5 gallon nano-saltwater

[littlefishie]

Hey.. I'm new to saltwater tanks, as I've never had one before, but in the near future I may be getting a fairly cheap 15gallon freshwater tank to replace my 5 gallon. One of my friends at the LFS suggested setting up my 5 gallon as a nano-saltwater tank, and offered to help me. I know nanos aren't recommended for beginners, but as he's volunteered to help me set it up and guide me through the entire process [and the store is a 25 minute busride so help is not that far away], I thought it might not be so bad.
Currently I have my 5g tank that I'm looking to empty. I know that the filter in it is not suitable for saltwater [it's an Elite Stingray 5], so Eric [LFS guy] is giving me an old Aquaclear Mini of his. He's also given me a 50 watt Tronic heater. I planned to get some bagged sand and add a cup of the sand from one of the store tanks to it, to make it live. Then I was going to get 5 pounds of live rock as well, and probably some small corals. Which, knowing Eric, will be put in the bag with the rock and not written on the bag. I am not positive on what fish I want to add to this yet, but I know I'm probably limited to one.. I was thinking maybe just a clownfish?
So basically, here's what I'm planning. If there's anything wrong with this setup, PLEASE tell me!

5 gallon tank
5 lbs live rock with some coral
5 lbs sand [plus 1 cup live sand from store to save some money]
Aquaclear mini filter
50 watt Tronic heater
[Possibly] 1 clownfish.

If the clownfish isn't feasible, are there any other options with a tank this small? I'll get something else, it's just that they have baby percula clownfish at the store, and they're so cute..

Thanks!

 

[Navarre]

I think you are going to find this an uphill struggle with only 5 gallons. the stability issues alone would give me nightmares

As for the fish.. forget the clwons its just too small. I would house perhaps a single Neon Goby or Catalyuna Goby.

Thats about it really. By the time you have added live rock then you might only have 3 gallons of water, maybe even less

 

[Ed4567]

IMO I would find a second hand 15 gallon tank for about £15 and set that up instead. It would offer you much better stability and allow some more interesting stocking options without being much more expensive.
Ed

 

[chkltcow]

If you want to do a 5g, you're gonna want a big sump/canister filter to go on it to raise the overall water volume a bit. So far, mine has been fairly stable, with just the standard pH fluctuations that a new tank goes through. Ammonia and nitrite have disappeared, but when I first put the uncured LR in, it was HIGH! A 5 gal isn't entirely impossible, but it's gonna be a lot of work.

Here's mine on the day it was set up. Starting to look a it different now

 

[Great Lakes]

The absolute largest issue with a 5 gallon and corals is the temperature fluctuation you will experience with any lighting adequate enough to support corals.

GL

 

[littlefishie]

What if I just drop the corals?
..Secondhand tanks are pretty rare around here, and my mom is refusing to support a 15g saltwater when I told her how much the 5g would cost.. I'm only getting the 15g for freshwater cos it's going to be my tank at home, and my mom knows how to take care of freshwater.
I'm not going to be doing this until the summer probably so there's a lot of time to plan it and get everything.. it's just that the live rock alone will cost me a small fortune [1.5lbs of rock per gallon at $8.99/lb = $77.54 just for the 5 gallon. For the 15 it'd be $232.62. This is all including tax] and when I'm trying to do this on as much of a budget as possible because I still have 6 years of university to pay for, well.. the 5g is my only option.
If it's not really feasible, then it's going to be a dwarf puffer tank.
I was so hoping for saltwater though..
One of the guys that works at the LFS set up all of their saltwater tanks, including the 6g nano they have on display.. it's an Eclipse 6 with purple and yellow coloured slugs, some orange corals, and a percula.. He said it was possible for a percula to go into the 5g nano, but that I'd have to be really careful with water parameters and such. ..He's been doing saltwater for about 10 years now, so I thought he knew what he was talking about.
If I do just the 1lb per gallon of rock instead of 1.5, would that possibly leave enough room for the percula? ..the baby ones there were kind of my entire reason for wanting to turn this tank into a nano. I'm not totally against another fish, I just fell in love with the perculas. They're so damned cute..
Thanks for the replies though, I get the feeling I'm going to be getting a good education in nano-saltwater by the time I'm through.
And chkltcow, your tank looks like it's going to be so awesome when it's done.. I can't wait to see it!

