A Pityful Lps

[dgwebster]

My friend went to a LPS today to purchase herself two female rats, as they had just got some babies in.

This store, many years ago had something like 30 fish tanks in it, now down to two. Both Cold Water. Ok, the weather loaches and the WCMM are good in there. It was the 2 dead fish and the 3 nearly dead fish that bothered me. It does not take 10 seconds to remove them and put a tonic in the tank for general health (and also quarantine them, but if they insist on selling the live ones, at least pretend there is nothing wrong with the tank by removing dead fish.)

So 2 rats a purchased, females a black one and a monk hooded one. We get them home and I pay attention to the rats first time - the black one had its front left leg missing. I then look closer, the back right foot was also missing - well a stup fort of made a foot, but the toes were still missing. As this rat was going to be in a tank with 3 healthy rats, its not good. we phone shop and go back. ALL THREE black rats had at least 1 foot missing, it was a terrible sight. we advised them to contact the breeder as this is obviously a genetic inter-breeding issue. i also suggested never buying from that breeder again.

then i spot a featherless patch on a parrot. im thinking a letter to the owner of the shop and the council is in order.

Im also looking at converting a fish tank now for those 3 rats to live together in on one level, I felt so sorry for them (my grandfather was an amputee (SP?) and they made me think of him) and they deserve a good life, but if they go back to the breeder, rat poisen will be used

 

[Saedcantas]

How exactly do you purchase a rat without noticing that it is missing a whole leg and another of it's feet? That's no one's problem but your friend's if she didnt see it on purchase.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Saedcantas makes a good point, you should always thoroughly check animals before you buy them- when i bought my hamsters almost 2years ago, i asked if i could handle them before i bought them just to make sure they were tame and healthy.
On the other hand, i doubt the breeder will use rat poisen, its expensive and often takes a very long time to kill, the breeder will probably use some quicker and cheaper method of killing it if the rat is returned but the petshop may do this itself instead of sending the animals back to the breeder to save hassle.
Trying to convince lfs/lps to cut contracts with its breeders/suppliers is often a lost cause though, it rarely ever works- the lps is probably more than well aware of the condition of its stock, but has decided to keep its contracts with the breeders/suplliers due to the cheapness of their stock.

I don't think you can do much about the lps selling inbred animals, but if the lps is treating them badly/not attending their basic needs properly or selling sick/unfit animals the council should be able to do somthing about it. I hate to say it, but probably no-one will be interested in the fish when it comes down to it, but if you can find cases of mistreatment in other creatures the lps is selling then the council will do somthing about it or at least should do in every respect.

 

[dgwebster]

im not kidding when i say this, it was actually amazing, the animals were held and checked but oddly, not for the obvious, such as missing feet. to give an example though, imagine your foot, including its toes being completely covered in skin, not formed toes etc. that is what most were like, though the one we got was missing one leg from its "elbow" for want of a better phrase and it was not untill I got a proper look it was noticeable. The hair was very well grown and the rats had adapted very well, just cannot go into a standard cage.

 

[Synirr]

I'd assume the missing limbs were due to injury before assuming inbreeding. If they were housed with an aggressive rat there's a strong possibility it could have attacked and chewed their legs/toes off. Same thing could happen if the mother tried to kill them and began eating them when they were very young (this is common in rats, the mother may be under stress or sense something wrong with one pup and kill and eat them all). Pretty much all pet shop rats and other small mammals are inbred, but missing limbs really isn't that common of a deformity... most often they are much more prone to cancer, though. Pet shops want cheap animals, and cheap animals do not come from reliable breeders, they come from "mills".

EDIT: And surprisingly yes, animals can often survive after losing a limb, even without medical attention. We found a 3-legged box turtle on the road one summer, it had obviously been clipped by a car but the injury was healed and it had happened a long time ago, judging by the wear on the bottom of the shell where the leg was missing. She lived a good life with us for a year before we re-released her

 

[dgwebster]

That is quite correct, and at first that is what we thought, however the fact that they all ahve the same problem increases the likelyhood of genetic issues than anything else: e.g. savage mother is most likely to kill than mame, and the young would most likely show other problems too, e.g. missing ear, scarring etc.

these were too perfect a deformity to be that kind of issue.

I also agree about their living a long healthy life. However, in a cage with 3 fully formed rats, its susceptable (SP?) to bullying and they would have trouble moving around in a full size cage.

