A little 40g update + pH help!

[carligraceee]

Hey guys! Long time no see! I decided to give another update since I have made some more changes and added some things.

Stock:
- Davinci the African Butterfly fish, he has reached around 3.5 inches so far
- 11 Black Phantom Tetras, all around 1.5 inches
- NEW 12 Bleeding Heart Tetras, all around 1.5 inches when bought
- 1 clown loach
- I have gone down to around 3 Kuhli Loaches, I think they have been out competed for food

Issues:
- Algae bloom, trying to see if I want to get some Otos or just hand clean it myself
- High pH levels (around 8) and I need around 6.5-7.5
- AqAdvisor says I am overstocked and only if I am experienced should I have these fish, I am not too worried but it soured my mood
- TONS of shells from the eaten snails

Filtration:
- 40g internal power filter
- Up to 75g sponge filter

Water Changes:
- I try to do around once every two weeks now that I have more fish
- I started out doing once a month

Plants:
- My tank is officially a successful planted aquarium! My plants have taken off and are spreading along the bottom of the tank as well. I will be adding rocks (Dragonstone), Viking ship, and some smaller driftwood pieces to make it more natural.

Parameters:
- Ammonia: 0ppm
- pH: 8
- Temp: 79F
- Nitrates: 5ppm
-Nitrites: 0ppm

I have some things to work on, any tips to lower my pH would be helpful and any rocks that would make my fish feel more at home are also welcome.

 

[robmcd]

Pics or it doesn't exist.....

 

[carligraceee]

Pics or it doesn't exist.....

Haha gotchu!

 

[Byron]

The pH cannot be adjusted without knowing the GH and KH of the source water, and then dealing with all three because they are closely related. What is the GH, KH and pH of your tap water?

Please return the clown loach ASAP. This is a highly social fish, it must have a group of at least five, and it gets very large, 8-12 inches which means a 6-foot tank if not 8-foot. The stress on the lone loach is considerable, I can assure you.

Water changes normally should be once a week, and substantial (50-70% of the tank). This will help with the algae too, as it dilutes nutrients. The light is another likely issue with the algae, what is the daily duration?

 

[carligraceee]

The pH cannot be adjusted without knowing the GH and KH of the source water, and then dealing with all three because they are closely related. What is the GH, KH and pH of your tap water?

Please return the clown loach ASAP. This is a highly social fish, it must have a group of at least five, and it gets very large, 8-12 inches which means a 6-foot tank if not 8-foot. The stress on the lone loach is considerable, I can assure you.

Water changes normally should be once a week, and substantial (50-70% of the tank). This will help with the algae too, as it dilutes nutrients. The light is another likely issue with the algae, what is the daily duration?

Thanks so much!

I was told by my local importer that the loach would be too aggressive towards his friends. I will speak with my mom about it as she really loves him. I am aware of his size, we are still debating whether we will upgrade to a 75g or not once he gets too large for the tank.

I know my GH is around 10ppm. I cannot access the KH but I know my area has moderately hard water.

I have been able to do it less often because of the secondary filtration but I can definitely change that to once a week if it will improve the overall happiness of the fish

 

[Byron]

I was told by my local importer that the loach would be too aggressive towards his friends. I will speak with my mom about it as she really loves him. I am aware of his size, we are still debating whether we will upgrade to a 75g or not once he gets too large for the tank.

Bad advice from whomever. All cyprinids (loaches, barbs, rasboras, danios are in the cyprinid order) are shoaling fish. They live in large groups. This need is programmed into their genetic makeup, so the individual fish "expect" a group, and when denied they suffer stress. Most often this means increased aggression. Scientific studies have proven this without any doubt, as well as shown the fish have a latency to feed, so this is a considerable problem for them. It is true that an individual loachg may be aggressive with another, that is why we say five minimum. The five (or more) will develop an hierarchy within the group, and an "alpha" (often a female) will be "in charge." Tell your mom that to deny this to the fish is inhumane.