 

[Navarre]

If you dont have corals then the tank will look very bare. remember that you can squeeze far more corals in to a tank then you ever will with fish.

As for your friend keeping the 6 gallon nano with purple/yellow nudibranches. Unless he as specialist foods for them expect the tank to be wiped out within 4 weeks Each species os nudibranch specialises in eat one 1 thing and 1 thing only, there is no exception to this rule and unless this species eats a readily available food then their time in captiviy is limited

Yes a clown can be kept in a 5 gallon nano but there is a large differene between surviving and thriving.

I would personally atempt a small goby or 2 at most. and then start to collect corals.. softies that can get by on low light levels and thus not endanger too much the heat problems that might occur.

You can get by with 1ls per gallon, this is what seems to be recomended lately anyway (i usually use kilos) remember though, reducing liverock capacity so you can fit a larger fish will creat problems. incraseing the fish size means more waste toxins. less liverock reduces filtration capabilites.

 

[littlefishie]

I'm pretty sure they've got special foods.. after all, they wouldn't order them in and sell them for $30 if they were going to die in a month. I'll have to ask Eric on Saturday, but they've been there for about 2 weeks now.. hmm.. They're purple and yellow ones, that's all I can remember.. do you know what they need to eat? The purple one has two.. eye stalks, sorta, but I've never seen eyeballs. And a little tuft at the back end that looks like an upside down mop. ..The yellow one is always in the rock so I'm not too sure about that one.

What about a 10g nano? ..My mom's a little iffy about me doing a 5g cos it's so small, but when I mentioned a ten she seemed to ease up. [I didn't tell her the cost different in live rock though ..though she may change her mind entirely when she finds out about that..] Could the percula do well in that? My mom doesn't really like gobies that much.. I showed some to her, and she's kinda set on clownfish.. my mom being the weird lady she is, I don't think she'll let me do the tank if it's not going to have a percula in it. And she refuses to do a large saltwater tank. I barely got away with the 15g fresh..

Grr.. this is depressing now.. I just did a quick calculation for the LR and LS and salt mix for a 10.. my mom is not gonna like this.
Okay, let's put it this way.. what is the cheapest way I can do a 10g nano if I already have the filter and heater, LR is $8.99/lb [at one pound per gallon], sand that's $14.84 and then Eric said he'd give me some live sand from the tank to get mine started, and a $35 percula clown?
..Prices with tax:
Live Rock -- $103.39
Sand-- $14.84
10 gallon tank -- $17.25 [Go Canadian prices being $6 more than a bare 10g at any other store!]
Percula clown -- $40.25
Corals -- unknown [they just got a new shipment yesterday and I can't go til Saturday so I'll find out then..]
Minus corals it's $175.73.. and I still need lighting. If I can get my dad to build a stand and hood, what kind of lighting should I put in this?

..or perhaps the easier question.. if this is going to cost me over $300, and be too much of a hassle, would it just be easier to turn my 5g into a dwarf puffer tank and forget the saltwater? ..I don't want to just give up on a nanoSW, but there's no way I'm going to be allowed to do it if it costs too much..

 

[fraservet]

It's really not a good idea to skimp on equipment when setting up a marine tank. You will really regret it later on. If you can't afford to do everything right, I would recommend either saving some more until you can afford it, or going for your dwarf puffer tank.

Having said that, one solution would be to set up a tank without live rock. Base rock is much cheaper. If you are not bothered about keeping corals (which I wouldn't recommend for your first setup anyway), you wouldn't need much in the way of specialised equipment.

A pair of clowns in a 15 gallon tank (bigger if possible), with base rock, a single fluorescent tube, heater, external cannister filter (or even an undergravel filter), and some sand would work fine and would work out pretty cheap.

I know some (most) people think live rock is the only way to set up marine tanks, but I have not had any problems in my fish only tanks without it.

 

[chkltcow]

It's really not a good idea to skimp on equipment when setting up a marine tank. You will really regret it later on. If you can't afford to do everything right, I would recommend either saving some more until you can afford it, or going for your dwarf puffer tank.

