9 Gallon Reef Tank?

[slakey]

Hey, I've had sitting in the spare room my old Clear Seal [font="Arial][size="2"]Mini Pentagon Aquarium.[/size][/font]
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[font="Arial][size="2"]I've been thinking that once I get a job, I'd possibly like to actually make use out of it, so I'm just trying to get some idea's together. One of my wants would be to turn it into a reef tank, but I'm unsure how much it would cost to get it up and running *without fish or corals*[/size][/font]
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[font="Arial][size="2"]Also would I be able to use the water from my tap *had a water softner installed this year*.[/size][/font]
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[font="Arial][size="2"]So yeah any idea's of the final pricing?[/size][/font]
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[font="Arial][size="2"]The actual tank shape:

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[font="Arial][size="2"]Also is there such a thing as an easy reef tank? I don't want something that is stupidly high maintenance, so with that thought in my head the reef tank idea kinda goes away, but by all means if there is such a thing I'll consider it.[/size][/font]
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[font="Arial][size="2"]Thanks[/size][/font]

 

[slakey]

I think I may be out of my league, having just looked at some journals. I would in general just like to keep live rock, no fish but I doubt that's possible, or any easier then keeping both live rock and fish.

Maybe I should just try a tropical plant tank first

 

[-Nemo-]

Have you ever kept a saltwater tank before?

If not, one this small may prove difficult for you. I would definitely suggest weekly 25% water changes. Small water volumes = quick disasters.

I would just keep a couple small fish in there. Looks at little gobies, like shrimp gobies.



Water for your tap, might be tricky. Some people have good tap water, others do not. It might be best for you to use RO water, or at least a combo of RO and tap.

 

[slakey]

Well before the softner was installed I had a good tropical pH but the nitrite/nitrate/ammonia were a bit high.

I've never done a saltwater tank before.

I doubt I can get an RO system installed.

Would I need to do a 25% water change if it was just live rock?

If so, then I may just leave it to another day to start a reef tank, when I have more money and space.

 

[Morri]

That small a tank could be a challange but is doable as long imo that you only keep inverts and Corals and maybe one of the smaller gobies at a push.

RO Water should be no issue as most fish shops sell it I buy mine salted atm for £4.50 for 25L that would last a few weeks on a 9 Gall.

If you have not done so have a read of Jennybugs Edge its a good example of what can be done in a small tank imo.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/292179-im-on-the-edge/

 

[-Nemo-]

nitrite nitrate and ammonia levels wouldn't be caused by your tap water.


With just live rock, no you would not necessarily have to do a weekly water change, but why would you just leave live rock in there? Or do you mean live rock with coral?

If that's the case, coral have a much lower bio-load on your system compared to fish, so you could go longer without a change technically.

 

[AK77]

Setting up a marine tank, even a nano, isn't cheap. Live rock, salt, refractometer, test kits, sand, heaters, water pumps, lighting all add up to a small fortune.. and that's before you've even added your fish and corals.

Nano tanks are also not the best place for a beginner to start. The smaller the volume of water, the quicker the water chemistry can change, due to evapouration and the build up of pollutants like ammonia.

Tap water is fine to use in a saltwater aquarium, provided you have a fish only tank and dechlorinate it. Using dechlorinated tap water with live rock is a no-no too IMO, as the copper dissolved in it will contaminate the rocks and potentially rule out keeping corals in the future as they and invertebrates are highly sensitive to it. Its a definite no in a reef tank.

Tap water can also be a source of high nitrates, which although it won't harm the fish (within reason - marine fish are more tolerant of high nitrates than freshwater), what it will result in is nightmare algae blooms and you will be forever scraping the gunk off your tank.

Your tank would probably be acceptable as a quarantine tank, so don't get rid of it. Save your money and plan your tank. I'd recommend a minimum size of about 120 liters (Juwel lido size). If you want to have a sump, then make all the alterations you need prior to setting up the tank.

There is a lot to take in initially, compared to a freshwater tank. Reading and educating yourself on the hobby is also something you can do while you save and plan your tank as it will stand you in good stead and help limit disasters.

Cheers,

AK

 

[slakey]

I have owned a Juwel Rio? 125 and a Juwel Rio 300 in the past, of freshwater fish. Both have been sold.

I'm not fussed about keeping fish in there, but I'd like the live rock and the coral, just something nice to look at. It's either a nano reef, or a planted freshwater aquarium.

Also I won't be upgrading etc, so that tank will have to do for life.

 

[AK77]

I have owned a Juwel Rio? 125 and a Juwel Rio 300 in the past, of freshwater fish. Both have been sold.

I'm not fussed about keeping fish in there, but I'd like the live rock and the coral, just something nice to look at. It's either a nano reef, or a planted freshwater aquarium.