We have found a ferplast cage that is big for all three of the girls, but is also fairly low with two low level boards that have very easy access around them. Looking into getting a deal with the pet shop to keep them untill I have my own place and I will take them together and keep them together, for a lower price of course (trying to get all 3 for £10 instead of £5.99 each.

I would personally love to take them, as I said, it made me think of my late grandfather so much I took great heart to them and would love to take them in knowing that I would give them the care and attention they need.

 

[KathyM]

The moral of this story is not to buy animals in petshops - they don't have the welfare of the animals at heart, and by buying them all you've done is create room for them to get more in

As a long time rat owner, I would advise anyone against going to the petshop for them - they'll be undersocialised, bred in rat farms, most probably inbred, and often pregnant. They have higher risk of contracting genetic disease, and more prone to myco related pneumonia flareups.

Saying all that though, this is a valuable lesson in inspecting the health of an animal before bringing it home, no matter what the source. It's worked out okay for you as you're willing to do what's right, but please educate your friend about petshops.

 

[dgwebster]

Indeed. I believe she was suffering from what I call the "kid syndrome" - was so impatient and excited about getting a new pet, did not bother to check it out properly.

 

[KathyM]

Where are the rats now? Sorry, Im getting confused by the posts, are they in the petshop or at your friend's? Please don't let the petshop take them back if they're at your friends. However, if they're still waiting to be sold at the petshop, the kindest thing is to leave them there. Maybe the petshop owner will have trouble selling them and think twice about getting more.

 

[dgwebster]

they are all at the store, but we are looking into getting housing for them and getting them off the store at a less than cost price.

Trust me on this, the two girls that were in the store were very surprised (to the point we had to check the others) and I think I know the pub the owner drinks in - will be going in to have few words. at the very least i know his brother drinks in this place...

 

[KathyM]

I very much doubt you'll be paying less than cost. Most rat farms and even the breeders that supply petshops don't charge more than a pound per rat kitten. They certainly don't pay a tenner for three. I would urge you not to go ahead. I know it's hard, and I wouldn't judge you for taking them out of there, but all you're doing is proving to him that he can even sell "damaged goods" for more than he paid, you're making it well worth his while to do this again and again.

If you're hell bent on taking them out, then I would insist on taking them for free. That way he learns he's not getting paid for selling deformed rat kittens. It can be done, especially if you remind him how difficult it will be to sell them otherwise.

 

[dgwebster]

you make a very good point there, and if we are able to offer them space and care needed, I will certainly target them for free, or donate £1 towards a box to take them home in

 

[Saedcantas]

Perhaps I dont know all that there is to know or am naive, but having worked in the UK pet trade for nearly 7 years the only pet shop chain that I know of who use anything remotely similar to the american "pet farms" and "mills" is Pets@home?

It certainly does sound to me like a genetic problem over some kind of injury. I dont know anything about the shop in question, but in general pet shops here in the uk are small and privately owned deals, the sorts of people who will easily see the bad business (even if animal welfare isnt their bag ) in continuing to buy stock from a breeder that is blatently abnormal or unwell in anyway.

 

[KathyM]

When it comes to rats, there are a huge amount churned out by rat farms, one in particular in Essex has massive business Unfortunately lots of the local pet shops have picked up on how cheap they are (and that they get delivered), and obviously petshops are a business and don't often care about the health of the animals. It's atrocious - and something I didn't find out until relatively recently. Our LPS is supplied by them now despite me begging them not to

 

[dgwebster]

to give you an idea saedcantas, some breeders in the UK use primitive forms of these:

http/biggersandcallaham.com/kreaturekeep...es/rack_rat.png


even that professional one is not good enough.

They may also start out well and try to keep bloodline seperate though it can become difficult to keep seperate (at up to 19/20 kittens a litter, the numbers are large and who's who becomes a forgotten issue in some sad places.)

Even in that rack above, this is in no way adequate for proper breeding and rearing IMO. I know of one person using an even smaller one for hamsters in England was recently arrested for animal cruelty after investigation by the RSPCA

It is a sad state of affairs, however saedcantas makes a solid point - lps's have to rely on quality stock these days, its the only reason people will go to them. Its certainly not for cheaper/convienence, we have pets@home for that. Its to get that bit more care over what you are buying, but everything in that store wih the exception of the love birds were in some kind of trouble.