20g Planted Tank (apistogramma/german blue ram?)

[xanflisher]

I recently cycled a 20g tank with just gravel seeded with beneficial bacteria from my other tanks. I have a 55g cichlid tank and a 29g glofish tank, both with fake plants. I've been looking into dwarf cichlids as an option for this tank, however many enjoy a planted tank which I'm okay with learning how to do, but I'm having trouble deciding what fish to keep because if I'm going to do it I'm going to want to love it. I love the look of a male Apistogramma cacatouides but not the females, and german blue rams. Could I keep a single male apistogramma cactouides with a single (male or female) german blue ram? (Along with another school of tetra of course) I'm not necessarily looking to breed the cichlids anyway, so this isn't a problem. I'm reading a lot of conflicting information online and not sure what to go with.

With that, I've been thinking of alternative options if I can't keep a german blue ram with a male apisto. My baseline is that I want to have one male apistogramma cactuoides, some other kind of fish, and a school. (I've been considering cherry barbs but open to other options). Any ideas are greatly appreciated!

 

[Byron]

A 20g tank is a small space to the fish, especially territorial fish like cichlids, so that is a limiting factor. Temperature is another issue, the common or blue ram in any of its varieties must have warmer water than many "tropical" species can manage long-term, in the 82-86F/28-30C range. Both of these limits need to be considered.

Aside from that, two species of cichlid in an aquarium is generally not a good idea, and in this small a tank, definitely not advisable. Two females might get along, or might not, but two males definitely would not do well.

A single male Apistogramma, with a shoal of small peaceful upper level fish, fine. Cherry Barbs are not really the best option here. "Nano" type fish like Ember Tetras, one of the Boraras dwarf rasboras, or one of the more peaceful pencilfish would be worth considering.

 

[xanflisher]

I have great heaters so the temperature isn't really an issue, but you're probably right about the smaller space not being good for two species of cichlids, I wasn't thinking of it that way.

I've rewritten about 4 responses and I've answered my own questions every time with your info, so thank you! I hadn't actually considered Ember Tetras because I haven't seen them at my LFS, but I plan on doing a run-through of all the stores in my area looking for Apistogramma Cacatuoides so I'll go ahead and search for Ember Tetras as well. I was looking for a school of red fish so if ember tetras are the best option here then that works. (If there are any others please recommend) How big of a shoal do you recommend with the single male? I have a 40g sized sponge filter and plan on having a moderately planted tank with some kind of floating plant.

 

[Byron]

I have great heaters so the temperature isn't really an issue, but you're probably right about the smaller space not being good for two species of cichlids, I wasn't thinking of it that way.

I've rewritten about 4 responses and I've answered my own questions every time with your info, so thank you! I hadn't actually considered Ember Tetras because I haven't seen them at my LFS, but I plan on doing a run-through of all the stores in my area looking for Apistogramma Cacatuoides so I'll go ahead and search for Ember Tetras as well. I was looking for a school of red fish so if ember tetras are the best option here then that works. (If there are any others please recommend) How big of a shoal do you recommend with the single male? I have a 40g sized sponge filter and plan on having a moderately planted tank with some kind of floating plant.

Among the "dwarf" rasboras in the genus Boraras there are two or three regularly seen and a couple more not so common, but all are red with some sort of black pattern. Lovely little fish. A group of 12-20. Another suitable rasbora are the smaller two of the four species in Trigonostigma, either T. hengeli or T. espei; with these a group of 10-12. You can look all of these up on Seriously Fish.

Seriously Fish — Feeling fishy?

www.seriouslyfish.com

 

[xanflisher]

You've been a great help, I plan on doing the Apistogramma with 15 ember tetras or boraras depending on what I can find locally. First, plants! I'm excited to dive into the world of planted tanks.

 

[xanflisher]

I went to my LFS yesterday and found ember tetras, but they were very lackluster. These particular didn't have very good schooling behavior and were more of a tiny transparent orange fish. However, next to them was a nice school of Serpae Tetras, would you recommend these for the apistogramma cacatuoides? If so, how many? They're a bit larger than the embers.

 

[Colin_T]

Serpae tetras are renown fin nippers and should not be kept in small tanks or with peaceful fish.

Red phantom tetras are a bit bigger than ember tetras and are peaceful, but not as colourful as Serpae tetras.

 

[GaryE]

I kept and bred cacatuoides for a number of years, both wild and domestic forms.

