25 gallon tank stocking?

[Fishlover1N]

So I have a 15 gallon tank and I am upgrading to a 25 gallon. The fish going in the 25 gallon are: 3 male guppies, 3 male endler guppies, 5 green neon tetras and 2 amano shrimp. Any ideas of what else I could add?

 

[Byron]

Do you have the GH (general or total hardness) and pH of your tap water, and tank water if it is different? You have one or two issues with the fish, but I'd like to know the GH and pH.

 

[Fishlover1N]

Hi, I don't know the GH of the water. But the pH of my tap water is: 6.5 and the 15 gallon is 7.5

 

[Byron]

Hi, I don't know the GH of the water. But the pH of my tap water is: 6.5 and the 15 gallon is 7.5

If you are on municipal water (as opposed to a private well), check the website of your water authority, they usually post data on the water. Look for GH with terms like general hardness or total hardness. The carbonate hardness is useful too, it may be called Alkalinity or KH.

When testing tap water for pH, you need to ensure the CO2 is outgassed. We do this by letting a glass of water sit for 24 hours, then test. You may find a different number. As water travels from its source to your home it can assimilate CO2 which produces carbonic acid and lowers the pH. Outgassing the CO2 will allow a more accurate reading for the pH. This does not need to be done for aquarium water, just tapwater. This coold be the reason for the higher tank water pH, but the 24-hour test will (should) confirm this or not as the case may be.

Another reason for a higher tank pH is calcareous substances, such as rock, gravel or sand that have calcium.

 

[TheCountryGoldfish]

depends on what look you are going for

 

[Coryking]

I do agree with Bryon check the GH out first before buying anything. If you GH matches I would bump up the number of green neons to 15. Then I would recommend a small rasboras such as green neon rasbora and or another school of tetras maybe black neon or ember Tetra. If you have a lid you could do clown Killifish or marble hatchet fish.
For a centerpiece fish I would go for one of these three; a pair of rams, a pair of apostgrama or 3 honey gouramis. If you go for the gouramis I would add a floating plant to the tank. Anything other then duckweed is recommended since it is a pain to remove.

For bottom dewelers I would go for 12 or so Pygmy Cory's. And a small group of either dwarf neon gobies or red lipstick gobies when you start to get alalge.

If nothing hear catches your interest then go to your LFS and see what they have and write a small list of what you like fish, shrimp, crabs, anything of the sort and many of us will say if it's suitable. Of course get you GH done then we can give more suitable recommendations.

 

[Fishlover1N]

If you are on municipal water (as opposed to a private well), check the website of your water authority, they usually post data on the water. Look for GH with terms like general hardness or total hardness. The carbonate hardness is useful too, it may be called Alkalinity or KH.

When testing tap water for pH, you need to ensure the CO2 is outgassed. We do this by letting a glass of water sit for 24 hours, then test. You may find a different number. As water travels from its source to your home it can assimilate CO2 which produces carbonic acid and lowers the pH. Outgassing the CO2 will allow a more accurate reading for the pH. This does not need to be done for aquarium water, just tapwater. This coold be the reason for the higher tank water pH, but the 24-hour test will (should) confirm this or not as the case may be.

Another reason for a higher tank pH is calcareous substances, such as rock, gravel or sand that have calcium

Hi, it says that the water is 14.2dh

 

[Byron]

A GH of 14 dH is "hard" water. A subjective term, but this water is fine for fish requiring hardish water such as livebearers, and there are moderate species that will manage. There are also many very soft water species that will not be good long-term, including the green neon tetras unfortunately. This is a delicate fish and it must have soft preferably very soft water. It is not going to live its normal lifespan without softy water.

 

[Fishlover1N]

A GH of 14 dH is "hard" water. A subjective term, but this water is fine for fish requiring hardish water such as livebearers, and there are moderate species that will manage. There are also many very soft water species that will not be good long-term, including the green neon tetras unfortunately. This is a delicate fish and it must have soft preferably very soft water. It is not going to live its normal lifespan without softy water.

Ok, Is there any way to lower the GH or is it best to rehome them? I also have a betta in a seperate tank, will he be ok in hard water?

 

[Byron]

Ok, Is there any way to lower the GH or is it best to rehome them? I also have a betta in a seperate tank, will he be ok in hard water?

The only safe way to reduce GH is by dilution with some form of "pure" water. RO (reverse osmosis) is the method most used by aquarists if the GH/KH/pH are high and they want fish species suited to very soft water.

The simplest solution obviously is to keep species suited to your particular water. Preparing RO water is time consuming, somewhat expensive, and you always need to prepare the water outside the aquarium so you are always adding similar-parameter water at each water change--including those emergency changes that we all experience at some time. Or obviously using straight RO--the green neons for example would love this, it is just what they live in in their habitats. However, your guppies and endlers are livebearers and need moderately hard water, as does the shrimp (unless they are the species that are OK in soft water, most are not).

Betta are naturally soft water fish, but since they are all commercially bred and have been for decades (the common Siamese Fighting Fish species) presumably it will fare better than the green neons would in harder water. That doesn't mean it is "OK" necessarily.

