3 death fish, 1 ill, and 2 aparently OK??

[shuhu]

Hi

I'm new to this whole thing (But I've read a lot) the thing is that this morning I woke up to see 2 RedEye Tetras and 1 Pleco death, another Pleco is ill (sweams funny and slow) and I have other 2 Molly Platies, and I'm not sure but I think that they are starting to show some white spots at their tails, which also look a little blurry like if there was something surrounding them.

What should I do??? I mean yesterday they ALL looked perfectly fine, you know, eating and swimming vigorously and now I dont really think that the remaining Pleco will survive

I got the Mollys and the Tetras 10 days ago and the Plecos 5 days ago (they are all on a 10 Gallon tank with an undergravel filter, a litle peace of driftwood and one stone), I can get them replaced at the store with almost no money difference but I really want to know what I did wrong so that I won't screw up again.... any ideas on what it might be the problem

Also after removing the 3 death fish I did a 20% water change treated with anti-chlorine but I'm not sure if that was the right thing to do, I also dropped a couple of aquarium salt pieces since I read somewere that its good to avoid infections and parasites and my brother uses is to helps his turtles when they get fungus

Btw I'm keeping my mom's tank which a friend got her with all of his fishes and all and they are doing great so I don't know what did I do with my own tank, at least they all ( 8 ) are OK.


PS: sorry for the long post )

 

[newland]

What are you water params?
Have you tested the water?

Is your tank cycled? if so how long?

 

[shuhu]

Well, I began cyclin 10 days ago, I also used Bacteria (from the store) so that it would be faster and I placed the Tetras and the Mollies like 12 hours after that and I put the Plecos in the tank 5 days ago, I treated the water with Anti-chlorine and Methylene Blue, but I do not know the PH or any other of that since I still havent gotten a test Kit (I'm gonna get one first time tomorrow ) also the temperature is usually between 25-27 degrees and I don't have a heater nor a lamp yet

btw ... My other Pleco died a couple mins ago

I'm not sure but after reading a bit I think (not completely sure) that my Mollies (the ones still alive) have some sort of fungus and probably the Ich as well, so I inmediately put some drops of Malachite green (my bro has some for his turtles). Although I didn't saw any signs of this on the ones that died.

I know I should have waited more for the whole cycling thing but I didn't know anything about this exactly 10 days ago.

Also, since I'm going to replace the ones that died, by tomorrow, what should I do before palcing them inside the tank? considering that I have 2 ill fishes now. I know I should wait before getting other fish but is the store's policy to replace the animals the same day that I bring the "corps" of the ones I'm replacing or they can't give me another one.

Update: I just noticed something, I have a piece of wood that has a fuzzy white thing below it, which looks like what the mollies have on their tails, I removed it inmediately, would that have caused the other ones to die

 

[newland]

First thing is don't add any more fish till you have things under control.

Methylene Blue can kill all bacteria good or bad and is nor a recommended treatment. I would really recommend testing your water params as it most lickly that You have a nitrite spike.

You added bacteria to breakdown the waste into Nitrites. It sounds like you have a nitrite spike and are nearthe final stages of cycling.

Keep doing water changes abount 25-30% a day.

You will find most diease's are caused by bad water conditions or other infected fish.

Also most fish shops offer this but they will also rerquire a water sample to test if your water params are bad ie too much Nitrite/Amonia.

After re-reading your new post i would reccomend doing a large water change of amount 40% NOW and then a 20 -25% each day there after.

Also don't add any treatments in yet. wait till you can test your water

 

[shuhu]

thanks for your advise, I did a water change today of about 40% with treated water a bit warmer than what they already have it, they have been apparently fine for the past 12 hours, so I hope they get better

Also the guys at the store will let me get the fish replacements in a week or until everything goes back to normal. At least I will get a 100% raplecement for the 2 Plecos and a 50% on the RedEye Tetras (thank God they are cheaper). Although a guy from the other store were I get the food and stuff told me that they might not make it, and that if that happends I should let the water intact for a week or 2 and then add new fish.

I will post if anything changes (for good or bad), or if anyone else has more advise, please let me know... i'll keep on learning about my fish in the meantime )

 

[sylvia]

Don't replace the fish. You have no space for them as it is.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Ok, i'll start from the beginning;

A 10gal tank is far too small for the majority of plecs and due to the ones that could posibly fit in a 10gal being very expensive(like at least £10's) and rare too so i will take it that your plecs were far too small for a 10gal.
Also, despite that salt can be used as a med to treat various fish it can be very damaging to others, namely catfish and other "scaleless" fish- plecs for one are intolerant of salt.
Also many plecs need their diet substituted with algae wafers/tablets and because many are nocturnal they also need somwhere to sleep during the day where it is not under constant light.
I would avoid getting anymore plecs unless you are planning to get a much bigger tank.

Tetras need to be in shoals, for the majority of these shoals need to be at least 6 to 8 strong although i would not get anymore fish in your situation.
When you say you have molly platys these are in fact 2 separate types of fish- were you indicating that you have 2 of each of just one of each making a total of 2?

Most fish keepers use a rule called the "one inch of fish per gallon rule" but in many cases this is only loosely applied in many cases as there is alot more to just fitting fish in, but it will give you and idea in the future of whats available for your tank size- this rule should be used taking the fish's max adult size as it grows into consideration and not just what it is at present.
Mollys for example grow to 3inchs but they need more space in comparrison to guppys for example, so while you can fit 5 guppys max in a 10gal you can only fit 2 mollys.
Researching a fish before you get it is the key, factors you will need to take into mind are;

a. How big does it grow to?
b. What other fish is it compatable with i.e get along with?
c. Is it a hardy fish(i.e can survive in water conditions that aern't nesarsarily top notch i.e mollys are hardy fish while neon tetras are very delicate)
d. Is a community or solitary fish? Is it nippy or peaceful? Is a predeter or shoaling fish? Does it get along with the same or opposite gender and if so what are the recommended minimum numbers of each gender?
e. What ph and water hardness does it prefer?
f. What kinds of food does it eat? Does it need its diet substituted with any special foods?
g. Does it breed alot on a regular basis and do you have the space for fry(baby fish) in your tank if it does?
etc
h. Does it need any special living requirements/conditions(i.e what i stated before about plecs being nocturnal and needing sleeping area i.e cave)?
These are some factors you should take into mind when buying fish in the future.


