10g Nano-Reef

[Aquascaper]

The "media" of marine tanks is more limiting I think-- a marine tank is going to look like a coral reef, or an ocean scene in any case no matter what.

Aren't you forgetting seagrass beds, kelp forests, shipwrecks, mangrove swamps, coral atolls, coral reefs, beaches, harbours, lagoons, crevasses, drop-offs.................the list is endless!

If all you can think of a saltwater tank being is ocean or reef then you need to swim in the ocean more

Just becuase the popular choice is usually a reef doesn't mean to say there isn't any choice out there.

 

[tear-scar]

Originally posted by tear-scar
coral reef, or an ocean scene in any case

I believe my "ocean scene in any case" comment accounts for those. My point was that you just cannot escape the ocean theme. Where as with freshwater plants you can go anywhere-- even the ocean for that matter.

As for the swimming-- I'm a Hawaii boy bra, I go beach every weekend . . .

Or maybe it's because I see so much saltwater coral/plants/fish in their natural state, and so many marine aquaria at restaurants & hotels that I'm biased: I could just be bored from over-dose, who knows.

I don't really think there is a reason to argue though-- we're talking about the two great media of the hobby, really respected by all in it. I'm not suggesting one's better than the other; I stating that "Planted tanks are not less rewarding IMO."

My thoughts were that marine tank corals and fish/shrimp make bigger impact on the viewer, more "wow" effect-- which is mostly true. Where as planted tanks have more potential for diversity-- which is mostly true.

 

[Aquascaper]

I don't think there's anything more 'diverse' than a reef tank actually with all the different forms of life, from single celled micro-organisms to fish.

I prefer a tank full of life rather than a pretty theme, maybe that's just me. I could turn my saltwater tank into a neon pebbled, fake plant goldfish paradise but I don't see the point of keeping a fish in anything other than it's natural habitat. As for people who keep freshwater fish in a 'marine' setting...........

 

[Navarre]

Well i was gonna make a post earlier but aqua kinda got in before me.

The world of Freshwater and Marines are far different even though on the surface they look basically the same, same needs, same maintenance etc. This could not be further from the truth IMO. I can look at a fully planted freshwater tank and admire its bueaty just as easily as a freshwater person could admire a fully stocked reef tank. however what both sides of the hoby often fail to recognise is the diversity of both worlds. from freshwater rock tanks (malawi?) to fully planted tanks, the diversity is imense.

That same arguement goes to MArines, Whilst its true, the amrine world has what seems a small number of plants (basically its all algaes) there are many many different species that are used.
From Mangrove lagoons that have little to no water movement to coral dropoffs where the surges can be measured in tons per sceond passing the reef!

I think the most amazing marine tnk i saw was just macro algae.. no corals not mushrooms.. just algaes and fish. it looked amazing and kinda wierd to see the marine fish swimming in an envrinment that is considered alien to many reefkeepers.

However I do feel that plants in bothworlds are used for very different purposes Its true taht marnefish are bold so they catch the eye easier. but the clever reef keeper only has his fish there for a job to perform or to draw your eye to the real wonders of the reef, the stuff thats easily overlooked. this is where the macro algaes and corals come into play. once you are drawn into a reef tank with well balanced macroalgaes you will see a huge diversity that makes no 2 tanks ever the same even if they have the sme algaes. cant get much more diverse than that

 

[tear-scar]

Diversity of organisms is far off of the type of diversity my post was refering too. I am though, quite impressed with Navarre's description of algae use. You are right too, that the best marine tanks make the viewer look at the scape itself (the algaes, corals, etc.) and go . . . WOW. I also like the notion of countless algae species being capable of creating a different feel, even when the same ones are used depending on the scape.

Even so, the type of "diversity" I was referring to has not been addressed (well, except by me). Despite the description Navarre just gave, in every salt water tank I've ever seen (and trust me, that's not a meager handful) has relied on the same princible: Arrange the tank, choose the inhabitants, place the softscape, with the purpose of making an impact by bringing attention to the colors, the shapes, the beauty of individuals, or several types together. It's difficult to put into words, but this factor is limiting. I'll put it this way: Tthe beauty of the aquarium is ruled by the the subjects of the tank, instead of by the artistic talent/vision of the aquarist. Perhaps it is because we are a terrestrial species, but human viewers, and perhaps scapers as well, cannot transcend the fact that it is a marine tank.

