Thanks loads for letting me know, its fixed now!!
Thats really good, how did you get it eating them or were you a lucky one?
A Short Mandarin Keepers Diary
- Thread starter sophos9
- Start date
Thanks loads for letting me know, its fixed now!!
Thats really good, how did you get it eating them or were you a lucky one?
littleme1969
Fish Herder
The fact that hes talking something means he should be OK 
If they spit it out or font even bother trying then you may have a problem.
He sounds like hes going to be just fine Great News!
If they spit it out or font even bother trying then you may have a problem.
He sounds like hes going to be just fine
Great News!Right, I've looked through some journals to try and find the facts about why copepods are 'better' than other foods.
The first thing we know is that they are alive, so the freeze process should not leach amino acids/minerals out
Here are the findings...
Acartia clausi
Protein 63.12%
Amino acid - Vit C >500 ug g-1
Fatty acid composition 33.94%
Artemia
Protein 60%
Amino acid - below dietry recommendation
Fatty acid composition 3-4%
Mysis
Protein 60.0%
Amino acid - Unknown
Fatty acid composition 8%
Cyclop-Eeze
Protein 60.0%
Amino acid - Unknown
Fatty acid composition 34.0%
So the differences seem to be around the amino acid profile and fatty acid composition. This shows brine shrimp to be deficient in both areas, mysis being marginally better in HUFA's (highly unsaturated fatty acids)
The above strengthens the fact that the right additives should also be provided. Its great to see that Cyclop-Eeze is on face value, comparable!
So Vitamin C and HUFA's I will try to introduce....
The first thing we know is that they are alive, so the freeze process should not leach amino acids/minerals out
Here are the findings...
Acartia clausi
Protein 63.12%
Amino acid - Vit C >500 ug g-1
Fatty acid composition 33.94%
Artemia
Protein 60%
Amino acid - below dietry recommendation
Fatty acid composition 3-4%
Mysis
Protein 60.0%
Amino acid - Unknown
Fatty acid composition 8%
Cyclop-Eeze
Protein 60.0%
Amino acid - Unknown
Fatty acid composition 34.0%
So the differences seem to be around the amino acid profile and fatty acid composition. This shows brine shrimp to be deficient in both areas, mysis being marginally better in HUFA's (highly unsaturated fatty acids)
The above strengthens the fact that the right additives should also be provided. Its great to see that Cyclop-Eeze is on face value, comparable!
So Vitamin C and HUFA's I will try to introduce....
Wow... big update!
Bought some Brine shrimp with Omega 3 (HUFA's now close to copepods) and I also bought a product called Garlic Guard by Seachem.... I tried feeding some frozen earlier, he ate a couple of bits but nothing to should about.
A couple of hours later I got some more and added some Garlic Guard and hell, he went mad for it eating every piece it could see!! So its offical, he is onto frozen brine enriched with spiralina and Omega 3!!
Bought some Brine shrimp with Omega 3 (HUFA's now close to copepods) and I also bought a product called Garlic Guard by Seachem.... I tried feeding some frozen earlier, he ate a couple of bits but nothing to should about.
A couple of hours later I got some more and added some Garlic Guard and hell, he went mad for it eating every piece it could see!! So its offical, he is onto frozen brine enriched with spiralina and Omega 3!!
Oh i know a lot about why copepods are such great foods since our last reef club meeting i had that what we talked about for 2 and a half hours....
Marine animals contain very high amounts of omega-3, they have evolved into animals that need a high omega-3 diet. Phytoplankton consists of the highest amount of omega-3 and in the ocean, they are at the bottom of the food chain. Filter feeders eat this phytoplankton, this includes zooplankton (copepods are a type of zooplankton and therefor have a high omega-3 content) worms, clams etc etc. Then higher organisms eat this zooplankton like fish, corals etc and the zooplankton then transfers its omega-3 into the fish. Then we eat the fish and it transfers to us etc etc.
