550L+ What To Do?

[mattyvx]

Hello all,

I've had a 150L tank for a while now and recently traded all my fish in appart from a golden pleco and clown loach for two small oscars.

Appreciating these oscars will grow I'm getting a 550L+ tank delivered tomorrow! Should make a nice new home for them.

Tank size:
4ft length x 2ft depth x 30" High
122cm x 61cm x 76cm (new money)

Filtration
I think it's an EHEIM 2217 (1000L per/hr) fitted with custom foot long spray bar

I'm looking to stock the tank with Oscars, clown loach, pleco and probably some Sevs. Also wanting to plant Java moss,Java Fern,Anubias.

Question 1: Sand/Substrate
I really want sand as my base, I've read a few articles and it seems pool filter sand would be my best option for budget. What do you guys think? Am I asking for trouble with the Pleco / Oscars disturbing sand into the filter system? Will I be able to grow the plants in this? Should I mix in some crushed coral?

Question 2: Filtration
Is that filter enough? I obviously want clean water (mainly for the O's to grow!) but concerned about the size of tank and not having enough water movement.

Question 3: Decor
Thinking large bogwood and I also have a few peices of large slate (not sure if i'm going to use that though)

New to keeping cichlids so any feedback or advice is appreciated! Will post some pics when I get it running.

p.s. Inspiration is something like this tank
http/www.cichlids.com/uploads/tx_usercichlids/user_pics/9406/img_26_bfda152ae4.jpg

 

[always4lora]

I'd add an additional filter as 1000lph wont be enough. I run an fx5 and eheim 2078e on a 400l tank and it can still get a little dirty.

Clown loach will be fine when smaller but will need a bigger tank when bigger.

Oscar's are good in a tank this size but if you're keeping just 2 you may have some problems later on. If you want 2 full grown ones eventually i'd get a small group and let them pair off. 2 full grown oscars in your tank would leave it pretty well stocked, leaving a little room to get something like a catfish of somesort for the bottom area of the tank.

 

[mattlee]

a 4 ft tank is not big enough for 2 oscars and probably too small for a single oscar to be honest.....

oscars can reach over 12 inches and to cram a 1ft fish into a 4ft tank isnt fair on it. it doesnt sound much but i would say for an adult oscar a 5ft would be the minimum. my oscar Keith is 12-13 inches and currently in a 6.5ft tank and is soon to be moved into a 5ft and im doubting if he will have enough room especially with decor getting in the way!

the other thing is having 2 oscars is that its a risk with them getting on. its better to have them both from young and grow up together but its no guarentee that they will live in peace and again a 4ft isnt big enough for them both to have their own space.

also clown loach will slowly get to anything up to 12 inches and a 4ft tank is no home for then either im affraid....

to answer your questions -
1 - i have sand in with my oscar with no issues. yes it does get kicked about but nothing too bad and the floss etc should prevent it getting into the powerhead.

2 - oscars are quite messy fish and i would advise a couple of cats to clean up the dropped food. they also give a big bio load on filters so the more filtration the better but in a 4ft tank high filtration will blow the fish all over the tank. a 2217 in my eyes wouldnt be big enough for the suggested stocking.

3 - decor for these fish in this size tank i would say keep to a minimum as they will need all the room available to move when they start to get bigger.

im sorry to say this but the tank is a high volume due to its height not its length, the width is fine but fish need room to swim noy go up and down. extra height is a bonus for most fish dont get me wrong but it can give misleading effects on tank volume and stocking. in a tank of 4ft i would stock nothing over 6-8 inches as there just isnt the room. something like firemouths or a pair of severums, aequedens metae, discus fish of this size should be ok but again they all need space and cichlids being cichlids there is no guarentee that they will get on.

i would highly suggest you change the stocking from an oscar let alone 2 to something more suitable

 

[mattyvx]

Thanks for both your answers!

What type of sand do you have in the tank?

