A Few Questions About My New Betta's Tanks

[Devynn]

About four days ago I was at a pet shop where I bought two new fish tanks. They are really cool fish tanks with LED lights that I can pick the colour I want in the tank and it has bubble that come up a tube in the center of the tank in a plastic tube. It says on the box that betta fish are the ideal fish for the tank and the guy at the store said it would be great for a few females or a male fish. I got two of them, one for a betta fish I already had and one to put a few female fish in. I set up the tanks and let them set for 48 hours as the guy at the store said I should. I made sure the temperature was exactly the same in sylvestre's old tank as his new one and did an ammonia test and all came out good so about 5 hours ago I switched him over to his new tank, and I watched him for about 20 minutes just swim around and play with his new surroundings. He seemed to have no problem adjusting to the new tank, so I went back to the pet store to buy the female fish. The guy at the store helped me pick out two fish that he said would do good together while in the same tank so I bought them.

I got back about an hour ago to find my fish sylvestre lying at the bottom of his tank dead. I of course, was very upset to see him dead. He's perfectly healthy, nothing wrong with him. I looked at the top of his tank and saw the bubbles covering the entire top, maybe that's what did it? I flushed him and have left his water for now so I can test it later. My question here is can bubbles kill a betta fish? Or did he just die because it was his time to go? I've only had him since February-ish so it's not like he was old. And he has always been making bubble nests, but they never cover the entire top of the tank and I didn't ever see him breathe from where the bubble were, he'd go to the outside of the nest.

So, after all that, I decided to go ahead and put my new fish into their tank and leave the bubbles off. They both swam around exploring and seemed to love their new tank. Then they found each other at the top of the tank. I have two, a red/white one and a turquoise one. The turquoise one seemed to be fine with the red one, but the red one wasn't very happy. She started nipping at the turquoise one, and the turquoise one swam off a bit, then came back and bit at her. I quickly opened up the tank and pulled the turquoise one out for now. Hopefully I didn't hurt either of them, that red one just would not move away from the turquoise one, I had to force my net between them. Is there any way I can get them used to each other so they can live peacefully side-by-side, or is there just no hope in that? I do have two open tanks, one just like the one the red one is still in and sylvestre's old tank which is just a bowl with a heater so I can keep them separated if needed. I'd just rather put them together as they were intended to be.

Sorry for the long post, I tried to explain everything the best I could.

 

[mixmaster jay]

with any tank you need to cycle it for around 3/4 weeks atleast before you add fish to get the relevant bacterias working in the tank , only one male betta should be kept in one tank alone im not sure about females i think they are ok together but dont quote me on that (im a big fish fan)

 

[Platygirl11]

Another LFS skipping over cycling.
Sorry if you already know this...

Cycling is the process of building up beneficial bacteria in ones filter.
Basically, fish produce ammonia, which is toxic to them. Bacteria eventually develop that consume ammonia and produce nitrite. Nitrite is also toxic. Then, bacteria form that consume nitrite and produce nitrate. For lack of a better phrase, YAAAAY EVERYTHING IS BETTER!
There are two methods of cycling:
A.)Fish out cycling.
This is the best method. I'm not sure on the details, but it involves putting ammonia in every day and waiting for bacteria to develop.
B.)Fish in cycling
This is not a great method. You leave the fish in the tank, and do 2-3 50% water changes every day to keep down ammonia and nitrite. Fish are often damaged permanently if this method is done incorrectly. (Nitrite Poisoning)

A lot of people end up fish in cycling due to bad advice from your fish store. Don't worry, you aren't the only one
Try to get your hands on a bag of filter media from your LFS. This is what saved my fish on my first tank, I'm very sure.
Good luck! (I think there may be pinned topics on cycling in the newbie section. )

 

[Devynn]

Another LFS skipping over cycling.
Sorry if you already know this...

Cycling is the process of building up beneficial bacteria in ones filter.
Basically, fish produce ammonia, which is toxic to them. Bacteria eventually develop that consume ammonia and produce nitrite. Nitrite is also toxic. Then, bacteria form that consume nitrite and produce nitrate. For lack of a better phrase, YAAAAY EVERYTHING IS BETTER!
There are two methods of cycling:
A.)Fish out cycling.
This is the best method. I'm not sure on the details, but it involves putting ammonia in every day and waiting for bacteria to develop.
B.)Fish in cycling
This is not a great method. You leave the fish in the tank, and do 2-3 50% water changes every day to keep down ammonia and nitrite. Fish are often damaged permanently if this method is done incorrectly. (Nitrite Poisoning)

A lot of people end up fish in cycling due to bad advice from your fish store. Don't worry, you aren't the only one
Try to get your hands on a bag of filter media from your LFS. This is what saved my fish on my first tank, I'm very sure.
Good luck! (I think there may be pinned topics on cycling in the newbie section. )

Wow, I've had three betta fish in the past and never knew this. I'll go find those threads and read them, and try to start this tomorrow. I always though you just did a full water change every 3 to 4 days to keep the ammonia levels down. Thanks!

