30 second fish memory

[isu_guy]

They have to have more than 30 seconds of memory. Something that didnt may not even live that long, they would forget to breath, especially bettas.

Many functions do not take a cognitive capacity. Bacteria do not remember to eat, fish do not remember to breathe, we do not remember to breathe, it just happens. We can control our breathing, but none of us wake up every few seconds in the middle of the night so we can breathe.

Now as for whether fish can tell the difference between people, I'd say I wouldn't be astonished if I were told it was proven to be true, but I'm willing to believe that its more us thinking that our pet is really smart and loves us etc etc and less the fish acting any different. It'd be interesting to have someone unbiased do a scientific study to see if fish respond differently to different people.

 

[dwarfgourami]

It should be possible to devise a scientifically valid experiment to test the memory span in different types of fish.
First, you need to eliminate any behaviour that could be instinctive, e.g. all fish are instinctively geared to become excited at the approach (sight, smell) of food, and to avoid certain predators. To know if they really remember, you would need to teach them to associate a non-food sign with the imminent serving of (as yet invisible) food, alternatetively with an undesirable experience which they are not instinctively geared to avoid.
You would also have to specify in advance what counts as a valid alteration of behaviour on their part.
For instance, if you have a fish which gets moderately excited about food, but exhibits some special behaviour when served bloodworms (does a little dance, jumps out of the tank). You would then serve bloodworms at regular intervals always showing a red jumper at the same time. If you turned up at the same time with a red jumper but no bloodworms and the fish still did the bloodworm behaviour, then you would have proved your case.
The problem is being sure what counts as specific behaviour.

 

[Fishist]

It should be possible to devise a scientifically valid experiment to test the memory span in different types of fish.
First, you need to eliminate any behaviour that could be instinctive, e.g. all fish are instinctively geared to become excited at the approach (sight, smell) of food, and to avoid certain predators. To know if they really remember, you would need to teach them to associate a non-food sign with the imminent serving of (as yet invisible) food, alternatetively with an undesirable experience which they are not instinctively geared to avoid.
You would also have to specify in advance what counts as a valid alteration of behaviour on their part.
For instance, if you have a fish which gets moderately excited about food, but exhibits some special behaviour when served bloodworms (does a little dance, jumps out of the tank). You would then serve bloodworms at regular intervals always showing a red jumper at the same time. If you turned up at the same time with a red jumper but no bloodworms and the fish still did the bloodworm behaviour, then you would have proved your case.
The problem is being sure what counts as specific behaviour.

Agreed.

I don't know what memory span a fish has and personally wouldn't rely purely on instinctive behaviour to prove otherwise. Does a newborn kitten suckle again and again from memory?

So, who's going to volunteer to do the science project then?

 

[Undawada]

Memory is a complex thing. For starters, there are two basic types of memory: long term and short term.

When you experience something new, it is stored in your short term memory. Through repetition and constantly accessing that memory, it gets deemed important and moves into long term memory. If something doesn't get moved into long term memory, it gets forgotten.

I think when people quote the "30 second" memory, they are referring to short term memory, which may be true, I'm not a fish neurologist. It seems to me, though, that fish have much more than a 30 second memory in their long term memory

 

[fishfight]

Well, I know my fish have great memory! My pleco beat me three games to two in a chess tournament. He's a crafty one he is. Just a little hard for him to reach the chess pieces...and move them, you know, fins and all.

 

[Fishist]

Well, I know my fish have great memory! My pleco beat me three games to two in a chess tournament. He's a crafty one he is. Just a little hard for him to reach the chess pieces...and move them, you know, fins and all.

Now you should try Trivial Pursuit with ya pleco to test his long term memory!

 

[wrs]

They have to have more than 30 seconds of memory. Something that didnt may not even live that long, they would forget to breath, especially bettas.

Many functions do not take a cognitive capacity. Bacteria do not remember to eat, fish do not remember to breathe, we do not remember to breathe, it just happens. We can control our breathing, but none of us wake up every few seconds in the middle of the night so we can breathe.

have you ever herd that people with memory loss forget to breathe etc? It is a very valid point. Just because you are asleep doesnt measn you for get things.

 

[Torrean]

not sure how this went but someone tested a goldfish's memory by putting a button in the tank. When the fish pushed the button food came out. The fish would push the button all day long and eat as much as they wanted. Once it was established that the fish new to push the button to get food they set it on a timer. So only during certain parts of the day would pushing the button produce food. Well after a whil the fish learned when to push the button and they would all gather around it just before it was feeding time. Then they would push the button and get there food. What do you think of that

 

[Undawada]

I think you could sell pre-trained goldfish to lazy fishkeepers, now if only you could train them to change their water

 

[Torrean]

 

[wrs]

not sure how this went but someone tested a goldfish's memory by putting a button in the tank. When the fish pushed the button food came out. The fish would push the button all day long and eat as much as they wanted. Once it was established that the fish new to push the button to get food they set it on a timer. So only during certain parts of the day would pushing the button produce food. Well after a whil the fish learned when to push the button and they would all gather around it just before it was feeding time. Then they would push the button and get there food. What do you think of that

I herd about a simplar thing, but with betta fish.

 

[Torrean]

I posted about a test involving a button on a timer a while back. Well I found a website on accident that talks about it. It's a vegetarian website and I'm a meat eater but oh well It still proves that fish have memories.

http/www.fishinghurts.com/feat/FishLives/index.html?c=143

 

[SirMinion]

To know if they really remember, you would need to teach them to associate a non-food sign with the imminent serving of (as yet invisible) food,

Martha gets excited when see sees me take my cordless computer keyboard off my lap because she knows that it means I'm about to stand up, and that often means prawns!

 

[colegamby]

i dont have any outright intelligent fish but they all know that when the lid opens there is a good chance of food

 

[moneywastedonfish]

there are some marine fish with individual face markings that we can't see, these patterns are in the uv spectrum. The fish that have these patterns are the shoaling or schooling species.
Currently three 'personalites' of fish are recognised within schooling fish. 1. Dominant
2. Curious
3. Submissisive

They all have roles in the school from predator detection to finding food to defending the school, The fact that fish have personalities demonstrates a higher level of intelligence then most people give them credit for.
THey are able to specialise knowing that some of their con specifics are better able to perfom certain functions.

Why bother with individuality if you can't remember who is who?

Also in your own fish tank have a look at a pair of fish that have formed from a group, they remember each other.

Another experiment was done were a group of fry was split into two groups and some test subjects. One of the groups had the test subjects with them for feeding whilst the other group was fed independently of the test subjects. But the second group, now with the test subjects was exposed to a simulated predator.
The experiment involved a tank with three sections seperated by glass. A group at each end and the tests in the middle section.
When food was added to the trank the tests swam right up beside the group that they had previously eaten with ignoring the other group. This is because the test fish have picked up visual clues about feeding from the group. But when a predator simulation was done the test fish repetitively moved to the other group because they had picked up on the predator cues that they had previously learned.