Is this normal on my Angel ?

Tyler777

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I noticed this morning this white lips on my Angel. To be honest if that was there since I got it few months ago I never noticed it until this morning.
It doesn't seem to af3ct it in any way. It still eats, swims around, gets bullied n bully others.

Can anybody with experience with Angels tell me if the white lips is normal or just part of its face ?
 

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It's not normal and appears to be excess mucous covering an injured mouth but could also be the start of Columnaris.

How long have you had the fish for?
How long has it had the white on the mouth?
Is the angelfish pairing up with another angelfish in the tank?
Have you added anything to the tank in the 2 weeks before this appeared?

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If it's just excess mucous on a sore mouth it should heal up and go away in a few days.

If it's Columnaris it will turn red and rapidly (24-48 hours) spread over the mouth and face. The fish dies shortly after that.

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Clean the tank and add some salt as a precaution. Then monitor and post more pictures if it gets worse.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate. The water change and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens so any medication (if needed) will work more effectively on the fish.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. If there is no improvement after 24 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for 1 week. If there's no improvement after a few days post more pictures. If it gets worse, post more pics.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water (2 liters or 1/2 gallon) and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.
 
How long have you had the fish for ?

3,4 months
How long has it had the white on the mouth?

I just found it this morning


Is the angelfish pairing up with another angelfish in the tank?

dunno. I have 3 more but dunno if they're female or males


Have you added anything to the tank in the 2 weeks before this appeared?

just 1 faje ornament. That one is the only one looking like that
Do a 75% water change

i did a 50% water change yesterday
l
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

did yesterday


Clean the filter

did it this morning
Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

ok

--------------------

SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water.

ok


Keep the salt level like this for 1 week.

do i have to add salt everyday ?


After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish

ok
When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water (2 liters or 1/2 gallon) and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

Ok
 
You just add salt one time unless you do a water change while there is salt in the tank. If you do a water change while there is salt in the tank, you add salt to the new water so it is the same dose rate as the aquarium, then add that water to the tank to fill it up after draining it.

Monitor it closely and post pictures asap if it gets worse. My guess is it's only a fat lip, hopefully from lip locking (pairing up) and not Columnaris, which is normally introduced into an aquarium with new fish.
 
You just add salt one time unless you do a water change while there is salt in the tank. If you do a water change while there is salt in the tank, you add salt to the new water so it is the same dose rate as the aquarium, then add that water to the tank to fill it up after draining it.

Monitor it closely and post pictures asap if it gets worse. My guess is it's only a fat lip, hopefully from lip locking (pairing up) and not Columnaris, which is normally introduced into an aquarium with new fish.
The only new fish in that tank are 2 yoyo loaches added to the tank 3 weeks ago to take care of a snails problem. But they're doing fine n killing snails.
 

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You just add salt one time unless you do a water change while there is salt in the tank. If you do a water change while there is salt in the tank, you add salt to the new water so it is the same dose rate as the aquarium, then add that water to the tank to fill it up after draining it.

Monitor it closely and post pictures asap if it gets worse. My guess is it's only a fat lip, hopefully from lip locking (pairing up) and not Columnaris, which is normally introduced into an aquarium with new fish.
I added the salt on s7nday n I think the white stuff is less it doesn't look as in the pictures I posted but I'm not 100% sure . Should I add more salt ?
 
If the white looks like is has cotton on it, then it is likely Columnaris and salt will not fix things. The treatment for columnaris, if it is indded that, is an antibiotic.

Columnaris comes in a variety of strains which vary in their virulence. It also may show somewhat different symptoms.

Ulceration of the oral mucosa also occurs, resulting in mouthrot. These mouth lesions are more lethal than are the skin lesions, since the painful oral lesions render the fish anorectic and lead to death due to starvation. Moreover, the disease spreads easily to the mandible and the maxilla. Secondary infections with fungi or other bacteria may deteriorate the situation and can be seen together with the filamentous bacteria [38]. In tropical fish, this clinical sign led to the disease being termed “cotton wool disease” or “mouth fungus” [1].
from:
Declercq, A.M., Haesebrouck, F., Van den Broeck, W. et al. Columnaris disease in fish: a review with emphasis on bacterium-host interactions. Vet Res 44, 27 (2013). https://doi.org/10.1186/1297-9716-44-27
https://veterinaryresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1297-9716-44-27
 
If the white looks like is has cotton on it, then it is likely Columnaris and salt will not fix things. The treatment for columnaris, if it is indded that, is an antibiotic.