Phytoplankton is a green/brown suspended algae, green water is a tank with phytoplankton. Look in coral reef parts of the ocean and i would doubt you would see a dark green, thats because there is so many things eating this phytoplankton and so much sun feeding the phytoplankton. Since phyto has omega-3 and everything somehow eats phyto, obviously marine life would be high in omega-3. Now look at a stagnant or slow moving body of freshwater, notice how lots of them are full of green algae even with life like insect larvae, fish etc? This is because omega-3 is not the basis of freshwater fish, it is not their most important diet and there arent many freshwater filter feeders that feed on phytoplankton than there are saltwater. So most freshwater organisms will have a low content of omega-3.
Most frozen foods we buy comes from freshwater, and if you look at your box of mysis, it came from freshwater, i dont think there are any major distributors of saltwater mysis. This freshwater mysis is low on omega-3, it is plenty for freshwater organisms since tehy dont need much omega-3, but for saltwater organisms, it isnt enough arguably. Therefor it is always best to feed saltwater ocean zoo-plankton that is rich in omega-3 since most of them are herbivores that only feed on phyto. Seeing that mandarin fish eat pods in the wild and most of those pods eat phyto and phyto is rich in omgega-3, then obviously the mandarin should need lots of omega-3. So if you cant afford a pure diet of pods like tigger pods or arcti pods etc, then the second best thing to do is to enrich your frozen foods for it.
Im not sure why brine shrimp is so low on it though, they are filter feeders that can feed off phytoplankton and they are saltwater organisms, but i am unsure why they are so low in nutrients.
Feel free to ask questions, and i made a post about this that goes into detail more a while ago.
If i were you i would skip the brine shrimp and feed mysis, although fish love omega-3 and need it, obviously they need other nutrients with it as well, mysis is generally more nutritious than brine shrimp, now if you enrich the mysis with garlic and selcon (a commercially available omega-3 enricher) than it will be very very nutritious for your mandarin and also for all your other fish.
But in the end if it refuses mysis, then use brine, its probably not as good as mysis but its better than a starving fish
Marine animals contain very high amounts of omega-3, they have evolved into animals that need a high omega-3 diet. Phytoplankton consists of the highest amount of omega-3 and in the ocean, they are at the bottom of the food chain. Filter feeders eat this phytoplankton, this includes zooplankton (copepods are a type of zooplankton and therefor have a high omega-3 content) worms, clams etc etc. Then higher organisms eat this zooplankton like fish, corals etc and the zooplankton then transfers its omega-3 into the fish. Then we eat the fish and it transfers to us etc etc.
Phytoplankton is a green/brown suspended algae, green water is a tank with phytoplankton. Look in coral reef parts of the ocean and i would doubt you would see a dark green, thats because there is so many things eating this phytoplankton and so much sun feeding the phytoplankton. Since phyto has omega-3 and everything somehow eats phyto, obviously marine life would be high in omega-3. Now look at a stagnant or slow moving body of freshwater, notice how lots of them are full of green algae even with life like insect larvae, fish etc? This is because omega-3 is not the basis of freshwater fish, it is not their most important diet and there arent many freshwater filter feeders that feed on phytoplankton than there are saltwater. So most freshwater organisms will have a low content of omega-3.
Most frozen foods we buy comes from freshwater, and if you look at your box of mysis, it came from freshwater, i dont think there are any major distributors of saltwater mysis. This freshwater mysis is low on omega-3, it is plenty for freshwater organisms since tehy dont need much omega-3, but for saltwater organisms, it isnt enough arguably. Therefor it is always best to feed saltwater ocean zoo-plankton that is rich in omega-3 since most of them are herbivores that only feed on phyto. Seeing that mandarin fish eat pods in the wild and most of those pods eat phyto and phyto is rich in omgega-3, then obviously the mandarin should need lots of omega-3. So if you cant afford a pure diet of pods like tigger pods or arcti pods etc, then the second best thing to do is to enrich your frozen foods for it.
Im not sure why brine shrimp is so low on it though, they are filter feeders that can feed off phytoplankton and they are saltwater organisms, but i am unsure why they are so low in nutrients.