Also I won't be upgrading etc, so that tank will have to do for life.

If you aren't having fish then it will make things slightly easier in terms of the bio-load. Some live rock and corals should easily be achievable. Have you considered a species specific tank? What about a peacock mantis shrimp? They are awesome creatures with beautiful colours. They will quite happily sit there all day waiting for you to drop some food in for them to eat. They are also highly intelligent.

 

[milkton]

why is everyone so worried???

slakey, from what i read from your posts, that is perfectly acceptable and suitable.. even for a beginner, assuming u have the time to take care of the tank.
steps:
1. research how to set up a salt water tank (google)
2. after setting up water add the live rock and let cycle for 1 month. 1-2 lbs live rock per gallon
3. buy clean up crew (hermits, snails, etc..) also reasearch on that as well, especially nassarius snails.
4. if your clean up crew has survived and u have checked all your water parameters and they are all fine, u should be good to go. you may add a small goby if u like, perfectly up to you.
5. now finally, u may add some coral. assuming ur light is not that strong, you may only be able to keep zoanthids (MAYBE) , mushrooms (MAYBE), and non photosynthetic corals. ex. sun coral (very beautiful)
btw, i shoulda mentioned before i listed the corals but could u tell me what light u have?

REMEMBER, VERY IMPORTANT ***IF THE TANK HAS BEEN IN CONTACT WITH COPPER (MOST MEDICATIONS CONTAIN) THEN THE TANK CAN ONLY BE A FISH ONLY TANK, INVERTS ARE AMAZINGLY SENSITIVE TO COPPER AND WILL DIE***

RO water can be bought at stores for relatively cheap prices. ask your dealer for livestock suitable for your tank, once they refer a livestock for you, go home and RESEARCH BEFORE YOU BUY, many dealers are what i call "noobs" lol, not all, but some are.

about 10-20% water change per 2 weeks if u dont have fish and 10-20% water change per week if u have fish.

if u have read this far, then i wish u good luck and success to your first marine tank

 

[AK77]

why is everyone so worried???

slakey, from what i read from your posts, that is perfectly acceptable and suitable.. even for a beginner, assuming u have the time to take care of the tank.
steps:
1. research how to set up a salt water tank (google)
2. after setting up water add the live rock and let cycle for 1 month. 1-2 lbs live rock per gallon
3. buy clean up crew (hermits, snails, etc..) also reasearch on that as well, especially nassarius snails.
4. if your clean up crew has survived and u have checked all your water parameters and they are all fine, u should be good to go. you may add a small goby if u like, perfectly up to you.
5. now finally, u may add some coral. assuming ur light is not that strong, you may only be able to keep zoanthids (MAYBE) , mushrooms (MAYBE), and non photosynthetic corals. ex. sun coral (very beautiful)
btw, i shoulda mentioned before i listed the corals but could u tell me what light u have?

REMEMBER, VERY IMPORTANT ***IF THE TANK HAS BEEN IN CONTACT WITH COPPER (MOST MEDICATIONS CONTAIN) THEN THE TANK CAN ONLY BE A FISH ONLY TANK, INVERTS ARE AMAZINGLY SENSITIVE TO COPPER AND WILL DIE***

RO water can be bought at stores for relatively cheap prices. ask your dealer for livestock suitable for your tank, once they refer a livestock for you, go home and RESEARCH BEFORE YOU BUY, many dealers are what i call "noobs" lol, not all, but some are.

about 10-20% water change per 2 weeks if u dont have fish and 10-20% water change per week if u have fish.

if u have read this far, then i wish u good luck and success to your first marine tank

I think its sensible to make beginners fully aware of the challenges of keeping a marine tank and how to minimize the chances of it crashing. Erring on the side of caution until someone is proficient in keeping marines goes a long way to avoiding disappointment and jacking the hobby in because it cost so much and never got to enjoy the results.

Marine tanks, like any pet, are a tie-down. You can't go away without someone to take care of them. Smaller tanks definitely require more patience, attention and maintenance, the latter being something Slakey doesn't want to spend his time frequently doing. If someone doesn't have the time to perform regular water changes, the daily RO water top-up or observe the health of the tank inhabitants, one dead critter can lead to one dead coral and the tank will nuke itself very quickly.

For example, in my nano, all of my hermit crabs died from some mystery ailment. I later found out the following week that about 200 had died in the tank at the LFS. Had I not been paying attention to the fact that hermits weren't moving around my tank, an ammonia spike could quickly have ensued, killing the corals and subsequently my fish. In my old 180L tank with 50L sump, 5 dead hermit crabs wouldn't have been an issue because of the larger water volume and larger amount of LR that would feed on any ammonia created.