I would never keep them with Bororas or tiny Rasbora types, because cacatuoides can eventually grow to 9 cm, and the size difference would make life hard for the small fish. Apistos like to have a territory, and will chase out trespassers.They have incredible parental instincts and want a secure space fpr their young. That male isn't going to know a female will never show up.

He'd want a cave, as they spawn on the roof of an overhanging underwater leaf or cave in nature. Rams also have territories but spawn in the open. They won't fight over breeding spots (remember, they don't know your plans and prepare for their own agenda) but will bump into each other, and the larger, tougher cacatuoides will win. A 20 will seem very small.

Since your Cichlid would be South American, why look at Asian fish anyway? Aim for a slice of nature! If you plant and have a well cycled, adequately sized filter, you could have 6-8 tetras in there. I kept my 'caca' pairs with black neons, cardinals, silvertips, rummy noses, glowlights, and/or neons. Avoid all high bodied tetras, like serpae, or ternetzi, the tetra GMOed to make glo-tetras. They too are territorial (hence the rep for nipping in defense of their turf) and can't hold their own against a Cichlid. The torpedo shaped tetras are the wanderers that don't try to hold on to any turf.

 

[Caesar]

Along that line of thought, pencilfish would also be a nice option. Marginatus, mortenthaleri, and beckfordi are all nice. Pygmy Hatchetfish (carnegiella myersi) is a very upper level swimming fish I've enjoyed keeping in the past that could be an interesting option if you aren't after colour.

 

[Byron]

The tank size is a factor here, we are dealing with a standard (high) 20g.

Pencilfish (species in the genus Nannostomus) are good "dither" fish for dwarf cichlids, but only certain species. I have maintained some nine or ten species over the years. N. beckfordi was mentioned and is regularly available, but needs more space than a 20g, and it is quite feisty and can seriously nip fins. The males have a strong sense of territory, and I have had them attack any fish approaching the surface (their territory). N. trifasciatus is quite similar. But N. marginatus, N. morthentaleri and N. rubrocaudatus are suited, and one of the best is N. eques which swims at an oblique angle at the surface among floating plants.

Hatchetfish are also good dithers; given the space here, the species in Carnegiella are generally smaller and less active. The pygmy, C. myersi, is fine but this is a very delicate fish; the other two species are somewhat more robust.

 

[Wills]

The tank size is a factor here, we are dealing with a standard (high) 20g.

Pencilfish (species in the genus Nannostomus) are good "dither" fish for dwarf cichlids, but only certain species. I have maintained some nine or ten species over the years. N. beckfordi was mentioned and is regularly available, but needs more space than a 20g, and it is quite feisty and can seriously nip fins. The males have a strong sense of territory, and I have had them attack any fish approaching the surface (their territory). N. trifasciatus is quite similar. But N. marginatus, N. morthentaleri and N. rubrocaudatus are suited, and one of the best is N. eques which swims at an oblique angle at the surface among floating plants.

Hatchetfish are also good dithers; given the space here, the species in Carnegiella are generally smaller and less active. The pygmy, C. myersi, is fine but this is a very delicate fish; the other two species are somewhat more robust.

I love tanks with Dwarf Cichlids and Hatchet Fish it makes so much sense, if you get some floating plants and Lotus type plants for the Hatchets to swim between too it looks fantastic.

 

[Caesar]

The tank size is a factor here, we are dealing with a standard (high) 20g.

Pencilfish (species in the genus Nannostomus) are good "dither" fish for dwarf cichlids, but only certain species. I have maintained some nine or ten species over the years. N. beckfordi was mentioned and is regularly available, but needs more space than a 20g, and it is quite feisty and can seriously nip fins. The males have a strong sense of territory, and I have had them attack any fish approaching the surface (their territory). N. trifasciatus is quite similar. But N. marginatus, N. morthentaleri and N. rubrocaudatus are suited, and one of the best is N. eques which swims at an oblique angle at the surface among floating plants.

Hatchetfish are also good dithers; given the space here, the species in Carnegiella are generally smaller and less active. The pygmy, C. myersi, is fine but this is a very delicate fish; the other two species are somewhat more robust.

Somewhere along the way I thought this was a 20 long, so fair comments.

 

[Byron]

Somewhere along the way I thought this was a 20 long, so fair comments.

This is a good point...checking back, the dimensions are not given. A 20g long would indeed make a big difference. @xanflisher can you post the tank dimensions (length and width are what we need)?

