A topic not commonly available to new fish keepers Re: water softeners

[mcordelia]

Oof! So if cories didn't die from salt overload, did they die from liquid rock?

 

[FFGuest6357]

Oof! So if cories didn't die from salt overload, did they die from liquid rock?

I’m certainly not going to discount that possibility. Two remaining cories are doing very well. They look active, eating well, breathing looks normal, I don’t see any redness in the gills. Maybe the shock of hard water killed the rest and these two were able to adapt? It’s a mystery right now until I can sort out this mess of a plumbing job.... ugh. This is not how I install plumbing when I work...

EDIT: this problem is being exasperated by the fact I’m waiting on gh and kh test kits to give myself an idea of where/and how hard water is from different sources in the house.

 

[mcordelia]

Here's a thought: just go for a brackish tank and you can pour in all the water from the softener no issue! Lol I kid...

That sucks that you are dealing with someone's sloppy job. Our old house had an extension built and I got the impression that the previous owner tried to handyman a lot of the plumbing, the rest of the plumbing in the basement was fine, and then you get to the part of the basement adjacent to the extension and you go omgwtfbbq, this is ONLY ONE BATHROOM!!!! Why are there 8 copper lines?!?!?

 

[FFGuest6357]

there is no end to the plumbing issues I’ve had with this house, we’ve only been here a year. I’m talking upwards of $15k we’ve had to spend so far... about $12k of that was professionals, for scopes of work that were out of my ability or timeframe.

Never once did it occur to me to check where the softener was servicing.

35 years on this planet and I only have one year living where I needed one. Lessons learned, am I right?! Life is fun sometimes

 

[FFGuest6357]

What a nightmare that was...

I’ll attempt something that I’m not very good at; make a long story short.

The cold water to my kitchen tap, is hard water straight from the source plumbing. The hot water to the same tap goes through the water softener as is softened.

I was using water from the bathroom to fill the tank and both of those lines are softened.

So for the immediate future, I think am going to slowly change out the water using the kitchen tap, further reducing the concentration of sodium ions in the water.

I think that is a fairly reasonable plan, until I can come up with a more permanent solution, any thoughts?

EDIT: Again, still awaiting test kits for measurements on hardness... so I can’t give any details on that yet.

 

[mcordelia]

I was thinking about this last night, and I think the plumbing actually makes some sense. You want softened water for appliances (dishwasher, laundry), and for washing yourself, but not necessarily for drinking. Thus, it would make sense that the kitchen hot water line is softened for the dishwasher, but the cold water line is unsoftened for cooking and drinking. For the bathroom, it is easiest to wire all of them as soft even though people occasionally drink from the bathroom tap, it won't cause major complaints.

I think using the kitchen cold water tap for the interim is wise, and maybe buying a gallon of RO or DI for mixing in with the water changes moving forward makes sense. Saves you the expense of installing an RO system, and you can do some testing of the parameters to figure out how much you need to mix in. I would think that 1gal/week would be enough if you stick with fish that are reasonably suited to hard water.

 

[FFGuest6357]

@mcordelia
I agree with that plan. I’ve already started with small water changes to dilute slowly. (2 now at 2.5 gallons each over 3 days).

problem is that I already have tetras and two panda cories in the tank. I know they prefer soft water, so I may have to be diluting the new water going in pretty aggressively once I can dilute some of the sodium out.

I don’t want to change the fish, but I also want to do right by the fish. So the next step is finding that line I can walk where the fish are doing more than just surviving

 

[mcordelia]

There are a few folks on the forum who use RO water either exclusively or extensively. Unfortunately, I don't know people here well enough yet that I remember who they are.... Hopefully they see this and give you tips!!

 

[Essjay]

I know that @seangee uses all RO in most of his tanks, and @Retired Viking uses RO in one of his tanks for soft water fish.

 

[Retired Viking]

I would suggest that you look into a hard water test pen and a PH test pen. I use both when mixing my hard tap water with my RO water. I use a TDS-3 to test for hardness. It is very accurate and easy to use. I bought it online for around 10 USD. I use a ATC PH test pen which is also not very expensive but you have to calibrate it but once you have done that it is also easy to use.

 

[FFGuest6357]

The support on this topic has been overwhelming, thank you everyone.

I’ve got a lot to research, buy and do. They are not kidding when they say this hobby can quickly become an obsession.

 

[raylove]

Just picked up on this thread.
I don't think that the fact that your softener was wrongly programmed would have effected what came out of the tap. Once all of the calcium ions have been exchanged for sodium ions the softener won't add more sodium ions to the water. Anyway, being programmed for harder water simply means that the unit will regenerate more frequently than necessary, so all you were doing was wasting salt by flushing the resin before it was needed. You can't 'over treat' the water.
Anyway, the reason for the post is to say that whilst it is always said that too much sodium is bad for fish, I was never able to find out where the balance was between too much sodium and too much calcium. Many years ago I therefore started to experiment with mixing my source water and softened water (all my water goes through the softener apart from a drinking water tap at the kitchen sink).
So, for approx 20 years I have been doing water changes using water that consists of about 25% 'softened' and 75% source water. I have kept all kinds of fish and never had a problem and one big benefit is that even at that level of dilution I get hardly any calcium deposits in the tank any more. I don't measure it scientifically, I just run both taps into my bucket and guess at the flow rates! All my fish live long and healthy lives and plants flourish.
One thing you must never do is use water from the hot water system as this is likely to be very high in deadly copper. In older houses without a softener the risk is lower because the pipes and water tank are likely to have become scaled so the water doesn't come into contact with the copper. This won't happen with a softener though, so the danger from the copper pipes remains high - I see you use water from the bathroom so I wonder whether that's the problem?
By using water in the kitchen, the 25% that I use from the softener only passes through a couple of inches of copper pipe, and the untreated source water only goes through old pipe which is likely to have the protective scaling. I bring the water up to temperature by adding boiling water from a kettle.
Some tap water conditioners will neutralise copper, but not all, and at normal doses I'm not sure that would be enough to treat water from a hot tap unless the product specifically says that it's intended for that purpose.
Good luck!

 

[FFGuest6357]

@raylove

thank you very much for the detailed reply.

I have been taking everyone’s input into consideration as much as possible.

this was a solution I came to as a possibility, to heat it from someone else is quite encouraging.

It will also be my approach for the next few weeks as I continue to strive for some balance in water chemistry.

Im not worried about copper poisoning as my plumbing is currently a mishmash of copper and pex, and I always run the lines clear before filling tanks.

but thank you for the insight