55 Gal Fancy tail

[j0!Nt]

Over the years, I had wished that I had done some type of fish journaling. Realistically for my own notes and reminders and things. I think a journal for your tank is an absolutely great idea and I'm going to take full advantage here

So, we lived in Calgary, AB for a little over 10 years ( 1997-2008 ) and during the mid way point of that time, I found myself working at a place called Aquatic Imports. Run by a man named Roger who's grandfather started this business in the early 1920's. I BELIEVE ( not 100% ) they are one of the only actual aquatic distributors in Western Canada. Rogers gets his fish right from the suppliers in Asia, Africa and South America.

I can't tell you what it's like walking into over 1100, 100 Gal tanks everyday. But I learned more than I ever thought I would. So.... my story :

I don't run chemicals in my tanks, ever. I try replicating the fish's natural environments when setting up tanks, but I don't like too much crowding so I leave big areas for swimming. I run 2 TOP FIN Power 75's - the flow is a little high but it's not over the top. And of course a heater... more on this.

This one is gonna throw ya's : I don't take water out during "water changes", never have. My tanks have always been crystal clear, fish have always lived long and healthy lives and I've never lost a fish under 4 years in any of my tanks. So...I don't worry about things like Chlorine and Chloramine. There is a step you can do to eliminate the C+C before it even goes in the tank. I will post a typical water change routine for me in a further post.

I set her all up and let it sit for about 2 weeks. Picked up some Pristella Tetras for cycling and they all lived, so they get to stay. About 2 weeks after that, we put some Panda Cory's in and that weekend we started stocking the fish.
Currently ( and no changes probably ever ) :
2 Ryukins ( one red, one red and white )
2 Black Moors
2 Calico Ryukins
1 Chocolate Oranda
1 Red Capped Oranda
3 Panda Cory's
1 Borneo Pleco ( loach )

Might say that's too stocked. Certain fish, yes, can and will out grow their tanks. There's quite a few myths with 'goldfish' that I will dispel in a later post as well, but they won't actually outgrow the tank with other tank mates. Always had a fancy tail tank in the living room, they never got to the point they were too big.

I will have some good pics in a day or two - a little busy the next few days but I MIGHT be able to squeeze some free time in here. My second post on this thread will be how and why I run the tank like I do and some fish myths that should be mentioned.

 

[j0!Nt]

OK so.. let's start with the tank and why I do what I do. And let me say, I've never run Discus fish and I know they need extra extra care so I am unaware if these methods would be advisable for Discus. This method though, has been done on Angels, a few gourami tanks, a couple fancy tail tanks, barbs and Rainbows.

As I said, zero chemicals in my tank, I don't believe in it. In the wild, these fish live in a non medicated world, no air stones, no pH balancer, no suppliments, just the water and w/e is on the bottom of the bed.

#1 There is no such thing as a cold water fish. I know you've all read it, but reality is, it doesn't exist. All aquarium fish live in water that is not cold. The Atlantic Ocean is cold water, no aquarium fish come from the Atlantic Ocean right, so... If you go out your front door and drink out of a puddle in say January, you're probably gonna get sick. If you go and drink from that same puddle in June or July, you'll be fine. Why is that? Well, warm water kills bacteria.

So, if you believe an aquarium can run cold, you are highly misinformed. ALL aquariums need a heater. Without a heater, even if you have good filtration, you're just cycling stagnant water. I don't care how it's argued, warm water kills bacteria.

#2 Your bed. You see the gravel that is offered in pet stores. This is the #1 thing I mention to new fish people. DO NOT run that gravel stuff in your tank. Playground sand is the way to go.

Gravel is basically shag carpet for an aquarium. The uneaten food, undissolved poop gets trapped down in between the rocks and just breeds bad bacteria and nitrates. You can't take out enough water in a water change to get it all without draining the tank. Sand compacts. Sand, because it compacts, 100% prevents and protects against anything getting below the surface. Uneaten food and poop is either sucked into the filter, or can easily and harmlessly dissolve because it's out in the open with the moving water.