Yes this little tank would be perfectly acceptable for a nano but, unlike a larger tank, they do require regular maintenance. With nano tanks, the daily RO top-up is more important than the fornightly water change. On my 60L nano, I have to top up about 3L a day of RO water and replace whatever salt water the protein skimmer takes out as well. On particularly warm days, this can rise to 5L of RO. Failing to perform this daily routine will very quickly knock the water chemistry out of whack and the SG to rise to dangerous levels which again, will nuke the tank contents or nitrate levels to become toxic enough that the corals perish. A long weekend away at a V Festival in the summer is enough to do cause the above. I'm also fortunate enough to have my own RO machine but, for those that don't, the weekly trip to the LFS to hump back 25-50 Litres of water is another chore often overlooked. If you don't drive, or are unable to get to the LFS due to work commitments or even ill health, having no RO water available can be problematic.

This is why many people on here, myself included, suggest that nano tanks aren't the best place for begginers to start, purely because they aren't so forgiving to those who don't have or aren't prepared to invest their time. We're not saying it can't be done but, people new to the hobby will be largely unaware of everything involved and we would be doing them an injustice by not drawing their attention to it.

Cheers,

AK

 

[milkton]

why is everyone so worried???

slakey, from what i read from your posts, that is perfectly acceptable and suitable.. even for a beginner, assuming u have the time to take care of the tank.
steps:
1. research how to set up a salt water tank (google)
2. after setting up water add the live rock and let cycle for 1 month. 1-2 lbs live rock per gallon
3. buy clean up crew (hermits, snails, etc..) also reasearch on that as well, especially nassarius snails.
4. if your clean up crew has survived and u have checked all your water parameters and they are all fine, u should be good to go. you may add a small goby if u like, perfectly up to you.
5. now finally, u may add some coral. assuming ur light is not that strong, you may only be able to keep zoanthids (MAYBE) , mushrooms (MAYBE), and non photosynthetic corals. ex. sun coral (very beautiful)
btw, i shoulda mentioned before i listed the corals but could u tell me what light u have?

REMEMBER, VERY IMPORTANT ***IF THE TANK HAS BEEN IN CONTACT WITH COPPER (MOST MEDICATIONS CONTAIN) THEN THE TANK CAN ONLY BE A FISH ONLY TANK, INVERTS ARE AMAZINGLY SENSITIVE TO COPPER AND WILL DIE***

RO water can be bought at stores for relatively cheap prices. ask your dealer for livestock suitable for your tank, once they refer a livestock for you, go home and RESEARCH BEFORE YOU BUY, many dealers are what i call "noobs" lol, not all, but some are.

about 10-20% water change per 2 weeks if u dont have fish and 10-20% water change per week if u have fish.

if u have read this far, then i wish u good luck and success to your first marine tank

I think its sensible to make beginners fully aware of the challenges of keeping a marine tank and how to minimize the chances of it crashing. Erring on the side of caution until someone is proficient in keeping marines goes a long way to avoiding disappointment and jacking the hobby in because it cost so much and never got to enjoy the results.

Marine tanks, like any pet, are a tie-down. You can't go away without someone to take care of them. Smaller tanks definitely require more patience, attention and maintenance, the latter being something Slakey doesn't want to spend his time frequently doing. If someone doesn't have the time to perform regular water changes, the daily RO water top-up or observe the health of the tank inhabitants, one dead critter can lead to one dead coral and the tank will nuke itself very quickly.

For example, in my nano, all of my hermit crabs died from some mystery ailment. I later found out the following week that about 200 had died in the tank at the LFS. Had I not been paying attention to the fact that hermits weren't moving around my tank, an ammonia spike could quickly have ensued, killing the corals and subsequently my fish. In my old 180L tank with 50L sump, 5 dead hermit crabs wouldn't have been an issue because of the larger water volume and larger amount of LR that would feed on any ammonia created.

Yes this little tank would be perfectly acceptable for a nano but, unlike a larger tank, they do require regular maintenance. With nano tanks, the daily RO top-up is more important than the fornightly water change. On my 60L nano, I have to top up about 3L a day of RO water and replace whatever salt water the protein skimmer takes out as well. On particularly warm days, this can rise to 5L of RO. Failing to perform this daily routine will very quickly knock the water chemistry out of whack and the SG to rise to dangerous levels which again, will nuke the tank contents or nitrate levels to become toxic enough that the corals perish. A long weekend away at a V Festival in the summer is enough to do cause the above. I'm also fortunate enough to have my own RO machine but, for those that don't, the weekly trip to the LFS to hump back 25-50 Litres of water is another chore often overlooked. If you don't drive, or are unable to get to the LFS due to work commitments or even ill health, having no RO water available can be problematic.