A 75g is not sufficient space for the loach, it needs at least a 6-foot long tank. There are other loaches that remain much smaller and are suited to a 75g, but the clown is not one of them.

I know my GH is around 10ppm. I cannot access the KH but I know my area has moderately hard water.

This illustrates the problem with using subjective terms like "moderatly hard." A GH of 10 ppm is very soft water, less than 1 dH. If this is 10 dH, that is on the moderately soft side. A big difference to the fish, so worth resolving. As for the pH, if the GH is 10 ppm, the KH is likely similar, which means the pH will naturally lower on its own due to the organic decomposition over time. If the GH is at 10 dH, the KH could be similar, and that will buffer the pH more to avoid fluctuations. Another issue is, the water authority may add something to increase the pH. This is common in areas with very soft water, to prevent corrosion of the pipes. Check the website of you water authority. I will also mention water softeners...if the GH is this low with a high pH it is possible you have a softener installed. That is another issue.

I have been able to do it less often because of the secondary filtration but I can definitely change that to once a week if it will improve the overall happiness of the fish

This is guaranteed. The more water changed the healthier the fish. I have an article here on the background, have a read.

Regular Partial Water Changes

Byron Hosking November, 2010 (rev April 2021) Nothing is more important when it comes to aquarium maintenance than regular partial water changes. The adage “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” certainly applies here. One frequently reads of products that will reduce the need for...

www.fishforums.net

 

[carligraceee]

Bad advice from whomever. All cyprinids (loaches, barbs, rasboras, danios are in the cyprinid order) are shoaling fish. They live in large groups. This need is programmed into their genetic makeup, so the individual fish "expect" a group, and when denied they suffer stress. Most often this means increased aggression. Scientific studies have proven this without any doubt, as well as shown the fish have a latency to feed, so this is a considerable problem for them. It is true that an individual loachg may be aggressive with another, that is why we say five minimum. The five (or more) will develop an hierarchy within the group, and an "alpha" (often a female) will be "in charge." Tell your mom that to deny this to the fish is inhumane.

A 75g is not sufficient space for the loach, it needs at least a 6-foot long tank. There are other loaches that remain much smaller and are suited to a 75g, but the clown is not one of them.



This illustrates the problem with using subjective terms like "moderatly hard." A GH of 10 ppm is very soft water, less than 1 dH. If this is 10 dH, that is on the moderately soft side. A big difference to the fish, so worth resolving. As for the pH, if the GH is 10 ppm, the KH is likely similar, which means the pH will naturally lower on its own due to the organic decomposition over time. If the GH is at 10 dH, the KH could be similar, and that will buffer the pH more to avoid fluctuations. Another issue is, the water authority may add something to increase the pH. This is common in areas with very soft water, to prevent corrosion of the pipes. Check the website of you water authority. I will also mention water softeners...if the GH is this low with a high pH it is possible you have a softener installed. That is another issue.



This is guaranteed. The more water changed the healthier the fish. I have an article here on the background, have a read.

Regular Partial Water Changes

Byron Hosking November, 2010 (rev April 2021) Nothing is more important when it comes to aquarium maintenance than regular partial water changes. The adage “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” certainly applies here. One frequently reads of products that will reduce the need for...

www.fishforums.net

You have been incredibly helpful. I am going to show my mom this post, she is very reluctant to getting rid of our loach since she had to get rid of our Blue Phantom Pleco awhile back. I am thinking about countering the absence of the loach with a striped raphael catfish since they too eat snails for breakfast and that was the main reason for getting the clown.

I don't have a softner, so I will watch the water for several weeks and see if it improves as I took out the coral that was helping the water harden.

I will also increase my water changes, I usually do a 50% water change anyways!

 

[Byron]

Re-think the raphael catfish (Platydoras armatulus) this is another problem fish. It attains 6+ inches, with 8 inches likely. And that means a 4-foot tank minimum. Usually non-aggressive and peaceful, but likely to eat small fish, shrimp. Nocturnal, it will remain hidden in brightly-lit tanks. It must be provided with several hiding places such as tunnels and crevices in wood. These must be larger than the fish's girth, as they can force themselves into small spaces and be unable to free themselves.

