65 gallon tank stocking

[kamanut]

Thank you!

I just checked my gh and kh of the tap water that has sat in the aquarium for about 5 days. This time kh was 42...it seriously took 42 drops to get the color change. Gh is still around 1. I also checked the pH of the tank and it is 8.4, which is what I assumed it was.

 

[Byron]

As plants have been mentioned...

A zero or very low GH can mean a deficiency in calcium and magnesium for plants. This depends upon the plants, and there are ways to deal with it. Most authorities (people like Diana Walstad) will tell you that a GH of 4 dH is about as low as you want to get for plants; the intent behind this is correct, that calcium and magnesium at this GH (or above) will (should) provide sufficient for most plants. But this has implications for fish.

If you read my posts in the other thread on TDS/GH you will easily understand how significant the impact of GH/TDS levels are on soft water fish. They can really gum up the works. Some 7 or 8 years ago I was led into using Equilibrium (a Seachem product that adds calcium and magnesium and minimal amounts of a couple other minerals) to improve my plants which showed signs of calcium deficiency, and it worked. I had the GH around 5 to 6 dH. However, in subsequent discussions with a marine biologist when trying to solve a serious problem for one tank of fish I began to see these detriments much more clearly [I clearly fell into the trap of not following my own advice in that afore-mentioned article] and stopped the Equilibrium altogether. The swords were the hardest hit by the calcium deficiency, so I put a Flourish Tab into the substrate next to each of them. After a few weeks, it was obvious the plants were improving. The Tabs do not release minerals into the water column [no idea how Seachem manage to do this, but they make the claim and so far no one has proven it wrong] so the GH remains zero and the fish are happier.

Calcium and magnesium are macro-nutrients for plants, and most assume sufficient levels will be present in the source water, so fertilizers like Flourish Comprehensive contain minimal levels of these. The tabs clearly supplement them.

 

[seangee]

What is your substrate? Try testing straight out of the tap to see if it is increasing in the tank. It may not be but its worth testing. No need to let it stand, gh and kh do not change over time.

 

[kamanut]

What is your substrate? Try testing straight out of the tap to see if it is increasing in the tank. It may not be but its worth testing. No need to let it stand, gh and kh do not change over time.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I have already tested the tap water. GH of 1-2 and KH of 38. My substrate is Black Diamond blasting sand (aka coal slag).

 

[Byron]

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I have already tested the tap water. GH of 1-2 and KH of 38. My substrate is Black Diamond blasting sand (aka coal slag).

A caution, do not have any substrate level fish with blasting sand. It is, as the name implies, somewhat sharp and rough in order to be effective at blasting. Substrate fish like loaches, cories, plecos, and those who naturally feed by sifting substrate which includes cichlids, can be seriously harmed by this material.

 

[kamanut]

A caution, do not have any substrate level fish with blasting sand. It is, as the name implies, somewhat sharp and rough in order to be effective at blasting. Substrate fish like loaches, cories, plecos, and those who naturally feed by sifting substrate which includes cichlids, can be seriously harmed by this material.

Thanks. I had read a lot on it and there are many people who seem to have no issues with it, so I thought it would be fine. I have used pool sand successfully before as well, with no issues.

 

[Byron]

Thanks. I had read a lot on it and there are many people who seem to have no issues with it, so I thought it would be fine. I have used pool sand successfully before as well, with no issues.

Pool filter sand is usually OK from the aspect of roughness (if it is white, no good for fish). But none of the industrial sands (except play sand) are safe because they are not refined so they will be rough in order to be effective at blasting, concrete binding (paver sands), etc.

Play Sand is the most highly refined of the industrial sands.

You cannot take anyone's word that the industrial sands are safe. Each batch can be different. Seachem's Flourite plant substrate is said to be safe, but it is not. I had it in a tank several years ago and within a few days the barbels on all the cories disappeared, and one little panda even had about 1/3 of its lower jaw sliced off. In my hand it felt OK, but obviously not. The fish all recovered after I immediately moved them to another tank with play sand, and even the "missing mouth" panda healed, though it looks rather odd with part of the lower jaw missing. But today some 7 years after that fiasco, they are all still with me. Cories sift sand through their gills, and you can image the damage sharp and rough grains of sand will cause to the delicate gill filaments.