I think it is because the corals and algaes and fish live in a world that seems to strange, to alien, to different to a human. However, a planted tank is different. Even though man is not a fish, man can see a field of eleocharis, and the memories of running through open fields well up in his mind, or emerge from some primal instincts. A person looks at a mound of sparkling microsorium dominating the tank, and he imagines the towering mountains in the same way, or the dense jungles, or petches of ferns, or river sides. These things are things that man can easily relate to. Because of this, the planted aquaria can choose, whether to show man something aliend to him, or to transcend the media, and touch a part of him that is in no-part a river, or pond or lake, but something man can understand.

That is closer to the diversity I'm talking about, but there are times when words cannot describe the meaning. I just have to trust that other people can grip at what I'm trying to say themselves. Marine scapers are normally smart people out of necessity-- I think you can understand.

 

[Navarre]

I know we are straying slightly off subject here so my appologies to aqua for this but what i think you are eluding too is that you can create landsape such as is possible by looking out of a country window across the fields and lowlands etc and create your oan landscape in the form of an aquascape (view not the person ).
Yes this is true i admit that but i have to disagree with the marine aquasaping not being partly created by the artisitc abilities and imagination of the keeper. I spend many weeks (months on my present project). The shape of the rocks, the structure they will create. I am currently creting some man made livrock with some very specific shapes for apart of the tank i feel i just cannot find the liverock for. Now I also have a vision in my mind as to how i wnt the tank to look. Being a reef keeper means iknow how certain corals grow and take shape, i guess in a similar way as freshwater knows how certainplants will take shape. Therefore i have taken very careful steps to plan the introduction of these corals and exactly where they will be placed. it will take much longer for them to grow of course when cimpared to freshwater plants but the vision i have can and will be achieved, (we cah shape corals by pruning also).

Perhaps we cant make a mountain view i will grant you that but i guess you cant make a coral garden either As for making anything other than a coral reef, well im sure it could be done if a person really put their mind to it but its not what most reef keepers want to be honest.

 

[Aquascaper]

And back to my comment - why anyone would want to try and replicate a mountainous landscape or open fields in an aquarium which is designed to hold fish is beyong me. Fish don't live up mountains or in open fields, they live in lakes, rivers, streams and oceans so why try and create an un-natural habitat in which to keep fish

 

[tear-scar]

Navarre-- I didn't mean to say your artistic skills aren't important-- they really are. I just meant that the media puts more limitations on you. In truth, planted tanks have more limitations than painting, but the artist skill is important in both. I'm saying too, that in a freshwater tank the aquascaper can build something a person can relate to. I think even a marine aquascaper, who understands marine life better than most viewers, feels at some level that his work is amazing because it is a place with elements that are strange, foreign, and in that way beautiful; its something he cannot truly relate to. Even growing up on a tropical island, always diving and swimming, when I swim through the reefs I always feel like I'm only a visitor.

Aquascaper-- Sorry for highjacking your thread! We're having a good conversation though. Anyway fish keeping isn't always fishkeeping for its own sake. Health and vitality can be achieved, and then pushed into place to obtain greater beauty. We don't only keep fish for the fish, we keep fish for ourselves, for the our love of beauty and creating beautiful things. There is meaning to in human creativity, and there is meaning in trying to touch the images of beauty in ourselves that are shared in no way by streams. I understand that a lot of people cannot truly appreciate art, but perhaps you can appreciate the notion of man using nature to try to create an even greater beauty. It's for that sake that I am an aquascaper-- and that is what I'd try to do no matter what media is the subject.

 

[Aquascaper]

I give up

 

[tear-scar]

Give up? On what? I was pretty certain we were having a good discussion on art/fish keeping with mutual respect? Or at least my respect to you and Navarre and Navarre's respect to me.

You must realize it would be impossible to convince me that marine keeping is superior in beauty/satisfaction than fresh water planted tank. Because, that's simply not true. I'm speaking as an art student, and this conversation has taught me a lot and made me think a lot about both sides.

This is a benefit for me, even though I started out simply with the intent of complimenting your work, while adding the side comment to defend planted tanks from your assumption that marine tanks were the best. However, this has become much more interesting than just that. I'm just sad that it seems you're not learning anything from this conversation, and are so stuck with the idea that I'm wrong about things.

 

[DannyBoy17]

How about we all agree on one thing:

Fish keeping is the most rewarding hobby a person can have That is, if they put the right amount of time, effort and care into thier tanks.

--Dan

 

[paige]

that tank is just beutiful iv never seen one like that before!!!!!!!

 

[veen]

As for the swimming-- I'm a Hawaii boy bra, I go beach every weekend . . .

ooooh i am so jealous! i absolutely love hawaii! although i've only been to the island of maui i would love to go back, every month if possible. i can't imagine getting tired of all the ocean scenes, but then i don't see them every day as you do

 

[Mr Miagi]

DUDE. that is sweet. Exactly what i want.....but much bigger!!!