In oher words, this is not a good community tank fish.

As snails are mentioned, there are no snail-eating fish that will not either need a group, or a huge tank, or both. Pufferfish are small, but they have their own needs and are not community tank fish in the sense we are discussing here.

 

[carligraceee]

Re-think the raphael catfish (Platydoras armatulus) this is another problem fish. It attains 6+ inches, with 8 inches likely. And that means a 4-foot tank minimum. Usually non-aggressive and peaceful, but likely to eat small fish, shrimp. Nocturnal, it will remain hidden in brightly-lit tanks. It must be provided with several hiding places such as tunnels and crevices in wood. These must be larger than the fish's girth, as they can force themselves into small spaces and be unable to free themselves.

In oher words, this is not a good community tank fish.

Well look at that. Do you have any recommendations for bottom feeders who love to munch on snails?
I am going to present her this thread either tomorrow or tonight, our loach has been doing pretty well, he is brightly colored and eats like crazy and hasn't shown any aggression but now that I know that they can get aggressive once alone, I am worried that he could be the culprit for the missing Kuhli loaches.. is that possible?

 

[Byron]

Well look at that. Do you have any recommendations for bottom feeders who love to munch on snails?
I am going to present her this thread either tomorrow or tonight, our loach has been doing pretty well, he is brightly colored and eats like crazy and hasn't shown any aggression but now that I know that they can get aggressive once alone, I am worried that he could be the culprit for the missing Kuhli loaches.. is that possible?

This seems to be getting worse...but we are here to help.

On the snails, no, there are no fish that can manage to be healthy in this tank (due to size, numbers or water parameters) that will effectively "eat" snails. In any event, snails are beneficial. What kind are they?

On the loach...yes, the lone clown may well be targetting the kuhlii. This is precisely what I was trying to get across previously. The clown has been forced into what it considers a terrible environment because of the lack of a group. This is proven to increase aggression, and this species has an inherent aggressive nature that can only be handled by providing it with a huge tank and a group. Second point, never combine different loach species. There are a few exceptions, but loaches are loaches and few will see other loach species as "friends."

Do not acquire kuhliis again until this is all sorted out. They too have specific needs; tank size is not as critical (meaning, they do not need a 6-foot tank) but they still have inherent needs.

Each species of freshwater fish has evolved over thousands of years to function in a very specific environment. This means the fish's physiology will only function properly if it has everything it regards as essential, from space to numbers of its own, to water parameters, to necessary habitat decor, to compatible species sharing the space (unlike in nature, an aquarium is always a fixed space and this has serious implications that would never arise in the habitat). The physiology of a fish is more closely tied to its environment than that of any terrestrial animal, which is why fish are the most difficult animals to keep healthy in captivity.

The fact is, that your clown loach has not been doing well at all. It is stressed. All of the above expectations are part of the genetic makeup of the species, and if we want healthy fish we must research these expectations and be prepared to provide them. Anything else is inhumane and frankly cruel to the fish. And since the fish cannot talk to us to tell us this, we must recognize it for ourselves by listening to the biologists and ichthyologists who have spent years studying fish.

 

[StevenF]

I know my GH is around 10ppm. I cannot access the KH but I know my area has moderately hard water.

This illustrates the problem with using subjective terms like "moderatly hard." A GH of 10 ppm is very soft water, less than 1 dH. If this is 10 dH, that is on the moderately soft side. A big difference to the fish, so worth resolving. As for the pH, if the GH is 10 ppm, the KH is likely similar, which means the pH will naturally lower on its own due to the organic decomposition over time. If the GH is at 10 dH, the KH could be similar, and that will buffer the pH more to avoid fluctuations. Another issue is, the water authority may add something to increase the pH. This is common in areas with very soft water, to prevent corrosion of the pipes. Check the website of you water authority. I will also mention water softeners...if the GH is this low with a high pH it is possible you have a softener installed. That is another issue.