Sand does not hurt the fish. You can watch them dispel the sand through their gills when they eat. I've seen people argue this, then show them my fish eating.

#3 Flow rate. To determine flow rate than mimics the wild you need in the area of 10 - 12 Gal /hr. Now, you say I bought a filter that says it does 300 Gal /hr. Yes, on 1 Gal it will. You need to divide your tank by the filter output. So, 55gal tank into 300 is only around 5.5, and that's not good enough.
Flow rate is major importance for helping keep the tank clean. A good flow, with a heater = you're basically cleaning the tank as it runs.

The warm water kills the bacteria and a good flow rate ensures that bacteria is getting taken care of all through the tank. Set your filters up so one pulls from lower than the other. If you set up so they are pulling from the same height, you can actually have the middle of your tank not get cycled. Set it up so the flow in the tank spirals, this guarantees good bacteria kill.

#4 Taking water out of the tank. I don't do it. Yea, crazy, maybe. Here's the thing. When you get a new fish, you don't just dump him in your tank ; you climitize them to your tank first. This is basically what a 'no water out water change' is supposed to replicate.
Taking water out and putting new in is stressful. You are changing the entire dynamic in the chemistry of your tank. You CAN have too many GOOD nitrates. If you take out 40-50% of your water, you run the risk of off setting the balance your fish's chemistry + the chemistry of the water. You can introduce too many nitrates and nitrites and that is bad. Fish get all discombobulated and confused, may not recover. If you see your fish just hanging out at the bottom after a water change, you should know something is up

As your tank runs, and you have a heater and good flow, this takes care of 'excess' water. Your tank will naturally lower as the 'work' is going on. Warm moving water creates energy and this energy has to be balanced by evaporation. You should lose almost 2 inches from the top a week if you run your tanks like I do. This is the water out that you need. All you need to do is restock the water.

Sooooo.... chlorine and chloramine. It's put in our water so the water doesn't destroy the taps and grow bacteria in the lines. It's completely safe for us, not so for fish. Aeration destroys chlorine and chloramine. This is the MAIN reason you run air in your tank. Not for the fish. Fish get oxygen as the water passes their gills, and MOST fish will go to the surface if they NEED oxygen. You don't run air in the tank for the fish - that's another myth.

As you're filling your water bucket, swish the water around AS the bucket fills. You've all heard warm water from the tap 'hiss' after filling a glass or a bucket, that's the sound of chlorine and chloramine dissipating. As you fill the bucket, and swish it around, you will dissipate the C+C before it even goes in your tank, and no chemicals will be required

These methods have worked well for me every time, every tank. Again, I've never lost a fish due to water quality or water chemical imbalance.

Now, I had a couple tanks going before I got hooked up at Aquatic Imports. I literally saw the difference in my water AND the fish's behaviour after going to a no chemical tank. These guys have been doing this for 3 generations and I never, once, had a complaint by ANY store we supplied. I followed this method I've listed here from Roger and his father ; it has not failed me.

I understand everyone is different and hey, if you're fish are healthy, happy and your water is good, who cares how you do it right Just sharing my experience(s) and knowledge

 

[thrujenseyes]

That's an interesting read for sure. Glad this method has worked for you and your fish.
Love to see pics of your tanks!

 

[j0!Nt]

Side note I forgot about:

Pertaining to the playground sand. I've tried a few different kinds, they are all fine if they are dark. We tried a 'white' playground sand once. Two months later and still finding / dealing with sand dust / residue in the filter equipment.
We ended up putting the regular stuff on top - just an inch. It did the trick. I don't know what the difference is, but the we found the white stuff was very dusty. I was tearing the filters apart every two days. A definite learning lesson I always try to pass along.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Welcome to the forum j0!Nt.

We are always happy to read about the methods other use.

I did want to discuss this point with you a bit further, because it is factually inaccurate and is based on antiquated understanding of the science of fish keeping.

