients. So if you get plant growing really well the plants will use up the nutrients algae needs. When those are depleted Algae growth slow or stops and hopefully it dies. However in order to do this you often need to make a customized Fertilizer for the tank. I recently did this on my small tank and it did wipe out green spot algae and reduced Cyanobacteria to minimal levels. However I still have issues with hair algae.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatom

 

[julielynn47]

I see no green algae of any kind in the tank at all.

Here are the pics of what is coming back at an alarming rate. Like I said the diatom filter can keep it under control, but I hate having the thing and its hoses setting in front of the tank all the time. Not only is it unsightly, it gets in the way. So I want this stuff gone...period.

This is just a portion of one of the amazon swords, getting covered in it again. I can wipe it off and use the diatom filter to get it all out of the water and in just a few days, it is coming back.


And this is a decorative ledge and the gravel getting all nasty looking again


I will get all the water parameters and such later today. I have to be gone most of the day today. I will work on that when I return.

 

[Mr. Bones]

Never had that issue unless it was a new unestablished tank with high nutrients and low light.

 

[julielynn47]

Not a new tank. Been cycled and stocked since 2007. I have been having this issue for quite some time now. It is kind of strange to have it now after all this time because when the tank was new, I never had an issue. Makes no sense, but I didn't start having any issue at all until about 3 years ago. It was not very bad at all. But about a year ago it hit and I have fought it ever since.

I have new lights, so that is not it. I don't know if I have high nutrients or not. I hate to admit it, but I have no idea how you even get high nutrients. I don't over fertilize I know that. I probably do over feed, but I always have and I have not always had the problem. So I don't think that is it. I do a 50% water change every week, sometimes twice a week if I am having the problem.

I was gone all day so I did not get to get all the tank stats. But I will do that tomorrow and post them.

I rubbed all the brown crap off the leaves of the plants tonight and dragged out the diatom filter and in about 20 minutes it had the water clear of all debris. But it is only cleaning up the residue not fixing the issue.

I feel like grabbing my hair with both hands and pulling it while screaming. LOL

On the up side, my cory laid eggs today!

 

[Toney]

Cool, I found baby shrimp today!

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Watched an interesting video on plants today. They talked some about algae(Cory from aquarium co-op). One of the things he mentioned that if you only use the same amount of fertiliser for your plants that you started with, and your plants grow, but you don't raise the amount of fertiliser, then you can get algae because the plants aren't doing as well. Dont know if this is your case but just a thought! Have you noticed any slower plant growth at all? Any deficiencies? Just a different angle to look at. He also mentioned to just try one thing at a time and wait a couple of weeks to see if it has changed. It takes a bit for algae to get established and can take a bit for it to change.