This is why many people on here, myself included, suggest that nano tanks aren't the best place for begginers to start, purely because they aren't so forgiving to those who don't have or aren't prepared to invest their time. We're not saying it can't be done but, people new to the hobby will be largely unaware of everything involved and we would be doing them an injustice by not drawing their attention to it.

Cheers,

AK

agreed with everything you say, happens to me commonly. but lets be serious here, all that said is basically trying to inform you to be careful of fluctuating watar param. When i first started marines, i started with a 2.5 gallon with corals, and everything is still near-perfect. 1 key fact is to be patient and use common sense. Im with you though AK, beginners should start with IMO 55 gallons FO aquariums but just saying nano tanks for beginners can be done if you truly share the passion of fish keeping like i do . 1 thing i would like to speak for all of us is that everyone loves to be smart, and a professional but many things you hear are somewhat exagerated and not as much will matter. If u really want to start a nano salt water aquarium, i wouldnt think your some kind of idiot because if someone like me can do it, so can you. just remember, RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH. good luck

 

[slakey]

Was babysitting last night for someone I know, he has had a very big collection of fish, mostly all cichlids *converted his double garage into a fish room*. Anyway, in the living room I saw his nano marine tank

It was basically what I want, but without the fish, shrimp and crabs.

So having just looked at what the tank possibly was on the internet, they come in at £185+ for a 24G Not very happy about that.

But I was wondering would a Arcadia Arc be better then the current Clear-Seal tank that I have?

I do like the idea of hiding away the heater/filter etc, which is do-able and already done with the Nano Cubes, but I don't think you can with the Arc.

Are there any other tank makes that have a hiding compartment for the filter, heater etc?

I did look at the Fluval Edge Designer, but unsure if the filter and heater were hidden in that black object in the middle of the tank.

Some links:
Fluval Edge
Arcadia Arc

 

[slakey]

Another question *sorry for the double post*

How difficult are anemones to keep?

Is it possible to keep just anemones and live rock?

Thanks.

EDIT: Cancel that idea, have just read on a website that keeping anemones isn't for beginners, as they require expensive lighting and excellent water conditions


That is what I mainly wanted, a anemone only tank. Ah well, that's my little wish bubble burst.


What is the ideal saltwater starter? For the tank size I can have?


Fish or No Fish?
Live Rock or No Live Rock?
Coral or No Coral?


I'm just looking to get set something up that is nice to look out, with or without fish, my first preference would be without fish, but since I won't be able to keep anemones *according to a website* I can only think that my tank will look dull?

 

[AK77]

Another question *sorry for the double post*

How difficult are anemones to keep?

Is it possible to keep just anemones and live rock?

Thanks.

EDIT: Cancel that idea, have just read on a website that keeping anemones isn't for beginners, as they require expensive lighting and excellent water conditions


That is what I mainly wanted, a anemone only tank. Ah well, that's my little wish bubble burst.


What is the ideal saltwater starter? For the tank size I can have?


Fish or No Fish?
Live Rock or No Live Rock?
Coral or No Coral?


I'm just looking to get set something up that is nice to look out, with or without fish, my first preference would be without fish, but since I won't be able to keep anemones *according to a website* I can only think that my tank will look dull?

If you have the tools and the time, you could make your own tank from acrylic. If you look at my journal, you can see the one I made from acrylic and how its progressed. Everything is hidden in my tank. You see no heaters or powerheads. At the moment its not got a lot of corals in it. I was hoping to get some more today but, It's had to be put off until tomorrow.

As for anenomes in nano tanks, they are a no-no. If they pop their clogs, then they can take everything else with them. In a large tank the impact isn't so great, for the reasons I outlined in earlier posts. They also move around and "hunt" so any fish that would normally avoid them in a large tank would find it much harder to do so in a nano.

Your tank will be fine to use if you so wish but, you will have to pay more attention to it, particularly in the beginning, until it stabilizes and then just make sure you perform the daily ritual of topping up the RO water and feeding the critters. I would suggest a FOWLR at first, with a yellow watchman goby and a pistol shrimp. Fascinating to watch. The fish and shrimp form a symbiotic relationship. The shrimp makes the home in the sand and continuously maintains it, while the goby stands guard and sometimes brings food back for the shrimp to eat.

A FOWLR is essentially just a naked reef. Once you are proficient in keeping everything alive and happy and your water parameters are stable, then you can start adding corals. Xenia are a good place to start or leather corals. Zoa's are also easy to keep as are mushrooms. All will do fine under T5 lighting. There are some stunning nano tanks. Believe me, your tank won't look dull without an anenome. Once you have a good selection of corals in there and some livestock, you'll just lie there watching them.