#1 There is no such thing as a cold water fish. I know you've all read it, but reality is, it doesn't exist. All aquarium fish live in water that is not cold. The Atlantic Ocean is cold water, no aquarium fish come from the Atlantic Ocean right, so... If you go out your front door and drink out of a puddle in say January, you're probably gonna get sick. If you go and drink from that same puddle in June or July, you'll be fine. Why is that? Well, warm water kills bacteria.

So, if you believe an aquarium can run cold, you are highly misinformed. ALL aquariums need a heater. Without a heater, even if you have good filtration, you're just cycling stagnant water. I don't care how it's argued, warm water kills bacteria.

I am going to have to disagree on this point at two different places.

1 - There are 'cold water' fish, or what would be better described as 'temperate water' fish, in contrast to 'tropical water' fish. These would be fish like goldfish, koi, white cloud mountain minnows, etc. These are fish that can and do live, survive and thrive in streams, lakes, and ponds during harsh winters. These fish can even survive the water they are living in freezing over, as long as the water is deep enough not to freeze solid to the bottom. These fish should not be kept in tanks in the home with heaters. They should be kept at 'room temperature', as these fish are adapted for lower temperatures. Higher temperatures increases the metabolism of these fish and can lead to shorter lifespans than they would have in more 'temperate' water.

2 - Warm water does not kill bacteria. This one is huge to the understanding of our tanks' ecosystem. IF warm water did kill bacteria, then keeping fish in a tank would be impossible... actually life on earth would be impossible, but that's for another discussion. The bacteria we NEED in our tanks to deal with ammonia and nitrite (both highly toxic poisons to our fish). These bacteria 'oxidize' the ammonia forming nitrite. A different group of bacteria 'oxidize' nitrite forming nitrate. The nitrate then needs to be removed from the tanks as it is ALSO poisonous to the fish, just in much higher concentrations. (We can discuss this a little later.)

The basics of the nitrogen cycle necessitates that certain bacteria are NOT killed by the temperature of the water in our tanks, but actually THRIVING in our tanks. And if a few types of bacteria can thrive in that environment, you can be sure that there are others as well.

Further, safe food handling instructions from the FDA confirms that bacteria can not only survive, but THRIVE, in temperatures in line with our fish tanks! The 'DANGER ZONE' for food is between 40 degrees and 140 degrees Fahrenheit! This is why refrigerators have temperature settings LOWER than 40 degrees Fahrenheit. And food service trays, like buffets, etc. are set to OVER 140 degrees Fahrenheit.

Some bacteria, including Clostridium botulinum (the bacteria responsible for the Botulinus toxin, the poison that leads to botulism!), can survive temperatures in excess of 212 degrees Fahrenheit - the temperature of boiling water at Standard Pressure.

So, warm water, even hot water, does not kill all bacteria!

On a related note: I wouldn't recommend drinking water out of a stagnant puddle in January OR June. Bacteria will be present in BOTH months, regardless of the temperature outside.

 

[cboatman]

Agreed with eaglesaquarium. Bacteria will divide the fastest in warm to hot water. The only way to safely kill bacteria is to either use iodine or boil water. When we use a heated in our tanks, it is for the comfort of our fish, not to kill bacteria.

Not doing water changes would lead to incredibly high nitrates. One might be able to get away from it in a well planted tank, but in an lightly planted or unplanted tank, they'd continue to build until lethal. Evaporation will only get rid of pure water, not dissolved organics or nitrates. Nitrate isn't toxic in small amounts, but in large amounts, it will be.

As for the part about chlorine, chlorine will evaporate out of the tank eventually but I think it takes about
12-24 hours to do so, even with stirring. Chloramine takes even longer to evaporate out.

Fish need surface movement to survive. Only a fraction of atmospheric oxygen dissolves into water on its own. Without aeration by an aquarium output or airstone, the fish would quickly suffocate because they'd use up all the oxygen. I The only fish that can live in stagnant, undisturbed water are fish with organs that allow them to draw oxygen from the air, such as a betta.

