A little lesson on tank sizes for Cichlids

[Vip]

Alot of people have been asking me what size should i get or can i put 2 of these cichlids in this tank and so on, so i have decided to give everyone a little lesson on tank sizes and why these fish need large tanks

With Livebearers its easy to put 30 of these fish in a 30gal tank and you wont have fighting issues, sure they will end up dieing from being over-crowded but unlike cichlids they wont rip each other apart, but if you where to put 2 Oscars in a 75gal tank then after about 6months or so you would have some real fighting problems, one or the other will claim the tank as his own and will not let another oscar near this tank! ( i have video proof of this ) this doesnt mean you cant have any other fish in the tank it just means you cant have any more oscars in there.

On a recent post someone was asking about putting 2 Blood Parrots in a 20gal tank and also stating that they had very good filtration, now or though he was thinking down the right track for cichlids he didnt know about the territory issues with them, these fish come from part Red Devil/Midas and part somthing else witch makes them VERY TERRITORIAL puting these 2 fish in the tank would end up in one of them dieing because of one of them claiming the tank, but with something like neons, platies and other none cichlid fish this wouldnt happen because they do not claim territory and do not fight over it. If you were to put a single Midas, Red Devil, Jack Dempsy or other agressive cichlids in a 55gal sooner or later YOU wouldnt be able to put your hand in the tank due to them claiming the tank, for those who have seen my videos you will know what im talking about.

So just remember guys with cichlids/hybrids it doesnt matter to much about the size but it matters even more about the territory issue.

Hope this helps you guys out alot.

Damian.


PS: If you have anymore questions please ask them here or through PM.

 

[Ben]

very nice post should be pinned!

and may i add something:
People have also been asking about
APISTOS AND RAMS:

These are the peaceful cichlids, the ones that can go with a group of neons or some livebearers.....
BUT

a pair,which means 2 of them, can not and will not and should not go in a tank less then 20 gallons, no they can not go in a 10 gal., maybe one can but not two as they will take on anything, and i mean ANYTHING when breeding to protect their fry.

They should be kept with peaceful fish,they are not to be kept with the fish Vip mentioned before as they will become their lunch. When not breeding they will do fine with just about anything that isn't not 2 or 3 inches bigger then them. this also means they shouldnt be kept with convicts as they are bought small but too aggresive for the peaceful dwarf That is why they should only be kept in a 20gal or higher, prefrebly higher, This also does not mean you can have more then 1 pair in a 20 gal as they will get territorial and agresive. A really good set up is a 55 gal set up with about 3 pairs of rams/apistos and a group of discus and maybe some cardinal tetras, so remember, the bigger the better

just my $0.02

DD

 

[rvm]

Nice one guys, should be pinned. Too many people don't consider territory issues with cichlids. All well and good having a 75g tank, but just cos they'll fit doesn't mean 2 Oscars are gonna get on!!!
BTW I have seen VIP's vids, and he's right!!

 

[longhorn13]

i agree with what is being said, but individual fish temperment definitely plays a role also. with the 55G tank i bought i inherited some fish with it, namely three parrots and a pair of bolivian rams. i will soon be moving one of the parrots out and the rams will also get their own home, but there has been no trouble in the tank. the parrots sometimes fight amongst themselves, but nothing too bad. they don't ever bother the rams. when the rams are getting ready to breed they actually take on the parrots when they come near the breeding area.

but on the whole, i agree with your post--some of it does come down to each fish's personality though. but if you take that gamble, you could be sentencing a fish to death

 

[longhorn13]

but then again, i haven't taken the step up to bigger, more aggressive cichlids yet either, so i can't talk too intelligently about it.

 

[sub.42]

Errm, Speaking as a relative newbie to Cichlids, and making some reference to my own little drama over the past few weeks, maybe we should assume that all Cichlids, be they small, medium or large, are all territorial as a generic?

My jade eyes are beginning to mature, and they too, even at one to two inches long are beginning the gill flaring and patch claiming that we all speak of.

My next rule is going to be not what is the smallest size tank for a given fish, and how many can I get in there, but more what is the biggest tank that I can accomodate both financially and in terms of space.

I can then give whatever I choose plenty of space, rather than going for smallest poss option, and have happy fish, cos thats whats really important....

Then the Wife will ask me to leave, and remove the 3000 litre monster in the front room at the same time....

I can dream.....the tank, not the wife..

Sub.

