1 Fish Dead And I Think Theres Another Just Cant Find It!

[woody0687]

Hi,
 
Last week i bought 6 endlers and introduced them into my 46 Litre fluval edge. The tank has been running for 6 weeks and despite initial problems with high ammonia they are all fully resolved and all test readings seem absolutley fine. I do water changes using AQUAPLus and gravel clean on a weekly basis so IMO im doing everything right.
 
I went away this weekend and before i left one of the endlers was gasping at the top and moving very slowly. When i got home yesterday he was dead. i fished him out and on examined the body and there were no marks or sign of any illnesses. Now iv noticed there is another that has completely vanished (i have no cats). He may well be caught up in a plant somewhere but iv had a good root about and cant see it. What if i cant find the body will it just get eaten up?
 
I will add here that i had 2 plants which have died in the past week these have been fully removed, could this be the problem?
 
In the tank now is:
6 Rasboras
4 endlers
2 ottos
3 guppies
2 cherry shrimp.
 
Any one with any ideas as to what may be the problem or could the dead fish just be from a bad batch?
 
There is also some brown algae forming on some of the white stones in my tank i have read this is common in new tanks and does stabilize, or is this the problem?
 
Advice much appreciated 
 
Anthony

 

[the_lock_man]

That seems rather a full tank, given that it's a 46l tank, so I'm wondering if your readings aren't as fine as you say they are.
 
Can you do another test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and post the actual numbers, please. Also are you using test strips or a liquid kit? How did you acclimatise the fish?
 
TO answer your questions, yes the body will get eaten if it's accessible to anything that has an appetite, particularly the shrimp, but also the fish. The dead fish could be from a bad lot, but as I say, I'm suspecting how good your water actually is.
 
The brown algae is most likely diatoms, which is common and won't be the problem.

 

[woody0687]

That seems rather a full tank, given that it's a 46l tank, so I'm wondering if your readings aren't as fine as you say they are.
 
Can you do another test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and post the actual numbers, please. Also are you using test strips or a liquid kit? How did you acclimatise the fish?
 
TO answer your questions, yes the body will get eaten if it's accessible to anything that has an appetite, particularly the shrimp, but also the fish. The dead fish could be from a bad lot, but as I say, I'm suspecting how good your water actually is.
 
The brown algae is most likely diatoms, which is common and won't be the problem.

 
 
For the ammonia im using the API solution and test tube this is giving a reading of 0ppm
 
For the rest im using the API 5 in 1 test strip.
 
GH - 0
KH - between 0-40 closer to the 0 shade
PH - Between 6.5 and 7
Nitrite - between 0-0.5
Nitrate - 0
 
Is anything here that bad?

 

[woody0687]

That seems rather a full tank, given that it's a 46l tank, so I'm wondering if your readings aren't as fine as you say they are.
 
Can you do another test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and post the actual numbers, please. Also are you using test strips or a liquid kit? How did you acclimatise the fish?
 
TO answer your questions, yes the body will get eaten if it's accessible to anything that has an appetite, particularly the shrimp, but also the fish. The dead fish could be from a bad lot, but as I say, I'm suspecting how good your water actually is.
 
The brown algae is most likely diatoms, which is common and won't be the problem.

In answer to the acclimatise question, the same as always.
 
float the bag for 15, then open it, introduce a small amount of tank water every 5-10 mins then release after an hour

 

[Mamashack]

Sounds like your tank may not have been fully cycled before you introduced the fish which is probably what caused the high ammonia you say you experienced and this in turn may have harmed your fish.
Always use the liquid water tests as the strip tests are notoriously inaccurate.
Ammonia and nitrIte should both be reading 0ppm. You'll need to do regular/daily water changes until it is fully cycled. You may lose more fish in the meantime if they've already been exposed to high ammonia levels.

 

[Metka]

The fact that you have 0 Nitrates within your tank would suggest to me that the cycle has yet to start.
How did you run the tank for 6 weeks? If you literally just ran the filter without adding any form of ammonia it wouldn't of done much - the nitrate cycle requires a constant form of ammonia to keep the bacteria alive.
 
When you added fish and your ammonia spiked, this is normal - it will always do this, but as you are supposed to only add a few fish at a time with a couple of weeks gap between adding new fish, this normally gives the nitrite bacteria time to multiply and consume the ammonia - then in turn letting the nitrate bacteria multiply to consume the nitrites. A massive spike in ammonia will do nothing but harm your fish - thus the generaly rule to only add a couple fish at a time.
 
Not alot you can do now, only hope that your cycle gets up and running soon, and in the mean time, keep doing very heavy water changes (60-80%) to keep the ammonia levels as low as possible.

 

[the_lock_man]

Is anything here that bad?

 
 
On the face of it, yes, the nitrite should be an unequivocal 0ppm too, whilst nitrate should be around 20ppm higher than the level of nitrate in your tapwater. That said, the test strips are not very reliable.
 
To answer other people's points, Mama, whilst you may be right (and probably are), it's the new fish that are dying rather than the original ones, so I don't think the high ammonia is relevant in this case.
 
Metka, with a bioload that high, if the filter wasn't cycled, the OP would be seeing a much higher nitrite reading, especially after having experienced an ammonia spike.
 