Columnaris comes in a variety of strains which vary in their virulence. It also may show somewhat different symptoms.


from:
Declercq, A.M., Haesebrouck, F., Van den Broeck, W. et al. Columnaris disease in fish: a review with emphasis on bacterium-host interactions. Vet Res 44, 27 (2013). https://doi.org/10.1186/1297-9716-44-27
https://veterinaryresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1297-9716-44-27
So what is the name of the antibiotic n where can I buy it ?
 
Here is the thing about columnaris. There are a variety of treatments which have been used. I have had luck using a mix of the antibiotics in Maracyn and Mracyn 2. However, one of the most successful treatments for this infection is not what one might suspect. Bear in mind this disease, it it is wnay toyour fish has and i am nut suggesting it does as your pics are not real clear and you are the closest eyes on the fish not mine, is Flavobacterium columnare.

You will need to to do your own research on the dosing methodology to use. As you will see some do a contrinuous treatment while other do a few bath treatments of much shorter durations of exposure.

Diquat dibromide is a pesticide (herbicide) active ingredient that has been in use since the 1960’s. It also has many formulations that are legal for aquatic use. Since at least the 1970’s it has also been used by some fish hatchery managers and fish farmers to control bacterial infections. Anecdotal observations by hatchery managers throughout the US indicate that treatments of 15-18 ppm for 1-3 hours up to three consecutive or alternating days is an effective dose range.

In 2007, a study protocol for an INAD (investigational new animal drug) was issued for a diquat formulation to determine the efficacy of diquat to control mortality caused by bacterial gill disease and external flavobacteriosis in a variety of fish species.

Two published studies are worth mentioning. In a 2004 paper, channel catfish fingerlings were challenged with 4 virulent isolates of Flavobacterium columnare and treated with potassium permanganate, chloramine-T, hydrogen peroxide, copper sulfate and diquat. At 20 hours, the fish were treated with indefinite bath treatments. The untreated controls suffered 100% mortality. The fish treated with diquat suffered no mortalities. Bath treatments with chloramine-T and potassium permanganate reduced mortality from 100% to 75% and 69% respectively, but the copper sulfate and hydrogen peroxide were not effective.

In a 2008 paper, channel catfish fingerlings were challenged by abrasion and waterborne exposure with Flavobacterium columnare and treated at 22-hr with four different concentrations (2.5, 5.0, 10.0, & 15ppm) of diquat for 6-hr. At the conclusion of the trial, 21-days post challenge, the untreated fish had experience 95% mortality. The 5.0, 10.0 and 15.0ppm treatments experience 68%, 59% and 49% mortality respectively.

Diquat will not have any effect on fish with internal infections. Only antibiotics could have any impact on this type of infection, but it does appear that diquat can be another “tool in the toolkit” to attempt to control or limit bacterial infections in trout raceways.
from https://haywood.ces.ncsu.edu/diquat-for-infectious-disease-control-in-fish/

Bear in mind that different species of fish react differently to specific diseases etc, and then to the various potential treatments. From what I can tel from reading about the use of Diquat for columnaris seems to be a decent option. I would assume that one consideration would be the xaost of a smaller amount of Dizuat vs. the needed antibiotics for any given volume of water in one's tank.

Also, consider this from the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources:
Post-Treatment Water Use Restrictions

There are no restrictions on swimming or eating fish from water bodies treated with diquat. Treated water should not be used for drinking water for one to three days, depending on the concentration used in the treatment. Do not use treated water for pet or livestock drinking water for one day following treatment. The irrigation restriction for food crops is five days, and for ornamental plants or lawn/turf, it varies from one to three days depending on the concentration used.
from https://www.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/legacy/document/2020/Oct/07354626838.pdf
 

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