Shipment done...

Earlier today I brought two parcels to the courier service ready for shipment. One parcel will go to Spain and contains a number of wild guppy strains with location and year of collection. Something guppy purists find very important to have such data as well.
And a parcel that's shipped domestic. In there are Blue star endlers and Dwarf merry widows (Phallichthys tico).

Hopefully, all fish will arrive safe and sound to their new owners. When shipping abroad there's alwaays more risk than domestic shipment.

I have only shipped within the country. But I have bought fish shipped from other countries. This include S. America, China and Indonesia. These fish usually arrive within 24 hours of being shipped. The key is to have all the needed clearances etc. in place as required. Always follow the rules for sending both our of the country of origina and the country or arrival.

I have had more domestic shipments go awry than anything coming in from overseas. But I also ship more boxes than I receive. The one thing I have learned is always to pack for there to be a delay, especially if needing to add heat or cold packs.

Also, it doesn't hurt to sacrifice a live chicken while you dance around the boxes before you ship. Yes, I am joking. Only kill the chicken if you plan to have it for dinner. The fish gods don't care if you eat it.

TwoTankAmin said:

The one thing I have learned is always to pack for there to be a delay, especially if needing to add heat or cold packs.

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I also use breathing bags in case it takes longer before they arrive destination. And breathing bags takes the stress level down.

Unfortunately I ship almost exclusively plecos. I am not sure how hey will do in breather bags. I have never received any fish in breather bags either (so far).

Also, how do you double bag breathers how does one meet the stupid requirements of both FedEx and UPS to use 4 ml bags and to double bag? I say stupid because it is very difficult to use bags that thing on smaller fish.

Finally, How does one ship a large number of fish in a box of breather bags? If you stack then so the bags in the center are all up against other breeder bags, how do those "buried" bags get air?

I do know when I worked with a partner years back to import essentially 350 plecos, mostly zebras, there were 7 boxes each containing 50 fish. My partner did the clearing and receiving and I covered the cost. He told me the fish were all individually bagged. This was done using a machine which bags fish and seals the bags.


I received and order which was supposed to contain 100 almost 2 inch zebra plecos and 15 L173 plecos of similar size. They travelled from Euerope to California and then to me in NY. They arrive, to me sent airport to airport, in just two bags. There were only 99 zebras in one bag and the 15 other fish in another. Unfortunately ther was one DOA L173 and 3 DOA zebras. I lost one more zebra during unbagging. I was refunded for the 5 dead fish. That is a loss rate of 4.34%. (Note: The 99 zebras in a huge double bag which contained about 3 inches of water and about 20 inches of air.)

When considering the distance the fish travelled and the time it took, that is not a bad result. I am never happy to have fish I sent or fish sent to me die, but I am also a realist. There are a number of things along the way we cannot control and the goal is to lose the fewest fish possible. Of course 0 is ideal but also not practical when the numbers involved are large.

When I ship fish I purge them first, i.e. they are not fed for a day for smaller fish and 2 or 3 for bigger ones. This should reduce the pooping along the way. I used to put a bit of dechlor/ammonia detoxifier into the bags until I learned these things are both reducing agents- they use up some of the oxygen in the water. I learned almost 15 tears ago from my friend Rachel O. to use a piece of Poly-Bio Marine Poly Filter in every bag.

Another important and patented feature of the "Poly Filter" is its unique ability to change a different color with the absorption of specific pollutants. It turns blue with a copper salt, light green to aqua with free copper, orange with iron, red with aluminum, yellowish green with ammonia and white to beige to brown to black with the absorption of harmful organics.

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https://www.poly-bio-marine.com/

Most of the time my fish arrive at their destination with the Poly either white or a bit browned because it has absorbed organics (like a bit of fish poop).

I can also say it has been well a over a decade since anything I shipped contained any DOAS. But the fish I have spawning and which I sell to cover my hobby costs are expensive and I am not a business. So, I am not shipping tons of fish, just ones that are expensive and it is a lot harder on a seller and buyer to lose anything when the fish involved can cost up to several $100 each.

In the past month I have shipped a total of 53 fish in 4 boxes with 100% arriving alive and healthy. A lot of these were fish at least 3 inches and with spikey fins. I can also say that I hate shipping fish despite being pretty good at it. If a buyer is able/willing to pick up, I usually discount the price by about 20%. I have had a few buyers fly in from as far away as Kansas City for that savings.

Considering how many fish I have sent and received and none in breather bags, I wounder how widespread their use is. I know some folks swear by them but I not so sure they are getting either a larger number of fish or larger size fish. I think these bags are best for smaller fish and fewer in number being sent.

Breathing bags come in several sizes. So, also bags available for bigger fish or a bigger amount of smaller fish. The good thing of breathing bags is that fish can stay alive for over 3 weeks if needed. Some of my shipments took over three weeks because of the corrupt customs of the country of destination. And they all survived. We had some bags coming in that were meant as entries for shows where I was a judge almost four weeks after the show. And they all survived and had fry.
Because the bag is completely filled with water, no clutching of the water will happen. You could even throw those filled bags but I wouldn't recommend it. But it's possible. Fish have way less stress during shipment this way. And the package can be smaller than in bags partially filled with oxygen.
I also prefer them because in case of a serious delay in shipment, they're better off in breathing bags. To use breathing bags properly, it shouldn't be bagged twice. In that case, there's a better regulation of oxygen coming in and CO2 coming out. But I do put a breathing bag in a plastic container of a certain size, so damage of the bag is zero. The contaner will be big enough to have sufficient oxygen and when the size will be critical, I'll make holes in that container. In case of the outdoor temperature is getting too low, one or more heatpacks will be added. But you need to be careful that the heatpacks won't use too much oxygen as well.

