Tank mate?

Sugar26393 · Wednesday at 2:29 PM

Hi, a newbie here who became interested in aquarium, and I just got a new tank I received it as an early Xmas gift. It’s 55 litres tank 45cm long 36cm wide 34cm height, my tank is currently being cycled..

I’m planning to get a red Betta fish
3 kuhli loaches
3 amano shrimp

I really want to add small black fish? That would get along with the Betta?

I was told not to add tetras, neon, guppy, mollies. As they will nip and bully the Betta?

i be adding in the Betta very last…

Please be kind, as this my first fish!

Essjay · Wednesday at 3:10 PM

A couple of things -

The tank may not actually hold 55 litres water. I once had a "54 litre" tank which actually held 45 litres water (I measured it in when I set it up)

Kuhli loaches need a lot more than 3 I'm afraid. I wouldn't keep less than 10. When there aren't enough of them they hide all the time so you'd never see them.

Bettas are actually best kept alone, maybe with a snail for company. Some bettas are aggressive and will attack - or try to - anything else in the same tank. I had a betta which dismembered cherry shrimps. Other bettas are laid back and are easily bullied by other fish.
Some species of fish just cannot help themselves when presented with long flowing fins, and species not known to be fin nippers can shred a betta's tail and other fins.
So, may I suggest not putting a betta in this tank. If you really want one, how about a smaller tank, around 25 litres?

Next question - do you know if you have hard or soft water? You should be able to find this on your water company's website, though if it's Dwr Cymru they do make it hard to find. If it is Dwr Cymru go to this page and enter your postcode (about a third of the way down the page)

In your area | Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water

We can keep you informed about any new map items in your area when provided with your postcode.

www.dwrcymru.com

That should give a map of where you live and in the menu bar above the map should be "water quality" with an arrow to open a drop down box. In that box it says "for more information about water hardness in this area click here". Clicking the 'click here' link opens a pdf with a lot of little squares with numbers in them. You need the numbers in the squares for
Hardness [total] mg/l - we call that ppm
Hardness [German] - we call that dH.
These are the two units used in fish keeping; fish profiles will give a species' range in one or other unit.

Or buy a GH tester, it might be easier

The reason you'll be asked for your hardness is that fish have evolved over millions of years in water of a certain hardness. It is easier to keep fish which originate in water with similar hardness to your tap water.

WhistlingBadger · Wednesday at 3:11 PM

Welcome! You've come to the right place.

A 55 liter is a small tank, so just start out realizing you're going to be pretty limited in the fish you can keep. It is a great size for a betta. You will hear different opinions about betta tank mates, and it depends somewhat on the personality of your specific fish. In my experience, Betta splendens do best alone or with lethargic bottom dwellers. I've kept them with various microrasboras, and they seem not to live very long. They seem to be solitary, and I believe that tankmates cause them stress. Unless you get an aggressive one, in which case they just unleash a killing spree and eliminate the problem for you. Either way, it isn't ideal.

In my experience, bettas do fine with amano shrimp, and just ignore them. Kuhlis are very social fish and like to be in a large group, at least six or seven, ten or twelve is better. Will their movements stress your betta? I don't know. I would recommend keeping either just the betta and the shrimp, or the kuhlis with some kind of schooling fish.

Edit: Essjay is right, knowing your water hardness is important, too.

Sugar26393 · Wednesday at 3:16 PM

Essjay said:
A couple of things -

The tank may not actually hold 55 litres water. I once had a "54 litre" tank which actually held 45 litres water (I measured it in when I set it up)

Kuhli loaches need a lot more than 3 I'm afraid. I wouldn't keep less than 10. When there aren't enough of them they hide all the time so you'd never see them.

Bettas are actually best kept alone, maybe with a snail for company. Some bettas are aggressive and will attack - or try to - anything else in the same tank. I had a betta which dismembered cherry shrimps. Other bettas are laid back and are easily bullied by other fish.
Some species of fish just cannot help themselves when presented with long flowing fins, and species not known to be fin nippers can shred a betta's tail and other fins.
So, may I suggest not putting a betta in this tank. If you really want one, how about a smaller tank, around 25 litres?

Next question - do you know if you have hard or soft water? You should be able to find this on your water company's website, though if it's Dwr Cymru they do make it hard to find. If it is Dwr Cymru go to this page and enter your postcode (about a third of the way down the page)

In your area | Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water

We can keep you informed about any new map items in your area when provided with your postcode.

www.dwrcymru.com

That should give a map of where you live and in the menu bar above the map should be "water quality" with an arrow to open a drop down box. In that box it says "for more information about water hardness in this area click here". Clicking the 'click here' link opens a pdf with a lot of little squares with numbers in them. You need the numbers in the squares for
Hardness [total] mg/l - we call that ppm
Hardness [German] - we call that dH.
These are the two units used in fish keeping; fish profiles will give a species' range in one or other unit.