Having said that, one solution would be to set up a tank without live rock. Base rock is much cheaper. If you are not bothered about keeping corals (which I wouldn't recommend for your first setup anyway), you wouldn't need much in the way of specialised equipment.

A pair of clowns in a 15 gallon tank (bigger if possible), with base rock, a single fluorescent tube, heater, external cannister filter (or even an undergravel filter), and some sand would work fine and would work out pretty cheap.

I know some (most) people think live rock is the only way to set up marine tanks, but I have not had any problems in my fish only tanks without it.

I'm of the exact opposite belief. If you're setting up a tank, don't skimp on the live rock. Live rock is your primary filtration method... it IS necessary. You don't need all the fancy skimmers, sumps, overflow boxes, refugiums, calcium reactors, etc..... the only things you TRULY need for a marine aquarium is live rock, light, and water movement. Then, you let hermit crabs and snails take care of keeping everything cleaned.

 

[Ed4567]

How about this as the minimum:
-tank $17
-sand $0 to $14- ask around on forums for your area to see if anyone has any they are taking out of their tank you could have.
-Live rock $50- If you want to save money go half live rock half base rock- it will all be colinised eventually
-Base rock $15
-Clown- $40
-Corals- $? - look for frags and people upgrading to hard corals- you can get beginner corals v. cheaply.
-Lighting $?- second hand again
Filter/ heater- you already have.

Have you figured in running costs?
What about RO water?

 

[littlefishie]

RO water, well.. my LFS runs RO through everything and Eric volunteered to do my salt mixes for me and drive supplies up to campus if I need it. Running costs.. precisely what do you mean? Like constantly buying water conditioner, salt mix, etc? Cos I have tons of conditioner for my other tanks, and it's Aqua Plus which apparently can be used in SW as well.. salt mix.. well.. Eric = employee discount. Or if I get a job there, I get the employee discount.

Base rock sounds like a good idea.. I'll have to see if they carry that. Cheaper, and as you said, it all gets colonised eventually.


Dammit, scrap all this.. I just talked to my mom, and she's discussed it with my dad. He said no.. he's already tolerating the 15g and offering to make a stand and hood for it, he flat out refused the nano saltwater. "It'll cost too much, you have $90 000 worth of school ahead of you."

Thanks for all the help though, I've definitely learned more than I thought if I can ever get away with a nano. Guess it's a dwarf puffer tank.

 

[Navarre]

Shame. I really think that if your father saw how interested you really were in this then he would also see how rewarding the marine side can become. nevermind, if you ever get the opportunity ot go marine then you know that we are here to help should you need it

 

[fraservet]

Live rock is your primary filtration method... it IS necessary. You don't need all the fancy skimmers, sumps, overflow boxes, refugiums, calcium reactors, etc.....

To clarify what I said

When I said don't skimp on equipment, I didn't mean buy all the fancy gadgets. I meant it's better to make a list of everything you need (I was including live rock as "equipment" if that's the way you want to go) and find out how much it will cost, rather than having such a restricted budget and cutting corners - for example buying equipment that is not powerful enough or of poor quality.

As for saying live rock is necessary - I really have to disagree.
For a reef tank or for fish that feed from liverock then yes I would say it is necessary - or at least very difficult to do without, but with a fish only tank I believe other methods can be equally valid so long as the tank is maintained properly.
Liverock is certainly a very good method - I would probably have it in my tanks if the price here was more reasonable - but NOT the only option.

 

[littlefishie]

Shame. I really think that if your father saw how interested you really were in this then he would also see how rewarding the marine side can become. nevermind, if you ever get the opportunity ot go marine then you know that we are here to help should you need it

I tried to show him.. I brought him and my mom to the fish store before dinner last night to show him all of the fish there and explain what I knew about them and how fun it would be to have a marine tank..
All he could mutter about was building a stand for the 15g I might be getting in the new year. I figure, if he's complaining about a simple stand for a 15g, what would he start in with if I mentioned the reef tank would need one too?
Thanks for the help though. I'm thinking that when I move into my own place for school next year [not residence as they have limits on tanks and such, but a real apartment or house] I may consider setting up maybe a 15g saltwater. It depends on what job I end up getting.

But thanks, really.. I'd've had no idea what to do without some help!