A Question About Bet(t)as

[Lynz781]

Yeh, I'd much rather see bettas in bigger tanks with plenty space. If you aint got room for more don't buy them and squeeze them in to tiny divided tanks. I personally think it is cruel and not any better than keeping goldfish in bowls, labyrinth lungs or not!

 

[nmonks]

I know its not an aquarium resource, but FishBase has some interesting words to say on the topic in its entry for Betta splendens --

The many colorful varieties are popular aquarium fish, however, the holding of the males in very small containers should be discouraged (Ref. 1672). Aquarium keeping: several females for one male; minimum aquarium size 60 cm (Ref. 51539).

Personally, and I say this as someone who doesn't keep or breed bettas, I don't like seeing them in pint-pot type containers and would never encourage anyone do keep them that way. There may be good practical reasons to keep them in tanks smaller than a bucket (3 gallons/10 litres), but I cannot imagine for a second that the fish is happier in such a tank compared with one substantially larger.

To be honest, if we've bred bettas with such long fins they cannot swim properly, i.e., they're crippled by what we think looks pretty, then that's the kind of thing that makes me ashamed of being a fishkeeper. I just cannot get my head around keeping and breeding any animal that cannot exercise its normal behaviour. Whether that's ragdoll cats, or docking dogs' tails, or fancy bettas. It's all just plain wrong to me.

When I did keep bettas (a male and a few females) they seemed to be perfectly happy in a quiet, well-planted community aquarium.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[fuman_chica]

i think the mimum size for a betta tank should be 2.5 gallons.

1 gallon is a load of crap. i dont care if they dont move around much. doesnt mean they like bein locked in a vase.

I would never keep a betta in a 1 gallon tank. Thats just cruel...

You know what? I had one of my male bettas in a 2.5 gallon, shallow tank. The thing was only like four or five inches deep but held 2.5 gallons. He was not happy in there. He was always sulking and just moping around. But I moved him into one of my one gallon, shallow tanks (also 4 or 5 inches deep), and he is the most active betta I have now. And all of them are in one gallons. They all swim around all day long. They all do the shake-it-dance when I'm going to feed them. They all have bubblenests built with in an hour of their twice a week 100% water changes. They are all VERY happy.

Just because some bettas prefer bigger, that doesn't mean that all of them do. I'm not going to put my bettas in a bigger tank just for the sake of saying I have them in something bigger than a one gallon. My boys weren't happy in the bigger tanks. They are happy in the one gallons. I think it just depends on the betta.

 

[Kairi]

i've got mine in a 10 gallon and he loves it. i'm sure he does get a little worn out from the filter at times, but he sits on his leaves and chills out by the heater often.... i'd feel horrible about putting another betta in a one gallon tank... i think my personal minimum is 5 gallons.

 

[BettaDreams1227]

This is just my opinion but wouldn't anything really be better than those Sh***y little cups they're in at the LFS? My guys are all in tanks ranging from 3/4 - 5 gallons and the guys in the small ones are no less happy than the ones in the 5 gallons. Personally if I were a betta I would rather be in 1 gallon of water than 2 inches of it in a store.

 

[OohFeeshy]

The many colorful varieties are popular aquarium fish, however, the holding of the males in very small containers should be discouraged (Ref. 1672). Aquarium keeping: several females for one male; minimum aquarium size 60 cm (Ref. 51539).

IMO, the fact that it encourages keeping males and females together does nothing to validify the statement. It's similar to a website saying as per, say, Mbu puffers, that 'Aquarium Keeping' is in a community tank with other Mbus and many small fish. A bloodbath for both parties concerned is likely in most cases.

Personally, and I say this as someone who doesn't keep or breed bettas, I don't like seeing them in pint-pot type containers

Pint-pot type containers? Disregarding the appaling betta tanks on sale now (comparing what any decent person on this forum keeps bettas in to what is on sale is like having a go at the CW section for goldfish bowls), even breeders use containers around 1/2g to jar the fry, and that's from the time they get nasty to the time they are sold, which is a few months, usually less. Plus, as mentioned, they are fry, so they're going to be around half an inch.

and would never encourage anyone do keep them that way.

Nobody does, except the manufacturers.

There may be good practical reasons to keep them in tanks smaller than a bucket (3 gallons/10 litres),

Ah, but that's a different matter, swimming space is very different to volume. A 10g may be higher in volume than a 3g, but if this 10g is 3ft tall, thats about as much use as a krypton teapot.

but I cannot imagine for a second that the fish is happier in such a tank compared with one substantially larger.

