58g Community - A Planted Solution?

[coldmachineUK]

Hi there,
I've been reading the stickies and various articles about setting up a planted solution for an FW tank, and have decided to take the plunge.

Here's where I'm at:

- 55G tank (well it's 58G but with substrate we'll call it 55G): 120cm x 46cm x 40cm
- 72W lighting (2x 36W T5 compact flourescent)
- I've purchased Seachem Flourish Excel, 500g of powdered mono potassium phosphate, and 500g of powdered potassium nitrate. All of which has yet to arrive.

I've read up on the EI dosing instructions (the idea will be to make a solution I think, using the powders, and keep that stored. I think it will be much easier to gage dosage based on ml than in fractions of tsp!).

I have yet to purchase a co2 system, and this is where I'm struggling the most. Dosing ferts seems fairly (not completely!) clear, but the choice of co2 options is driving me crazy, I really have no idea what to do.

So again here is where I'm at:

- I saw the Hydor NRG Exclusive system. It's pressurised which makes me think it will be easier to manage lowering or turning off injection at night, which for me is something I really want to do. I don't have a pH electrode, only the API test kit, so I want to be sure I'm not causing wild pH swings at night. The unit satisfies a 300L tank, and mine is 220L so it would be fine I think.
- I read about the Hagen Nutrafin co2 system on here: which unit is this? Anyone got a link to an online retailer which sells it? Looking at the description of the ppm it provides, it sounds as if for a 220L I would need two units. Am I better off with two units (and double the maintenance and therefore double the risk of overdosing), or better off with the more expensive Hydor unit that can dose for a tank my size?

The risks? My tank has some sensitive fish (schistura loaches, some botia loaches, an elephantnose, and cories being the main inhabitants in this category). I am extremely concerned, particularly about the schistura, with the risks of overdosing or causing problems. I've made mistakes in fishkeeping before, but if I overdosed and killed my schistura I would never be able to forgive myself...
Any tips on possible disasters, and how to prepare for them?

Thanks in advance for any info/support/advice!

 

[George Farmer]

Hi and welcome to TFF!

You don't have much light there.

With CO2 and EI dosing I would consider acheiving around 2wpg to get the best from your plants. With your current lighting you may have difficulty with some of the more difficult plants. If you stick to your lighting then I wouldn't bother with CO2 at all. This is a good read if you do decide on non-CO2 - http/www.barrreport.com/estimative-index...o2-methods.html


I've no experience of the Hydor NRG system but have heard negative reports.

The Nutrafin system is yeast-based and I wouldn't recommend them for a tank of your size, as you'd need three units - lots of work!

I can personally recommend Dennerle pressurized system. I have also heard good reports on JBL and D&D systems.

If you use a solenoid linked to the lights then CO2 build-up at night is not an issue.

 

[2pods]

Some of us have bought German Co2 kits from Aquamas

It's a full kit for not a lot of dosh
It comes with a Solenoid to stop the Co2 at night, and a external reactor ( which means less visible gear in your tank ), and a huge 2kg bottle which should last a long time but may not be refillable depending on your local air supply guys.

Some of us have also had teething problems, but apart from me, nothing serious.

You din't tell us if you have an external filter ?
One of these would be needed if you went the reactor route.

A Nutrafin system can be had on ebay, such as
here

but remember, there is no fine control and typically the ingredients supplied are a bit duff, so if you get this use the pinned receipe- it works a treat

The other thing you could do, and maybe I should have considered this, is to buy a system for disposable bottles, iron out any teething problems and later buy an adaptor for refillable cannisters.

HTH
Peter

 

[coldmachineUK]

Thanks for the replies, really appreciate the tips.
I've taken a gander at the non-co2 post by Tom/Diana, and it seems like in the long-term it's an easier option though requires a little more patience since things grow slower. I see ferts are still dosed, just in far lower amounts and less regularly. So, that sounds easy enough as well.

On my tank specifically though: I do experience algae (nothing serious, just a weekly clean required), despite the fact the tank has less than 2w/g lighting. This is because the position is in a room where it receives a fair whack of daylight (can't reposition, other tanks are in all the other spaces!). Can ambient light be counted towards the total light level of the tank (i.e. towards the 2w/g)? Or, is it merely a case of 'algae will benefit from that but plants won't'?

I only recently planted up the tank heavily (I decided I would experiment), and am already noticing brown patches on the leaves of various species (vallis, which should be easy enough since my water is slightly on the hard side, and most species of vallis prefer harder water and the minerals it contains; but also my echinodorus latifolious in particular). I have read this is a symptom of a deficiency in a limiting factor (e.g. KNO3), is that right?
This is all leading to this question: if I opt for a non-co2 setup, keeping my light levels as they are in association with ambient light, can my problems be solved with fert dosing alone?

On the issue of water changes also: the non-co2 route seems to be advocating stopping water changes...I know the plants will absorb NO3 which will build up from the filtration process (btw, Peter, I run a Tetratec EX700 canister on the tank in question). But, what about adding key minerals back to the tank through the water change process which I've also read fish and plants both benefit from? And detritus build up would still be an issue...
Do you advocate continuing water changes in a non-co2 setup?

Maybe I'm getting myself confused!!!

 

[2pods]

When I was using Excel as a carbon source, and when I've been using Co2 or not been using anything I still change 25% weekly.
I think it depends if you are using EI or not.
I'm not, but there are much wiser heads than me, one should be along soon

Peter

 

[George Farmer]

Hours of direct sunlight may increase algae issues but ambient sunlight should be fine.

Planting heavily is your best defence against algae, and keeps up water quailty via NH3/4, NO2 and NO3 removal.

I would give the non-CO2 route a go with minimal water changes. See how you go. I will be trying this method out for myself soon.

Replenishing "key minerals" etc. isn't too much of an issue, as slower plant growth presents less demands on the water.

 

[lljdma06]

I would give the non-CO2 route a go with minimal water changes. See how you go. I will be trying this method out for myself soon.

Welcome to the dark side, George...

I second George's recommendation. Be careful, however, this method takes stocking into consideration and advocates a very light fish load, less than the 1" per gallon rule. If you are fond of fish, as I am, you may have to take that into consideration when you consider your maintenance regimen.

Good luck to you. Can't wait to see pictures. All my tanks are so small, it's nice to see larger systems and dream.

llj