I'm still wondering if there is any way I can keep my female fish from fighting with each other. Oh, and if bubbles can kill a betta fish if they cover the entire top. I'll turn the bubbles on a take a pic if that makes no sense how I'm describing it.

 

[tibby25731]

firstly, I think the bubbles you describe are coming from an undergravel filter. Therefore, turning it off means no filtration. Not good. Is there a way to regulate the bubbles so you get less/ If not, it might be an idea to pull this out and replace with a standard filter. With one of these, if you can scrounge some filter sponge from someone who has an established tank, this will help a lot. Get enough sponge to fill at least half of your filter, give your friend some new sponge to replace theirs. Keep the sponge wet, in fact take a little water from your friends tank and pop it in a bag with the sponge. Then hurry home and put it straight into your filter, add some more sponge (new) to any space that might be left, and turn it on immediately. The waste that your fish produce will keep the bacteria alive and they will very soon reproduce enough to keep your tank healthy. For the first week, do a test every day to look for ammonia or nitrite - if either of these show, do a water change of 50% to remove them.

When the filter is fully cycled, then you only have to do a 20-25% water change once a week to keep things good.

I don't think the bubbles themselves would harm a fish, but if they covered the whole surface of the tank, then how would your fish breathe? Remember, bettas breathe air, and if they cannot get to the surface to take a gulp, then they would drown.

As for the girls - 2 together is a no no. You need at least 4 females to spread out any aggression. However, whether you can have this many depends on the size of the tank. How many litres does it hold? I think you would need at least 60 litres for 4-5 females, and also you would need to provide lots of plant cover and hiding places.

 

[Platygirl11]

Good luck!
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...24306&st=20

 

[Devynn]

firstly, I think the bubbles you describe are coming from an undergravel filter. Therefore, turning it off means no filtration. Not good. Is there a way to regulate the bubbles so you get less/ If not, it might be an idea to pull this out and replace with a standard filter. With one of these, if you can scrounge some filter sponge from someone who has an established tank, this will help a lot. Get enough sponge to fill at least half of your filter, give your friend some new sponge to replace theirs. Keep the sponge wet, in fact take a little water from your friends tank and pop it in a bag with the sponge. Then hurry home and put it straight into your filter, add some more sponge (new) to any space that might be left, and turn it on immediately. The waste that your fish produce will keep the bacteria alive and they will very soon reproduce enough to keep your tank healthy. For the first week, do a test every day to look for ammonia or nitrite - if either of these show, do a water change of 50% to remove them.

When the filter is fully cycled, then you only have to do a 20-25% water change once a week to keep things good.

I don't think the bubbles themselves would harm a fish, but if they covered the whole surface of the tank, then how would your fish breathe? Remember, bettas breathe air, and if they cannot get to the surface to take a gulp, then they would drown.

As for the girls - 2 together is a no no. You need at least 4 females to spread out any aggression. However, whether you can have this many depends on the size of the tank. How many litres does it hold? I think you would need at least 60 litres for 4-5 females, and also you would need to provide lots of plant cover and hiding places.

It's about 12 litres. If I put several caves and fake plants in there, would I be able to have four fish or is it just way too small. The bubbles never reach the under gravel filter system that is indeed built in. the bubbles come from a bubble stone that is connected to a thin plastic tube and inside a larger plastic tube. I'll attach a picture.



Thank you for the link, platygirl11. I'm reading through it and other threads and I think I understand cycling. I'll go to the store and buy what I need tomorrow.

 

[Platygirl11]

Hm. Is that airline tubing? AND rigid piping? Is it there for decoration only? If it is, couldn't you make a sponge filter out of it? They're great for holding bacteria.
So, fish out cycling for you? Sorry you had to learn the hard way.

 

[Devynn]

Hm. Is that airline tubing? AND rigid piping? Is it there for decoration only? If it is, couldn't you make a sponge filter out of it? They're great for holding bacteria.
So, fish out cycling for you? Sorry you had to learn the hard way.

Yep, decoration. It looks pretty cool too.

She's not dead yet, but she sure is acting like my first fish did when he died after I had him for two years. I'm going to return her tomorrow regardless of if she is dead or not.

As for my white/red female fish, she is in an established bowl. The same bowl I've had betta fish in for over two years, so I'm sure she'll be fine. Thank you again.

 

[Platygirl11]

Can you remove the pipe, punch a few holes in the lower part of it, then put it in the bottom of an empty fish food container? Then pour gravel around the pipe, and fit some sponge on top of that. Put it back in, and you've got a sponge filter!
Then you can choose to fish-out or fish-in cycle. I don't know if bowls can ever be established.

 

[Honeythorn]

They can't. Not enough to provide a stable colony of bacteria that can process the waste of a betta. It may only be one fish, but a bowl is FAR too small, and has too small a floorspace ( the base is often smaller in diameter than the top in many bowls ) to hold enough gravel to provide that important bacteria.

Yet another reason to ban bowls and get a proper 5 gal tank with a filter.

 

[Platygirl11]

I think bettas are much happier in 5 gals, and many users have noticed increased activity in larger tanks. This means happy bettas!

I think bettas are much happier in 5 gals, and many users have noticed increased activity in larger tanks. This means happy bettas!