I'm glad your methods are working and in that case, keep it up. However, I'm worried that a few of your techniques won't pass on as well to other tanks. Just my 2¢.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[j0!Nt]

Hey hey funny was discussing this with the wife yesterday / today about stuff I believe I may have been mis informed on over the years.

I must say, there is so much more online these days compared to when we first started going with the tanks. Education on fish and fish care is much easier to find ; more people share their knowledge now I find but anyways..
.
I was doing things the regular / more correct way before I started working at Aquatics. Again, these guys had been doing this for 3 generations and it seemed to work great for them. I followed suit and maybe got lucky the whole way or what I don't really know.

Definitely learning that a fair chunk of what I was taught isn't really correct. I have quite different water here than in Calgary and maybe that's a factor as to why we never had issues or fish loss. I should say, I never said no running air stones or anything - should definitely do that.

What I was taught made science sense to me. But.... lately what I'm finding is making MORE science sense, and I've definitely seen a difference in the tanks.

Been doing a 25% change every 2 days and switched from carbon filter to lava rock. Major difference in just 2 weeks - especially in the fish's behaviour. They are definitely more active and free swimming now, where as before they just kinda lolly-gagged along

I am thankful for the plethora of knowledge that is now accessible, and I really look back and go : "Yea, that really doesn't make sense does it" lol. Never had issues, so I never questioned anything.

And I am glad that you guys made sure to pass along the correct information, it's great that folks are quick to assist.
Thank you

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Hey hey funny was discussing this with the wife yesterday / today about stuff I believe I may have been mis informed on over the years.
...
I was doing things the regular / more correct way before I started working at Aquatics. Again, these guys had been doing this for 3 generations and it seemed to work great for them. I followed suit and maybe got lucky the whole way or what I don't really know.
...
Thank you

I understand completely what you are saying here. I took up home canning not that long ago, and found out that the way my grandmother was canning was highly suspect. She would open water bath can high pH vegetables like green beans, etc. Reading the SCIENCE behind it years later almost made me sick! How no one in my family ever got botulism... I can't say, but we were definitely taking (unknown) risks.

A lot of times, people won't question their techniques if they seem to be successful with them - after all, if it ain't broke, why fix it? (They generally look at it as, "if it ain't broke, why break it?")

As a science teacher, I run into a lot of old wives' tales, or misunderstood scientific laws to be held to closely by many folks. And generally, those who hold them most tightly are those who have held them the longest!

I wonder how much that group ever looked into new techniques, new studies, etc.? What they were doing was working for them... or so it seemed, though likely it could have been better.

In a family run business, there was probably a lot of groupthink, confirmation bias, and just plain stubbornness involved. They likely weren't looking to bring in folks who were educated on the business elsewhere, but hiring a bunch of folks who were raised in their business.

Ultimately, we cannot close our minds to new ideas, but we need to test, evaluate and consider.

 

[j0!Nt]

Just a confirmation on the work place thing. I don't think I'd classify Aquatic Imports as a 'family' run. It was just the grand father, and the father. Now Roger and his sister Pam run the operation. Only 4 others + the delivery guy. The others also swore by Roger's methods and their tanks looked amazing as well.

I really think it's something with the water in Calgary. I barely over heard Pam talking to one of the staff one day about the water in Calgary how good it was straight from tap for aquariums and I got busy and didn't quite hear the whole thing.

I will say though, since we got the big tank up and running, for some reason I've been thinking about that little snippet I heard that day. And have noticed that the tank just didn't seem as crystal clear as I remembered ( I think? ). With the online knowledge base now, the day after I started this I was finding out all sorts of stuff that I should / shouldn't be doing.

Ultimately, I want what's best for my fish and my tanks. If that means 'my way' needs to change, then hey so be it. That's the beauty of learning

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Ultimately, I want what's best for my fish and my tanks. If that means 'my way' needs to change, then hey so be it. That's the beauty of learning

AMEN!