Feel free to ask questions, and i made a post about this that goes into detail more a while ago.
If i were you i would skip the brine shrimp and feed mysis, although fish love omega-3 and need it, obviously they need other nutrients with it as well, mysis is generally more nutritious than brine shrimp, now if you enrich the mysis with garlic and selcon (a commercially available omega-3 enricher) than it will be very very nutritious for your mandarin and also for all your other fish.
But in the end if it refuses mysis, then use brine, its probably not as good as mysis but its better than a starving fish
Nice post musho...
My question is what makes a pod a sustainable living source to the mandarin?
I added the macro nutrient profile a few posts ago, the sparse info on the web would suggest that protein levels over all groups are pretty much the same, amino acid profiles are not conclusive as we do not have enough info on the products - the main difference being in the HUFA's (highly unsaturated fatty acids), the level of Omega 3 in a pod is approx 3.75 times more than mysis and 7.5 times more than brine
Other variables included volume of food source and availability
I'm going to try and find the complete macro/micro nutrient profile of copepods then try and highlight the differences, personally I feel we will see a amino and HUFA difference, if this is the case we can easily replicate this and move on to mitigate the next variable
My question is what makes a pod a sustainable living source to the mandarin?
I added the macro nutrient profile a few posts ago, the sparse info on the web would suggest that protein levels over all groups are pretty much the same, amino acid profiles are not conclusive as we do not have enough info on the products - the main difference being in the HUFA's (highly unsaturated fatty acids), the level of Omega 3 in a pod is approx 3.75 times more than mysis and 7.5 times more than brine
Other variables included volume of food source and availability
I'm going to try and find the complete macro/micro nutrient profile of copepods then try and highlight the differences, personally I feel we will see a amino and HUFA difference, if this is the case we can easily replicate this and move on to mitigate the next variable
have you considered growing your own live cope pods out of the main tank, like getting a 5 gal bucket, filling it with sw, then putting pods in there and feeding them phytoplankton every once and a while? Then when there lots of them, baste some out and put it in your tank.
You can also buy concentrated bottle of arcti-pods which are big pods that came from the north pole that whales feed on.
Soaking mysis in selcon would be great as well
Or maybe just do all three of those things
You can also buy concentrated bottle of arcti-pods which are big pods that came from the north pole that whales feed on.
Soaking mysis in selcon would be great as well
Or maybe just do all three of those things
Another good update!
Tonight I got the pipe out, made a selection of brine (enriched with spiralina and Omega 3) and mysis, added some garlic guard and some flake. The mandarin knew what was going down and ate every piece that came out!!
Mission accomplished in 4 days... Now going to include flake in the deal...
Musho, I've in the middle of cleaning out a 16gal tank that will go in the shed (when I get one) and will contain pods.
Tonight I got the pipe out, made a selection of brine (enriched with spiralina and Omega 3) and mysis, added some garlic guard and some flake. The mandarin knew what was going down and ate every piece that came out!!
Mission accomplished in 4 days... Now going to include flake in the deal...
Musho, I've in the middle of cleaning out a 16gal tank that will go in the shed (when I get one) and will contain pods.
Thought I should give an update!!
The mandarin is doing totally fine, he is not fat and is certainly not skinny, just right I would say. He loves Brine enriched with Omega 3 but I think he goes crazy for San Francisco Bay Marine Cuisine!
He has not really got much interest in flake food and soon I will start trying him on Ocean Nutrition pellets
In all I'm dead happy, he is happy, totally active and eats well - what more could you want
The mandarin is doing totally fine, he is not fat and is certainly not skinny, just right I would say. He loves Brine enriched with Omega 3 but I think he goes crazy for San Francisco Bay Marine Cuisine!
He has not really got much interest in flake food and soon I will start trying him on Ocean Nutrition pellets
In all I'm dead happy, he is happy, totally active and eats well - what more could you want
dunno if they have it in england, but maybe try formula 1 frozen, better ingredients than san fran bay marine cuisine. But great to hear that he is doing... great (Austin powers, Allow myself to introduce..... myself....)
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