Or buy a GH tester, it might be easier

The reason you'll be asked for your hardness is that fish have evolved over millions of years in water of a certain hardness. It is easier to keep fish which originate in water with similar hardness to your tap water.

Thank you for replying! These is what came up

Do you think it be best just to add black corydoras instead of kuhli loaches or tetra fishes?

Sugar26393 · Wednesday at 3:17 PM

WhistlingBadger said:
Welcome! You've come to the right place.

A 55 liter is a small tank, so just start out realizing you're going to be pretty limited in the fish you can keep. It is a great size for a betta. You will hear different opinions about betta tank mates, and it depends somewhat on the personality of your specific fish. In my experience, Betta splendens do best alone or with lethargic bottom dwellers. I've kept them with various microrasboras, and they seem not to live very long. They seem to be solitary, and I believe that tankmates cause them stress. Unless you get an aggressive one, in which case they just unleash a killing spree and eliminate the problem for you. Either way, it isn't ideal.

In my experience, bettas do fine with amano shrimp, and just ignore them. Kuhlis are very social fish and like to be in a large group, at least six or seven, ten or twelve is better. Will their movements stress your betta? I don't know. I would recommend keeping either just the betta and the shrimp, or the kuhlis with some kind of schooling fish.

Edit: Essjay is right, knowing your water hardness is important, too.

I’m having a second thought about getting the kuhli loaches! What about corydoras? Are they good with the Betta? And shrimp?

Essjay · Wednesday at 3:31 PM

Your hardness is 115 ppm/6.5 dH. You have soft water, the majority of soft water fish will be fine with that.

Shrimps depend on the betta. I've had a betta which dismembered cherry shrimps, and another which didn't even eat baby shrimps. There's no way to tell until you buy a betta.

MattW · Wednesday at 3:33 PM

Welcome to the forum! :hi:

If your water is suitable for a betta. Do watch their behavior at the store before purchase. If they are housed with other fish then even betta (pardon the pun). My first betta was housed with panchax at the store. I watched it for around 10-15 minutes and saw no aggression while the tank next door a betta was housed with lemon tetra if I remember correctly. That betta was constantly becoming aggressive to any fish that came near it. They have a wide range of personalities those fish

WhistlingBadger · Wednesday at 4:28 PM

Essjay said:
Your hardness is 115 ppm/6.5 dH. You have soft water, the majority of soft water fish will be fine with that.

Shrimps depend on the betta. I've had a betta which dismembered cherry shrimps, and another which didn't even eat baby shrimps. There's no way to tell until you buy a betta.

I've heard that about cherry shrimp. But I've kept several bettas with amano shrimp, and they've all completely ignored them. I suspect this has something to do with the combination of the amano's cryptic coloration, size (too big to be seen as prey) and lethargic personalities.

My sparkling gouramis, on the other hand, were always having a go at the amanos, which was pretty funny as they were about 1/3 the size of their would-be prey.

Sugar26393 · Thursday at 2:47 AM

WhistlingBadger said:
I've heard that about cherry shrimp. But I've kept several bettas with amano shrimp, and they've all completely ignored them. I suspect this has something to do with the combination of the amano's cryptic coloration, size (too big to be seen as prey) and lethargic personalities.

My sparkling gouramis, on the other hand, were always having a go at the amanos, which was pretty funny as they were about 1/3 the size of their would-be prey.

Hmm would it make any difference if I add the ghost shrimp? That I’ve seen? I was told I need to get a shrimp to keep the tank clean? I decided to get black corydoras 4? Instead of kuhli loaches. Or tetra, was hoping to get something in a middle section with male Betta, but it’s fine.

at least the Betta will have all the space!

Your sparkling gouramis are with Betta?

Sugar26393 · Thursday at 2:50 AM

MattW said:
Welcome to the forum!