I'll get another filter hooked up, i've got an internal fluval U4 in my current tank but i think i'll sell tank setup and buy another external with the money. I'm also going to look at hooking the tank upto mains water through a filter system to help with water changes.

As an estimate how long do you think it will be before the oscars outgrow the tank? They are about 2-3" now, I think i'll keep hold of them for 6months or so to see them grow then sadly trade one in.

I can't go any bigger than 4ft wide so went for the extra volume in height so I could keep some bigger fish.

Any experience with plants in sand? and plants with Oscars?

 

[hamfist]

Go for at least an FX5 to run with that Eheim. I run a 2217 and an FX5 on my 5x2x2 and it certainly is not overkill. SOunds like you're going to be stocking to quite high levels also. Don't mess about, get the best ... FX5.

Can't help with plants, but will agree with Matt's point earlier that swimming room should be kept to a maximum with big fish in this size tank.

 

[mattlee]

with regards to plants i would stick to plastic. oscars will pull real plants apart and even some plastic ones.....

if you do go for real plants then they should be fine in sand, ive never had any issues with growing plants in sand. a cheap type of sand to buy is play sand, argos sell it for something like £2.99 for a 15kg bag.

if taken care of and fed right an oscar can grow about an inch a month so if yours are 3 inches now in about 4 months a pair of oscars could be too much in a 4ft tank. cichlids can also be very funny fish in the way that they will get along fine and then all of a sudden flip and attack each other and at about 7 inches they are well capable of doing some damage to other fish. on the other hand they may be happy together throughout their lives but extra space would be required to give them their own space in the tank just to escape and have some time alone instead of being on top of each other constantly...

 

[always4lora]

with regards to plants i would stick to plastic. oscars will pull real plants apart and even some plastic ones.....

if you do go for real plants then they should be fine in sand, ive never had any issues with growing plants in sand. a cheap type of sand to buy is play sand, argos sell it for something like £2.99 for a 15kg bag.

if taken care of and fed right an oscar can grow about an inch a month so if yours are 3 inches now in about 4 months a pair of oscars could be too much in a 4ft tank. cichlids can also be very funny fish in the way that they will get along fine and then all of a sudden flip and attack each other and at about 7 inches they are well capable of doing some damage to other fish. on the other hand they may be happy together throughout their lives but extra space would be required to give them their own space in the tank just to escape and have some time alone instead of being on top of each other constantly...

Mine's about 8 inch after 2 years! god know#s whats up with it its always been in a big must be the runt of the litter oh well i love it

 

[GShorty1981]

2 Oscars will be fine in a tank that size, just think, tons on people cram them into 55g tanks, so you are on the right track.

Personally I would go for a pair of Green Terrors instead tho.

 

[mattlee]

2 Oscars will be fine in a tank that size, just think, tons on people cram them into 55g tanks, so you are on the right track.

Personally I would go for a pair of Green Terrors instead tho.

are you serious

two adult 12 inch+ fish in 4ft of tank. come on......

would you put a 6 inch fish in a 2ft tank.......? because thats the same in dimensions of tank to fish

the tank has a high volume due to its height and fish dont need height except tall fish like angels for example.

 

[GShorty1981]

Just my opinion mate.

and yes i would put 2 6" fish in a 2x2x2

 

[mattlee]

Just my opinion mate.

and yes i would put 2 6" fish in a 2x2x2

but im comparison the tank would be 2x1x1 for the 6 inch fish.

we are all entitled to our opinion but putting fish in tanks too small happens too often mainly by people getting crap advice from lfs.

 

[GShorty1981]

I still think they will be fine in a 4x2x2, they dont just swim at one level, if yours does its got a swim bladder problem lol.

A 4x2x2 would be the minimum tho, and i personally wouldn't do it because i don't like Oscars and think it would be a waist of a tank that you could have a nice community with Geos and a Sev etc.

 

[mattlee]

I still think they will be fine in a 4x2x2, they dont just swim at one level, if yours does its got a swim bladder problem lol.