 

[xanflisher]

This is a good point...checking back, the dimensions are not given. A 20g long would indeed make a big difference. @xanflisher can you post the tank dimensions (length and width are what we need)?

It is indeed a 20g long.

Along that line of thought, pencilfish would also be a nice option. Marginatus, mortenthaleri, and beckfordi are all nice. Pygmy Hatchetfish (carnegiella myersi) is a very upper level swimming fish I've enjoyed keeping in the past that could be an interesting option if you aren't after colour.

That's the thing, I am definitely after color. I want a schooling fish that matches (red or orange) the Apistogramma Cacatuoides fins, which is why I was looking into the serpae tetras, however I can see that they're fin nippers so I guess that's a no-go.

I kept and bred cacatuoides for a number of years, both wild and domestic forms.

I would never keep them with Bororas or tiny Rasbora types, because cacatuoides can eventually grow to 9 cm, and the size difference would make life hard for the small fish. Apistos like to have a territory, and will chase out trespassers.They have incredible parental instincts and want a secure space fpr their young. That male isn't going to know a female will never show up.

He'd want a cave, as they spawn on the roof of an overhanging underwater leaf or cave in nature. Rams also have territories but spawn in the open. They won't fight over breeding spots (remember, they don't know your plans and prepare for their own agenda) but will bump into each other, and the larger, tougher cacatuoides will win. A 20 will seem very small.

Since your Cichlid would be South American, why look at Asian fish anyway? Aim for a slice of nature! If you plant and have a well cycled, adequately sized filter, you could have 6-8 tetras in there. I kept my 'caca' pairs with black neons, cardinals, silvertips, rummy noses, glowlights, and/or neons. Avoid all high bodied tetras, like serpae, or ternetzi, the tetra GMOed to make glo-tetras. They too are territorial (hence the rep for nipping in defense of their turf) and can't hold their own against a Cichlid. The torpedo shaped tetras are the wanderers that don't try to hold on to any turf.

The cave part isn't an issue, I have a large centerpiece cave perfect for this situation. The goal was to have a matching schooling fish that would populate the rest of the tank.

Serpae tetras are renown fin nippers and should not be kept in small tanks or with peaceful fish.

Red phantom tetras are a bit bigger than ember tetras and are peaceful, but not as colourful as Serpae tetras.

I keep going through google for red phantom tetras and I see many of the same photos as I do when I search serpae tetras, why is that? The red phantom stock images I'm seeing aren't bad at all!

 

[Byron]

I keep going through google for red phantom tetras and I see many of the same photos as I do when I search serpae tetras, why is that? The red phantom stock images I'm seeing aren't bad at all!

You can never trust the names of fish in photos on the internet, unless you know the source site to be reliable. Heiko Bleher taught me this several years ago when he was helping identify a new fish I had acquired. Fish are frequently misnamed.

Another point, common names are basically useless for many fish. If you search the scientific name, you are more likely (but not guarnteed) to find more reliable photos. The Serpae Tetra is also known as the Red Minor Tetra in NA, and probably has several other "names" as well. The scientific name of the species is Hyphessobrycon eques. The Red Phantom Tetra is Hyphessobrycon sweglesi.

Another benefit of scientific names is you can tell something about the fish just from the name. You will note both species are in the genus Hyphessobrycon; that tells us they have a lot in common.

This species (H. eques) is closely related to some 30 Hyphessobrycon species [Weitzman & Palmer (1997) referred to this species group as the rosy tetra clade] that includes H. bentosi, H. rosaceus, H. megalopterus [Black Phantom], H. sweglesi [Red Phantom] and H. erythrostigma ["bleeding hearts"] to name but a few. It shares the common traits of a black dorsal fin and a dark (in this species black) humeral or shoulder blotch immediately posterior of the gill cover, and (usually) a red/mauve body colouration. The shade of red on the subject species varies on fish from different geographical regions. The dorsal is edged in white. This species is readily discerned from all the other rosy tetra species by the dark colour pattern on the posterior part of the anal fin that expands from the black distal (furtherest from the body) border of this fin. Weitzman & Palmer (1997) note that this dark pattern is somewhat variable on wild-caught specimens from different locations [see below].

For reasons I need not get into, the behaviours of H. eques can be very damaging in a community tank. Most of the related and similarly-patterned species are peaceful, and good community residents.