If your water is suitable for a betta. Do watch their behavior at the store before purchase. If they are housed with other fish then even betta (pardon the pun). My first betta was housed with panchax at the store. I watched it for around 10-15 minutes and saw no aggression while the tank next door a betta was housed with lemon tetra if I remember correctly. That betta was constantly becoming aggressive to any fish that came near it. They have a wide range of personalities those fish

Will definitely do that, but will need to find another fish pet shop as the one I got, they want 60£ for one Betta. Which is expensive if I’m honest. I did call around and manage to find one Betta for 10£ red crown tail male Betta. So will go there and check them out if they are alone in the tank I will just get the 4 black corydoras with one Betta

Sugar26393 · Thursday at 2:51 AM

Essjay said:
Your hardness is 115 ppm/6.5 dH. You have soft water, the majority of soft water fish will be fine with that.

Shrimps depend on the betta. I've had a betta which dismembered cherry shrimps, and another which didn't even eat baby shrimps. There's no way to tell until you buy a betta.

Didn’t know getting a fish would be this stressful

I just don’t want any bullying going on or nipping. I still got time before I get the Betta.

Essjay · Thursday at 3:28 AM

Cories are very social and are another type of fish which need more than 4 - again at least 10 of them. And sand on the bottom is better for them than gravel (you haven't said what substrate you have, but something to bear in mind).

Besides the difficulties of tank mates for a betta, the dimensions make it more difficult with the length being 45 cm/18 inches. It's only really suitable for one of the dwarf species of cory - pygmies, habrosus (salt & pepper cories) and hastatus. It also limits the choice of fish such as tetras as most need at least 60 cm swimming length. You might get away with one of the smaller Boraras species - but not with a betta as they are tiny fish which a betta could see as food.

If this were my tank, I'd go with one of two options -
a betta and one of the larger, less colourful shrimps, and maybe a nerite snail
a large shoal of one of the Boraras species OR ember tetras and a large shoal of pygmy cories.

Pygmy cories are more readily available than the other two dwarf cory species (I've only seen hastatus in shops once, for example) and there are a few Boraras to choose from.

Search Results boraras — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

Sugar26393 · Thursday at 4:33 AM

Essjay said:
Cories are very social and are another type of fish which need more than 4 - again at least 10 of them. And sand on the bottom is better for them than gravel (you haven't said what substrate you have, but something to bear in mind).

Besides the difficulties of tank mates for a betta, the dimensions make it more difficult with the length being 45 cm/18 inches. It's only really suitable for one of the dwarf species of cory - pygmies, habrosus (salt & pepper cories) and hastatus. It also limits the choice of fish such as tetras as most need at least 60 cm swimming length. You might get away with one of the smaller Boraras species - but not with a betta as they are tiny fish which a betta could see as food.

If this were my tank, I'd go with one of two options -
a betta and one of the larger, less colourful shrimps, and maybe a nerite snail
a large shoal of one of the Boraras species OR ember tetras and a large shoal of pygmy cories.

Pygmy cories are more readily available than the other two dwarf cory species (I've only seen hastatus in shops once, for example) and there are a few Boraras to choose from.

Search Results boraras — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

I knew I forgot to say it. I got a fine sand in the tank with large sponge filter, with airstone Oxygen.

Honestly so glad I found this forum, as the pet store kept saying I can add something that shouldn’t be

I was told not to add tetra as they get nippy? And would bully the Betta?

I really like the black Phatom tetra but was told I would be evil if I get those as they will attack the Betta?

So I thought of adding the black neon tetra, was told the same thing on Reddit. I was told the best to get if I want a black fish to get black corydoras but since you said I would need more than 4 seems like it’s out of question

I don’t really like snails if I’m being honest

and I be adding 3 ghost shrimp is that good?

I truly appreciate any advice, really I didn’t know that stocking fish would be that stressful.

Essjay · Thursday at 4:48 AM

I wouldn't keep either of those tetras in a 45 cm/18 inch long tank. And pet stores are just about the worst source of advice as many workers are trained in how to make a sale without any real knowledge about the fish they are selling.

Seriously Fish is not perfect but it's one of the best sites out there for fish research. Each profile gives info on the fish's original habitat, it's pH hardness and temperature ranges, types of food etc - and the minimum tank size in terms of tank footprint rather than volume.

Black phantom tetras need a tank at least 80 cm long

Hyphessobrycon megalopterus – Black Phantom Tetra (Megalamphodus megalopterus, Megalamphodus rogoaguae) — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

as do black neon tetras

Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi – Black Neon Tetra — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

Many tetras (and other types of fish) are regarded as peaceful, non-nipping fish. But the long flowing fins of bettas can provoke even the most placid tetra; they don't seem able to resist nipping long flowing fins.

It's a double problem - fish that are OK in a tank with 45 cm swimming room and fish which are OK with bettas (either nipping the betta or a betta attacking/chasing the other fish)

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