A 4x2x2 would be the minimum tho, and i personally wouldn't do it because i don't like Oscars and think it would be a waist of a tank that you could have a nice community with Geos and a Sev etc.

no mine is quite healthy and uses all of the tank and the extra height of the op's tank will be appreciated but im not on about the height. putting 2 foot long fish in a 4ft tank is just asking for it and not fair on the fish. they need room to swim about you know.....

if you have ever kept large cichlids then you will know how they need room to keep out of the way from time to time and just get away from it all. the tank will be fine for 5-6 months max then either the fish or the tank needs an upgrade. if your lucky you will get 2 fish that get along which is more likely if they are grown up from juvis 1-2 inches but even at 3-4 inches they can be very aggressive to any fish but especially their own kind. this is why people keep big fish in big tanks.
the 2ft depth and 30 inches high is great but the 4ft width isnt a good size for fish of this nature and size. i added a large green terror recently in with my oscar in a 6.5x2x2 tank and the green terror lasted less than a week before it was battered and eventually died, this tank has 2.5ft on the op's and now i wont keep anything else with my oscar except the catfish and BGK that currently live with him. i am down grading to a 5x2x2 soon and a fish thats a foot long and 8 inches tall soon makes a big tank look small believe me.

 

[mattyvx]

I still think they will be fine in a 4x2x2, they dont just swim at one level, if yours does its got a swim bladder problem lol.

A 4x2x2 would be the minimum tho, and i personally wouldn't do it because i don't like Oscars and think it would be a waist of a tank that you could have a nice community with Geos and a Sev etc.

I got the tank setup today, made a custom stand for it because the one that came with was too big and cluncky. I've taken loads of pics so will probably post a walkthrough of how I built it when it's setup.

I do like geos and sevs, I already have the two little oscars (already fighting the smaller one is much more agressive) but hoping they'll calm down abit in the new tank. I want to keep them and watch them grow, then maybe re-stock in a few months time!

Regarding the sand, what do you guys actually use? Nearly bought playsand from Argos today but everywhere I read tells me it's a nightmare and to use pool filter sand.

 

[MBOU]

Just a few of my thoughts... im too stupidly exhausted to make too much sense tonight!! LOL

*big cichlids need length of tank to swim up and down, i get where you went with the additional height and width tho! I had a similar 4ft tank and i had 2 25cm clown loach in it, thats when i realised how small the tank really was!! But tbh, those clowns were old.. they were still growing, and would have been fine in that tank as they were my main fish... but not ideal..

*You have a while with your oscars at only 2-3"

*def get another filter as soon as you can (not an emergency...few weeks or a couple of months probably wont kill the fish!! just dont go mad feeding!)

*Avoid the FX5, there are far better filters out there. As someone who works in the retail, i dont get why people think so highly of these filters, i have had a 100% return rate on them, some even being returned several times!

I think of them like my car.. mr Ford Fiesta is worth £500 but in the last 18 months i have spent more han £1500 fixing it every time something little went wrong... next is my lamder sensor.... Great little car, cheap to buy and run (or as cheap as you get...) but costs a fortune in spare parts and a lot of stress...

*Personally, i found running an eheim packed with sponges and biomedia alongside a tetratec 1200, an EFX Aquamanta 600(MAs own brand), another eheim (though possibly the biggest PITA when it comes to mainenance) or JBLs biggest CristalProfi Filter with the chemical filtration like the carbon and lots of BioNitratEx in!

*plants wont last 5 minutes... honestly they wont!! You can try but dont spend loads of money....

I found that lots of wood, rocks/slate and the reptile sucker plants worked great!! You can get big vines that suck the the glass and move in the water flow without looking fake... the ExoTerra ones are good


Good Luck... Dont be put off by negative answers tank is a step up so dont know what people are complaining about... you never said it was the end of the line for the oscars or that you assumed they wouldnt outgrow it....

Unfortunately due to past experience, a lot of people jump to conclusions about people, easily done, i think oscars have the roughest life of them all except goldfish!

Would love to see photos of your setup nce its going!!!