I looked at the water quality report and did a general search. The denver water utility is deliberately increasing PH to minimize lead pipe corrosion. Apparently they are adding sodium hydroxide to boost PH. The water quality report doesn't list any numbers for PH, KH, sodium, potassium, calcium, and magneisum. But the water comes from the rocky mountains. meaning it should be soft to very soft.

The addition of a lot of sodium to increase the PH does create a problem or fish. Natural water will have a ballance osodium and potassium in it. But if you add a lot of sodium the ballance is lost. This can make the fish ill or even kill them.
About the only thing you can do is to mix RO water with your tap water or just switch to RO water. But that mans you need to remineralize the RO water.

 

[carligraceee]

I looked at the water quality report and did a general search. The denver water utility is deliberately increasing PH to minimize lead pipe corrosion. Apparently they are adding sodium hydroxide to boost PH. The water quality report doesn't list any numbers for PH, KH, sodium, potassium, calcium, and magneisum. But the water comes from the rocky mountains. meaning it should be soft to very soft.

The addition of a lot of sodium to increase the PH does create a problem or fish. Natural water will have a ballance osodium and potassium in it. But if you add a lot of sodium the ballance is lost. This can make the fish ill or even kill them.
About the only thing you can do is to mix RO water with your tap water or just switch to RO water. But that mans you need to remineralize the RO water.

Hey thanks so much for your reply! What is RO water?

 

[carligraceee]

This seems to be getting worse...but we are here to help.

On the snails, no, there are no fish that can manage to be healthy in this tank (due to size, numbers or water parameters) that will effectively "eat" snails. In any event, snails are beneficial. What kind are they?

On the loach...yes, the lone clown may well be targetting the kuhlii. This is precisely what I was trying to get across previously. The clown has been forced into what it considers a terrible environment because of the lack of a group. This is proven to increase aggression, and this species has an inherent aggressive nature that can only be handled by providing it with a huge tank and a group. Second point, never combine different loach species. There are a few exceptions, but loaches are loaches and few will see other loach species as "friends."

Do not acquire kuhliis again until this is all sorted out. They too have specific needs; tank size is not as critical (meaning, they do not need a 6-foot tank) but they still have inherent needs.

Each species of freshwater fish has evolved over thousands of years to function in a very specific environment. This means the fish's physiology will only function properly if it has everything it regards as essential, from space to numbers of its own, to water parameters, to necessary habitat decor, to compatible species sharing the space (unlike in nature, an aquarium is always a fixed space and this has serious implications that would never arise in the habitat). The physiology of a fish is more closely tied to its environment than that of any terrestrial animal, which is why fish are the most difficult animals to keep healthy in captivity.

The fact is, that your clown loach has not been doing well at all. It is stressed. All of the above expectations are part of the genetic makeup of the species, and if we want healthy fish we must research these expectations and be prepared to provide them. Anything else is inhumane and frankly cruel to the fish. And since the fish cannot talk to us to tell us this, we must recognize it for ourselves by listening to the biologists and ichthyologists who have spent years studying fish.

We have a pest snail problem, the classic "I bought floaters online that were snail free but actually are not snail free" scenario.

I read all of this to my mom and she is a bit reluctant still but I might be able to show her a list of fish that could work for our tank to replace the clown loach and let her pick her favorite. Any cool recommendations for any kind of bottom feeder? I was thinking a smaller pleco since she liked the BP so much.

 

[itiwhetu]

If you do large weekly water changes your pH will never drop. I only ever do 25% maximum this way the pH will fall. If you have enough plant and driftwood adding an organic load to your tank the pH will drop. I have never liked big water changes others love them.

 

[StevenF]

Hey thanks so much for your reply! What is RO water?

Water that has been filter with a reverss osmosis filter. These filter remove most of the minerals in tapster. It can basically convert hard water to very software and remove most of the stuff your utility added to increase PH.