Woody, I would strongly suggest you get liquid tests for nitrite and nitrate. I would recommend either the Nutrafin or Salifert tests, rather than the API, but many others on here would recommend API. If you do get API, make sure nitrate bottle 2 is incredibly well shaken - to the tune of 2 minutes and more.
 
The problem I have now is that I can't rely on the test results to diagnose the problem. If they're correct, then it's likely that the fish are suffering the tail-end of the nitrite that came as a result of your ammonia dropping. If they're not accurate, then it could be you've still got high nitrite, or it could be something completely different.

 

[woody0687]

The fact that you have 0 Nitrates within your tank would suggest to me that the cycle has yet to start.
How did you run the tank for 6 weeks? If you literally just ran the filter without adding any form of ammonia it wouldn't of done much - the nitrate cycle requires a constant form of ammonia to keep the bacteria alive.
 
When you added fish and your ammonia spiked, this is normal - it will always do this, but as you are supposed to only add a few fish at a time with a couple of weeks gap between adding new fish, this normally gives the nitrite bacteria time to multiply and consume the ammonia - then in turn letting the nitrate bacteria multiply to consume the nitrites. A massive spike in ammonia will do nothing but harm your fish - thus the generaly rule to only add a couple fish at a time.
 
Not alot you can do now, only hope that your cycle gets up and running soon, and in the mean time, keep doing very heavy water changes (60-80%) to keep the ammonia levels as low as possible.

Iv just done another test and the nitrate may well be on 20! The shades are so similar on the test strips. what are perfect readings for freshwater for all elements??
 
When i set the tank up i left it for 24 hours then introduced 5 fish to speed up the cycle i removed these fish 2 weeks ago to swap for some different. It must surely be cycled now.
 
The ammonia spike lasted for 1 week which coincided with introducing new fish, but this i resloved with water changes. Haven't done a water change for about 5 days and the ammonia has remained on 0ppm.
 
could it be anything to do with the dying plants?

 

[Metka]

Oh absolutely - every living thing produces ammonia - more so when decomposing - if your plants are dieing or have died, remove them quickly to stop the ammonia from leeching into the water.

 

[woody0687]

 

Is anything here that bad?

 
 
On the face of it, yes, the nitrite should be an unequivocal 0ppm too, whilst nitrate should be around 20ppm higher than the level of nitrate in your tapwater. That said, the test strips are not very reliable.
 
To answer other people's points, Mama, whilst you may be right (and probably are), it's the new fish that are dying rather than the original ones, so I don't think the high ammonia is relevant in this case.
 
Metka, with a bioload that high, if the filter wasn't cycled, the OP would be seeing a much higher nitrite reading, especially after having experienced an ammonia spike.
 
Woody, I would strongly suggest you get liquid tests for nitrite and nitrate. I would recommend either the Nutrafin or Salifert tests, rather than the API, but many others on here would recommend API. If you do get API, make sure nitrate bottle 2 is incredibly well shaken - to the tune of 2 minutes and more.
 
The problem I have now is that I can't rely on the test results to diagnose the problem. If they're correct, then it's likely that the fish are suffering the tail-end of the nitrite that came as a result of your ammonia dropping. If they're not accurate, then it could be you've still got high nitrite, or it could be something completely different.
 

 
I will get the test kits tonight and i will will re test the water and pick this thread up again later.
 
Could it be lack of oxygen, i am assuming a dying plant would use more to try and regrow? 
I removed the plants fully yesterday!

 

[the_lock_man]

I wouldn't have thought so, no. That would affect all the fish, not just the endlers.

 

[Mamashack]

Ah I didn't read it that way, TLM.  I thought the others had been added afterwards rather than before.
(Re the liquid tests I'm going to try Salifert tests next.)
Both the dying plants and the other fish if it is dead would add to the ammonia load. Have you tried looking up the side of the filter in case the body (if there is one) has been drawn towards it, Anthony?

 

[woody0687]

Ah I didn't read it that way, TLM.  I thought the others had been added afterwards rather than before.
(Re the liquid tests I'm going to try Salifert tests next.)
Both the dying plants and the other fish if it is dead would add to the ammonia load. Have you tried looking up the side of the filter in case the body (if there is one) has been drawn towards it, Anthony?

i will have another look tonight when i get home but this one could remain a mystery! You never know could still be alive. Much doubt that though as they are usually all swimming everywhere!

I wouldn't have thought so, no. That would affect all the fish, not just the endlers.

 
What are the Endlers requirements ie temperature and PH?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Oh absolutely - every living thing produces ammonia - more so when decomposing - if your plants are dieing or have died, remove them quickly to stop the ammonia from leeching into the water.

 
Not exactly.  Animals - yes.  Plants that are healthy will use ammonia rather than produce it.  However, you are correct that dying plants will release ammonia into the water - although that's the work of the decay process, not the plants natural cycle.

 

[woody0687]

Is anything here that bad?

 
 

 
Woody, I would strongly suggest you get liquid tests for nitrite and nitrate. I would recommend either the Nutrafin or Salifert tests, rather than the API, but many others on here would recommend API. If you do get API, make sure nitrate bottle 2 is incredibly well shaken - to the tune of 2 minutes and more.

 
Right then!! Purchased the 2 kits and the results are as follows:

Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = between 5.0 and 10

So what's the verdict? It's this ok or way off the chart?