Happier is rather abstract.... Certianly for say, your average VT, a tank too big is at a disadvantage due to natural problems (such as territoriality, love of still water [most people stick filters with high current on larger tanks]) and mostly, man made problems (such as being bred for higher aggression, huge fins on most varieties, and other similar problems), so a balance must be reached.

To be honest, if we've bred bettas with such long fins they cannot swim properly, i.e., they're crippled by what we think looks pretty, then that's the kind of thing that makes me ashamed of being a fishkeeper.

Hey, its not just bettas. Dyed fish, cropped tailed fish, fancy goldfish, long fin varieties in other fish, some of the more mutanted hybrids.... If something as small as bettas tipped you over to the 'ashamed' side, you must have already felt god awful...

It's all just plain wrong to me.

Then why are you just rallying against bettas? Theres a thread about longfin oscars, they look like overgrown bettas. Go and tell the fancy goldfish keepers you thing their fish are 'plain wrong'.

When I did keep bettas (a male and a few females) they seemed to be perfectly happy in a quiet, well-planted community aquarium.

Again, thats like somebody saying 'I kept a group of puffers in a community tank and they seemed perfectly fine'. Bettas vary greatly.

 

[AMS]

Feeshy, no need to critique everything someone says in a post those are their personal views and they can express them as they feel, as can you, just dont critique in a harsh manner.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Feeshy, no need to critique everything someone says in a post those are their personal views and they can express them as they feel, as can you, just dont critique.

And I'm expressing my personal views by saying the poster really isn't taking into account how things actually are Take almost any fish and it's ridiculously mutated, at least bettas are better off than celestial goldfish....

 

[BWBettas]

Im With Feeshy, If Your Not A Betta Breeder Like I Plan To Be Figure This Out:

Around 100 10 Gallon Tanks To Clean Out EVERY DAY
Or 100 half gallon containers to clean out...

The fish will be perfectly happy for a few weeks/months in a small tub. Anyway such a small fry will probably feel intimidated and lonely from coming from a growout tank. Keeping them in small tubs near eachother is simply the same as keeping them all together. Because you are letting them view their siblings.

I'm not getting into this anymore. If you don't agree with it DON'T GET INTO IT you'll only make it wose off for yourself getting into this argument. I'm saying that it's more practical for betta lovers to have THEIR FISH (Not YOURS!) in a tank they are comfortable in and can quite HAPPILY live their lives in.

A Very Angry Arsenal Fan Other Wise Known As...
Bret

 

[nmonks]

Moreover, I don't actually disagree with much of what you're saying. I'm not a betta expert, so you won't see me here giving advice on them. This thread is a discussion, hence anyone's welcome to say something. I made my opinion clear, but again, as I said, I don't keep these fish and don't hold myself to be expert in them.

I am a biologist though, and you are 100% right to talk about "happiness" being difficult to define with animals. My real issue with 'very fancy' bettas (and celestial goldfish, balloon mollies, tail-less discus, and all the rest of these mutated fish) is not so much "happiness" but rather them being physically unable to exhibit natural behaviour. Fancy bettas aren't the worst by any means, but I am alarmed by a trend towards bettas less able to survive in community tanks that was the case even 20 years ago.

Cheers,

Neale

And I'm expressing my personal views by saying the poster really isn't taking into account how things actually are Take almost any fish and it's ridiculously mutated, at least bettas are better off than celestial goldfish....

 

[allan45121]

well bloody hell! i wasn't expecting such a large, if a little bit aggessive, response to a simple question. Thanks to the 3 or 4 replies that actually answered the question.... well its nice that ppl feel so strongly about this one...obviously people strive to make tanks/ponds more like a species natural habitat, but the fact is that you can never supply enough space for a fish, or other pet, to live naturally. A fish is never going to be as happy in a tank as it is in its home stream/river and if bettas live in small volumes of water naturally then why not in captivity?? So long as they are healthy it doesn't matter. Your keeping fish to please yourself not to please them. not to get too deep but its all me, me, me, with us humans! lol

 

[nmonks]

You got a lot of answers because it's an interesting question!

Broadly, you're right, some fish will never be satisfied with the aquarium they're kept in. But a lot of fish (the majority in fact) are tank-raised. They are no more familiar with the wild than we are. Guppies, neons, angels, blue gouramis, peppered Corydoras, bettas... all farmed.

Since they've never seen the wild, that leaves you with a different question: Does your aquarium provide them with the space and environment for them to exhibit their natural behaviour repertoire. Contrary to popular belief, this needn't be unlimited space. In the wild, kribs, for example, will defend territories of only a foot or two across, and won't leave that space. Hence, any aquarium that provides more space than that will be partially unused by the fish. Schooling fish like danios don't have a concept of territory, so space doesn't mean anything at all. All they "need" is a sufficiently large group for their schooling behaviour to work, and a sufficiently strong current for them to feel as if they are swimming in a stream.