You need to buy a water quality testing kit/s that test for ammonia, ntrAtes and nitrItes too as these are essential to moniter in water quality and help maintain a good enviroment for the fish.
I would do a 30% water change over next day or 2 continuing for a week to help sort your water quality out as it will be bad because the tank is still cycling and has been overstocked.
When you tank a cycle you do it basically so the tank can build up good bacteria that are capable of breaking down waste in the tank, if you don't have this bacteria the waste poisons and kills the fish and/or makes them very ill- theres more about cycling posted in articles around the forum and i suggest you check them out.
During this time i would avoid cleaning the tanks filter out more than once every 12days and even so, do it in water from water changes from the tank and do not clean it sparkling clean as this is where your good bacteria lives and you do want to destroy its colony.

I would rehome/send back the 2mollys and tetras to the petshop as these fish rarely do well in 10gallon tanks and the tetras will need a bigger shoal that you cannot provide them at the moment because of the tanks issues- buying anymore fish right now would be a very bad idea.

Now, the white spots, do they look anything like these shown on the fish in the links below(i.e size, texture, shape, color etc)?;

http/www.fishpalace.org/ich_bobjohnson.jpg

http/www.fishpalace.org/ich_anonymous.jpg

 

[sylvia]

Just noticed: What are 'molly platies'? They are either mollies OR platies. Which is it? Mollies get too big for a 10 gallon, platies are perfect. If I were you, I'd get rid of everything except the platies (unless they are mollies in which case you should get rid of those too and then do a fishless cycle).

Please read through the links in my signature BTW. If you take the time, you'll find they will answer most of your questions now that you've read all the above posts.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Just noticed: What are 'molly platies'? They are either mollies OR platies. Which is it? Mollies get too big for a 10 gallon, platies are perfect. If I were you, I'd get rid of everything except the platies (unless they are mollies in which case you should get rid of those too and then do a fishless cycle).

Please read through the links in my signature BTW. If you take the time, you'll find they will answer most of your questions now that you've read all the above posts.

I already asked/said that

 

[pnyklr3]

I'm going to assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that perhaps English is a second language for our friend in Mexico.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I'm going to assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that perhaps English is a second language for our friend in Mexico.

....???

 

[pnyklr3]

Why Shuhu said Molly Platties.

 

[shuhu]

Thanks, I don't think all of you have read through ALL of the topic

Fish that have died:
2 RedEye Tetras
2 Common Plecos

Alive Fish but Ill:
2 Silver Mollies

The guy from the LPS said they were Molly Platies but I guess he got it wrong because of the Translation in Spanish - "Molly Plata") but here it's the picture of my Silver Lyretail Mollies.

I'm going to replace the ones that have died , and yes I know that a 10 Gal is too small for the Plecos but I'm going to move to another house in 3 months and will get a bigger tank then (29 or 40Gal) ) I guess that's enough time isn't it??

I have seen many pictures of diseases so I think that they DO NOT have ich, what they DO have is fungus as I don't see any spots like that, I mean they are bigger dots with the Cotton like stuff around them.

I also haven't feed them since last night, I read this somewere else, if I should not do this please let me know. Another thing, the guy from the place I get my fish food told me that I do not need a test Kit for Freshwater Aquariums only for salt water ones he basically wouldn't sell me the kit even thoug I told him my situation, he did say that it was because of the Cycle not being finished (which I already knew ) but I will go somewere else tomorrow to get one (btw, he is not the one I get the fish from, so I don't think it was bad intended)

@Tokis-Phoenix
About what you said about the Tetras, just before this whole thing happened I was about to get 4 more so that they would be in a group of 6, but yes I'll will ahve to wait for that.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Do not replace the fish that have died because if i have read your post correctly, your remaining two are ill and have fungus. I also strongly suspect your water quality is bad and has alot of issues and yes you do need a water quality testing kit despite what your lfs staff said, everyone who keeps fish will always need testing kits for as long as they keep fish as it is the only way you can accuratly moniter water quality. If you add more fish they will just get sick and add the your tank problems and it would be very irresponsable to do so too.
The reason you may have heard about cutting down on fish food is because it is somtimes used to help cut down on ammonia as the less you feed your fish, the less they poo and thus less ammonia they create but if you get more fish, not only will they get sick but it will make this effort in vain.
I would personally advise you test the water quality first and feed your fish as normal as because they are sick they will need as much nutrition as posible to help them recover. The best and most effective way you could be sorting out your water quality is by doing water changes and not starving the fish.
Making the water quality better will also help your fish recover alot faster.

 

[shuhu]

@Tokis-Phoenix

OK, thanks, I will do that, also I won't get the new fish until I get these ones healthy (I've mentioned it before ), so I'll take your advise and feed them (hope they eat). I will try to get the bigger tank ASAP since the one I have it's the one my brother previously had.

I really liked my Plecos so its worth the money.

From what youy guys have said, i will make 20% daily water changes the following days, is that right?? I am treating them with salt as well and I mentioned before that I used Malachite Green to treat the fungus but "newland" said I should not add treatments yet but I do know now that it is fungus (I'm positive) combined with the cycle not being finished, so should I keep on using the Malachite Green or not???