 

[Fishlover1N]

The only safe way to reduce GH is by dilution with some form of "pure" water. RO (reverse osmosis) is the method most used by aquarists if the GH/KH/pH are high and they want fish species suited to very soft water.

The simplest solution obviously is to keep species suited to your particular water. Preparing RO water is time consuming, somewhat expensive, and you always need to prepare the water outside the aquarium so you are always adding similar-parameter water at each water change--including those emergency changes that we all experience at some time. Or obviously using straight RO--the green neons for example would love this, it is just what they live in in their habitats. However, your guppies and endlers are livebearers and need moderately hard water, as does the shrimp (unless they are the species that are OK in soft water, most are not).

Betta are naturally soft water fish, but since they are all commercially bred and have been for decades (the common Siamese Fighting Fish species) presumably it will fare better than the green neons would in harder water. That doesn't mean it is "OK" necessarily.

Thanks for the info! I have a RO system anyway so would It be possible to mix half tap water and half RO so It is fine for both fish?

 

[Byron]

Thanks for the info! I have a RO system anyway so would It be possible to mix half tap water and half RO so It is fine for both fish?

Mixing will result in a proportion similar to the mix. Example, mixing tap water with RO 50/50 should reduce the GH by half (KH too, and pH will likely lower). But you would want to do the mix and see the results.

As for the fish species, I am not one who advises combining species with such differing requirements. The higher the GH, the more it will affect very soft water fish like the green neons, and this is just not fair to the fish when the sole reason is to be able to have different non-compatible fish with them. The guppies and Endler's are likely going to be less impacted to some degree, but if you have their ideal water I would myself set up a suitably-sized tank to keep them in the best of health. And use straight RO for a tank with green neons and similar species.

 

[Fishlover1N]

Mixing will result in a proportion similar to the mix. Example, mixing tap water with RO 50/50 should reduce the GH by half (KH too, and pH will likely lower). But you would want to do the mix and see the results.

As for the fish species, I am not one who advises combining species with such differing requirements. The higher the GH, the more it will affect very soft water fish like the green neons, and this is just not fair to the fish when the sole reason is to be able to have different non-compatible fish with them. The guppies and Endler's are likely going to be less impacted to some degree, but if you have their ideal water I would myself set up a suitably-sized tank to keep them in the best of health. And use straight RO for a tank with green neons and similar species.

Ok, thanks. Wouldn't a tank with just RO be too soft and have not enough minerals in the water?

 

[Byron]

Ok, thanks. Wouldn't a tank with just RO be too soft and have not enough minerals in the water?

No, not if the fish species need that type of water. Some detail on fish may help.

Marine fish (that live in the oceans) require basically the same GH and pH because all the oceans of the world share the same water. Freshwater fish are very, very different. This is because freshwater is very different. When water from the ocean evaporates, it distills into clouds. The water that falls as rain or snow is pure water, having zero GH/KH and a neutral pH (though the water can assimilate CO2 and become acidic). Water is termed the universal solvent because it can assimilate more substances it comes into contact with. Water which falls on calcareous rock will assimilate calcium, magnesium, and other minerals. Water which falls in places without these rocks will be softer, and may assimilate other substances such as organics. Each body of freshwater can thus be chemically different from the rest, all depending upon what it has come into contact with along the way.

Freshwater fish have evolved from their marine ancestors and develop according to the chemical properties of the area where the rain/snow falls. These areas of freshwater are primarily geographically isolated, i.e., they are not connected. This means that each may have quite different chemistry, what we term the parameters of GH, KH and pH, depending upon the terrain. The fish species therefore, over thousands of years, evolve to function in that specific water. Fish physiology is unlike that of any terrestrial animal because of the aquatic environment. The properties of the water affects the fish as it evolves to be better suited/adjusted, so to speak.

Some fish need hard water. This is because they have evolved to function in such water, and when they are placed in soft water they have difficulty carrying out basic life processes. In hard water, the calcium and magnesium they have evolved to need are removed from the water. This brings up another crucial aspect of fish--they "drink" by assimilating water via osmosis through their cells. The water containing the minerals enters their bloodstream and is carried to internal organs including the kidneys. The kidneys function very differently in freshwater fish from marine fish, and among species of freshwater fish, all according to the water in which they have evolved. Soft water fish by contrast do not need as high a level of these minerals because they evolved in very different water that was devoid of the minerals. When soft water fish are maintained in hard water, the dissolved minerals in the water get inside the fish and tend to block the kidneys in the case of calcium for one example. The fish cannot overcome this significant problem, and it weakens and slowly (usually) dies.

Fish in much of the Amazon basin live in water that has very little dissolved minerals, so low as to basically be zero. RO water thus allows these fish to function with the minimal effort, so they ill be healthier and better adapted to deal with problems along the way. A fish weakened by having to work much harder just to exist is more prone to disease and other factors.

This is why knowing the parameters of your water is so important. Selecting fish that are designed and built to function well in such water is always going to make things much safer and easier.