 

[kamanut]

That sounds horrible, Byron. Thanks for letting me know.

I checked my water at work just to compare it to my well...GH of 0, KH of 7. So would it be beneficial to collect some of this water in town (I run a business so the water is "free" to me as we never use the minimum amount that we pay for) and mix it with my well water? Or just use water from town solely and make sure to dechlorinate it?

 

[Byron]

That sounds horrible, Byron. Thanks for letting me know.

I checked my water at work just to compare it to my well...GH of 0, KH of 7. So would it be beneficial to collect some of this water in town (I run a business so the water is "free" to me as we never use the minimum amount that we pay for) and mix it with my well water? Or just use water from town solely and make sure to dechlorinate it?

Mixing water is one option, or using straight "town" water. You can remove carbonates (the KH) by boiling, but boiling large volumes of water is tedious.

 

[kamanut]

Mixing water is one option, or using straight "town" water. You can remove carbonates (the KH) by boiling, but boiling large volumes of water is tedious.

I'll probably just use town water. I haven't checked pH, but it seems to be a better option than my well water, and I only live 4 miles from town so it's not a huge deal to make a few trips back and forth with water. I'll check the pH of the water and then we can look at what fish would do best in this situation. Thanks!

 

[kamanut]

Alright, pH is around 8.2 in town. So, fish suggestions for a 60 gallon tank with a GH of 0, KH of 7?? Also plant recommendations? I did buy this light: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F6XD2FH/?tag=ff0d01-20

 

[kamanut]

As an update, I did get a TDS meter. In the tank with about 50% town water, TDS is 700. From the tap in my house, TDS is 1000+. So, should I be planning for hard water fish now??? This is so confusing but I want my fish to thrive.

 

[Byron]

Alright, pH is around 8.2 in town. So, fish suggestions for a 60 gallon tank with a GH of 0, KH of 7?? Also plant recommendations? I did buy this light: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F6XD2FH/?tag=ff0d01-20

That light should be good, going from the specs at the link. Might be bright (thinking of the fish), so floating plants will help. Lower plants, depends what sort of aquascape you intend.

As for fish, just consider the soft water species which is most from South America, and SE Asia.

As an update, I did get a TDS meter. In the tank with about 50% town water, TDS is 700. From the tap in my house, TDS is 1000+. So, should I be planning for hard water fish now??? This is so confusing but I want my fish to thrive.

I have never bothered over TDS, but then I know they are low in my source water, and those occurring within the aquarium naturally will be removed through my water changes.

GH is one aspect of TDS, and the one we tend to fuss over because the dissolved mineral can seriously affect soft water fish.

 

[kamanut]

That light should be good, going from the specs at the link. Might be bright (thinking of the fish), so floating plants will help. Lower plants, depends what sort of aquascape you intend.

As for fish, just consider the soft water species which is most from South America, and SE Asia.

I have never bothered over TDS, but then I know they are low in my source water, and those occurring within the aquarium naturally will be removed through my water changes.

GH is one aspect of TDS, and the one we tend to fuss over because the dissolved mineral can seriously affect soft water fish.

So even with a TDS that high, you'd still recommend soft water fish? It's the GH (calcium and mg) not the KH that affects the kidneys and osmotic regulation? Just want to make sure I'm clear on that before I start picking out fish. Thank you!

 

[Byron]

So even with a TDS that high, you'd still recommend soft water fish? It's the GH (calcium and mg) not the KH that affects the kidneys and osmotic regulation? Just want to make sure I'm clear on that before I start picking out fish. Thank you!

Yes to all questions here.

That is not intended to discount TDS, but unless you go with RO (or another pure) water there is not much you can do about the TDS in the source water. Obviously the TDS that occur within the tank as the fish feed and interact can be significantly reduced with water changes, which is one reason many of us recommend substantial weekly changes of 60-70%.

Also be cognizant of adding TDS yourself. Every substance added to the tank water adds TDS...water conditioner, plant additives, any water additives, medications, treatments, etc, are all increasing TDS. Use only what is essential when it comes to conditioner and plant fertilizers, don't overfeed, and you will reduce TDS accumulation.