 

[mwm]

Nice post! Someone should pin this. I didnt understand why cichlids tank sizes were diffrent the normal fish...Until i got them then relised the 99% of them are the spawns of satan!
Ive seen pics of VIPs hand and ive seen movies...His Cichlids claimed their tank

 

[black convict 0331]

SO TRU THEY CAN GET VERY AGRESIV I ONCE HAD CONBS AND PIRAHANAS 2GETHER BIG MISTAKE CONS STARTED FIGHTS WIT THE PIRAHANAS AND KEPT THEM IN THE CORNER FOR MOST OF THE DAY BUT THE PIRAHANAS ATTACKED @ NIGHT NO 1 DIED BUT I REMOVED THE CONS 2 AVOED COMPLECATIONS AND FIGHTS

 

[Fishy411]

At my Lfs they have 3 parrots in a 30 gallon. On stays by itself and the other two sometimes "fight" one will swim towards the other and then go back and forth and the other one would follow and than swim away

 

[JustinSane]

A good post with good solid points. As a rule of thumb, it could be said that all cichlids occupy a territory, atleast when spawning, though many keep their territories all the time.
That's exactly why in most of the cases it's not a good idea to keep more than a pair / one species of cichlids per tank.
And the size of cichlid doesn't mean anything, Rams for example are puny in size but often have a bigger ego than an oscar

Naturally you can substantially decrease the risk of a conflict with proper interior design of the tank. For example; putting large driftwoods which prevent the fish from seeing each other often helps, hiding places where the underdog can retreat to are just as important Also, the fish tend to occupy their territories based on the "landmarks" of the aquarium, ie. stones, driftwood & other decor. For example; in a bare aquarium the cichlid may assume the whole aquarium as it's territory wheareas should there be a large driftwood "splitting" the tank, it might settle for just half of the tank. So put a lot of "landmarks" in your cichlid tank, it helps them to negotiate their territories, a lot

But there are differences between different individuals of the same species, these fish were talkin about are pretty much as smart as fish can get, Cichlids are by far one of the most advanced fish families around and therefore my personal opinion is that extra attention should be paid to their needs.

 

[longhorn13]

good point--my parrots are a prime example of this. the biggest doesn't seem to care about the other two when they're out swimming around, but if any of them go in his cave...they'd just better watch out

 

[Vip]

Im going to ask for it to be pinned, i think it should help out alot of newbies.

 

[Griz]

Excellent thread!
When dealing with cichlids, throw out the gallons per inch rules if you are keeping more than one. Territory size is much more important. I wanted to add my experience to that of others.

I have a trio of cockatoo cichlids appistogramma cacatuoides 1m/2f which are regarded as being fairly peaceful SA dwarfs. Mine are not quite 2" and the male will be only be 3 1/2" when fully grown. This little male of mine has pretty much decided that the entire tank is his territory. That's 3 square feet! They are in a well planted 33 gal tank with lots of wood, rocks, etc. Tank is 36x12x18 - bottom dimensions are generally more important as far as territory size goes. My fish are fine with their other tankmates but there is no way I could add another appisto. I think that a ram or other small cichlid would also be regarded as a competitor and would be attacked.

This example just goes to show how a small and supposedly peacefull dwarf, in a tank full of structure, requires a territory of roughly 1 square foot per inch of fish. Based on the research I have done, my experience seems to match with the experts, 2-3 sq ft per male is regarded as the norm.

Now, how much room do you figure that big oscar is going to need?

 

[xXMrBonesXx]

Now, how much room do you figure that big oscar is going to need?

75 gallons for 1

ok, i'm getting pretty tired of my community tank and since i have a 38 gallon just sitting around (needs a new frame) so my community will go to it if i can get it fixed, except the ID sharks (going to big al's after xmas sometime) and i'll probably leave 1 Pleco in it,

my question is what can i put in the 67 gallon tank (48x18x18), i'm looking for a bigger more aggressive fish and it will be on its own, i like the looks of the red devils or midas and the trimacs, i saw a trimac at big als once and the thing would go bonkers if you went near the tank it was in, i put my hand on the glass and i could actually feel it pushing the glass , i have about 4-6 fish places within driving distance so i shouldn't have trouble finding something but suggestions are welcome

Thanks

 

[Vip]

if you can get a trumac dude go for it! try and post a picture of it seeing as there alot alot of hubrids going around, but if its pure then get it.