There is a trend towards people providing tanks that allow fuller behaviour. Take the popularity of sand instead of gravel. Gravel is convenient for fishkeepers, but many fish would prefer sand, since they have instincts for digging or earth-eating. Sand is a hassle to set up, and does have potential risks, but many aquarist feel those are offset by being able to see their Corydoras or loaches or whatever behaving much more naturally.

I'm not sure what you mean by "greenpeace fishkeepers"... I assume something about people trying to respect the behavioural biology of the fishes instead of just shoe-horning them into whatever tank they have handy. I can't really accept that as being a negative thing though. OK, all aquaria are a compromise at some level, that's a given, but why not try and optimise the balance, so that the fish can behave as naturally as possible?

There's more to successful fishkeeping than keeping the fish healthy. Would you be happy merely kept alive? Quality of life is what's important, not just the length of life.

This is getting a bit off-track a little, so I will back up a little and say that I don't have strong objections to other people keeping bettas in small containers. I understand why, and I can see that it works. I'm merely saying that to your question why is it people keep bettas in tiny tanks, the answer is more about that we can, than that we need to. There's nothing about bettas that demands them being kept in tiny tanks, and a good case can be made for keeping them in substantially larger tanks, albeit ones that mimic their natural environment. A lot of the stories about bettas being unhappy in 20 gallon tanks or whatever is more about that tank being inappropriate than being too big. Bettas need lots of plants, little water movement, and no aggressive tankmates. If there are betta varieties that we've bred so fancy they cannot survive in anything but a tiny tank, then that's exactly the kind of thing we shouldn't be doing. We don't breed the instinct to swim out of these fish, only the ability... in other words, we condemn them a life of frustration.

Cheers,

Neale

 

[allan45121]

hmmm

 

[BettaGardener]

i think the mimum size for a betta tank should be 2.5 gallons.

1 gallon is a load of crap. i dont care if they dont move around much. doesnt mean they like bein locked in a vase.

I agree... I've had bettas in bowls and in tanks. Put a betta in a bowl, and he'll pretty much just lay there looking pathetic and miserable. I believe that bettas get bored. Put him in a nice tank with lots of plants, shiny things to look at, things to swim under and between, and a betta will come alive. They can be very frisky!!!

2.5 gallons is minimum... for two reasons... one, you can use a small heater to keep the temps warm and stable.... two, because if he poops a few times or if some of his food falls uneaten to the bottom, his water won't foul as quickly.

The idea that bettas can be kept in small bowls is a pet-store conspiracy. It is easier for pet stores to sell bettas if they give customers the impression that the betta needs neither much room or attention -- a cheap, low maintenance pet -- which bettas are not (at least not if you want them to be healthy and live a long time).

 

[Synirr]

They do not "Require" a filter, but if you don't use one you should do 50% water changes every day or 100% changes twice a week

This isn't necessarily true, it depends on the circumstances. The toxicity of ammonia varies with the pH, so the lower your pH the longer you can go without a water change. Also, the larger the volume of the tank, obviously, the slower ammonia is going to build up and the less frequent water changes will need to be. I do 100% water changes on my 1 gallon tanks once a week and it is more than sufficient at 6.8 pH, I know because I bothered to test the water and make sure . For the record, with twice daily feedings, my ammonia levels are ~.1 ppm in a 1 gallon tank at the end of the week, that's consistent for 7 tanks tested.
Here's an old thread about ph and how it relates to critical ammonia level.

My real issue with 'very fancy' bettas (and celestial goldfish, balloon mollies, tail-less discus, and all the rest of these mutated fish) is not so much "happiness" but rather them being physically unable to exhibit natural behaviour.

You and me both!! Show standards move toward fish with proportional finnage rather than large finnage, but in the effort to produce winning fish there are still fish produced that cannot support the weight of their own fins and constantly sit in a nose-up position, it's disgusting. This is why I prefer plakats.

On the issue of tank size, bigger is better up to a point of course, but personally I think 1 gallon is minimum. I want to eventually upgrade all my permanent residents to 2.5 gallons, which I think is the perfect size if you have a lot of bettas and need to save room but still want to give them some space, but for the time being I do still have fish in 1 gallons and they seem "happy" enough. They are active, the males bubblenest... they perform a full range of normal betta behaviours on a daily basis, basically, which is really all you can ask for I suppose