If a shipment wll only take one or two days, I use normal fish bags. Customers abroad can have those fish also within 24 hours but most of them are not willing to pay a high rate. So, I always tell them beforehand that if they want a lower rate, the shipment may take longer. But sometimes, in case of a low shipping rate, the parcel will be delivered in one or two days. But that's just luck. I always advise when a shipment should happen abroad that 4 days would be an acceptable period of time. Most will choose this way of shipment.

I don't use any dechlorinator for we don't have any chlorine in our water supply. So, also not in our tanks.

How do you keep a 6 month old 1.5 inch fish alive for 3 months without food? The fish I am referencing live for over 20 years and take a few years to reach sexual maturity? For some these number may be longer?

The best I have done with regular bags was for fish to take almost 5 days from NY to Alaska. I was amazed they all made it alive.

But re temperature. If I understand correctly guppy temp range is 17 -28 C (62.6 - 82.4F). Most of the fish I ship will die in water under 70F for a bit of time. I usually bag them in about 84F water as i expect it to cool a bit befire I ship. I sent a dozen fish about 2 weeks ago to a member here. They went from NY - CA and arrived fine. The box had a 30 and a 40 hour heat pack. But I have 60 and 72 hour ones when the weather is colder. My fish can survive at 92 F OK, but at 62 for any length of time they are dead fairly quickly.

What I, and pretty much anybody who ships fish hates is there is zero control of what happens once we drop them with the shipper. And neither FedEX, UPS or the USPS will insure live contents.

Btw, CO2 in fish bags actually protects the fish from ammonia. CO2 creates a small amount of carbonic acid in water. And the more acid water is, the lower the pH. The lower the pH of water, the more of any Total Ammonia that is present, the more of it of is Ammonium rather than Ammonia. Combined with the polyfilter I add, ammonia is not a worry.

Also, can you ship fish which gulp water at the surface on a regular basis in breather bags? Also, can I assume you cannot ship fish in any bags taking 3 weeks if the outside temps are below freezing? I do know Unitheat put out a 120 hour heat pack in 2019. Noy sure how well it works but they say it takes 60 minutes for it to get warm. I always open heatpacks and must feel them warming before i will put them into a box.

BTW, another trick Rachel taught me was to combine a 24 or 30 hour pack with longer ones in a box. Apparently the shorter term ones heat up to peak output pretty fasy and then they go downhill from there while the longer term ones heat up more slowly, but once they hit peak, they tend to hold the heat level it longer.

TwoTankAmin said:

How do you keep a 6 month old 1.5 inch fish alive for 3 months without food?

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I've mentioned three weeks and not three months.

TwoTankAmin said:

If I understand correctly guppy temp range is 17 -28 C (62.6 - 82.4F).

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They can even go lower if they are used to it. I don't use heaters. Most of my livebearers are used to lower temperatures. Especially, those that are kept outdoors. I always harvest them somewhere in fall.

TwoTankAmin said:

What I, and pretty much anybody who ships fish hates is there is zero control of what happens once we drop them with the shipper. And neither FedEX, UPS or the USPS will insure live contents

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That's why I note the following on my stocklist when people want to purchase fish from me:
Important note: Unfortunately, shipping abroad involves certain risks. From the moment I deliver the parcel to the courier service, my responsibility ceases and the possible further risks (loss or damage to a parcel and/or contents) are entirely up to the recipient.

TwoTankAmin said:

Noy sure how well it works but they say it takes 60 minutes for it to get warm. I always open heatpacks and must feel them warming before i will put them into a box.

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I get the heatpack out of its foil and put them in the microwave if they don't heat up fast enough.

Sorry I meant weeks not months (brain freeze). But, with no food some young fish cannot live for 3 weeks. I have never seen foil wrapping for heat packs it is always plastic. The heat packs typically used here for shipping fish are activated by oxygen. "Commercially, there are 2 other commonly sold types of instant hot packs. One heats up when exposed to air. This hot pack functions as iron reacts with oxygen to form iron (III) oxide, an exothermic reaction."

Basically the iron it becoming rust and this process generates heat. Unitheat says not to pre-warm them but , IMO, that is BS. Heat packs do fail to heat so I am not willing to trust that they will do so. My preacticw is ti have the boax packed and the label generated and thenI open the packs. They do not get put in and the box sealed unless I know they are both working. If I am using three I want them all to be working. Also, this type of heat pack is single use and if it gets wet, it wont work or will stop working is it is doing so when it gets wet.

I am always interested in this sort of stuff as what you and I do are almost the opposite in terms of the fish and their needs. I only have one tank without a heater, it is a 5.5 gal. on a shelf 6+ feet above the floor. It is warm up there and the things in it do fine without a heater. My coolest tank (still with a heater) is 76F (24.4C). But the fish we both send usually arrive alive, but using entirely different methods at times.

I once had a heater failure where it got stuck full on in a 40 gal. tank. When I discovered it, the two discus were dead, the rummy nose tetras were mush balls but the six L450 Hypancistrus were all hunkered down in caves, alive. They spawned for the first time a few weeks later. I dropped the tank temp from 104F to 80F as fast as I could do so as the result of a big water changes.

My only live bearers were some common orange swordtails in my first tank. After that, I dove into Montezumae.

TwoTankAmin said:

But, with no food some young fish cannot live for 3 weeks.

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The fry that were born in there were not three weeks old. Theyw ere younger. The females had given birth along the way during shipment. But because they were way too late at destination, the adults were out of the competition.

TwoTankAmin said:

I have never seen foil wrapping for heat packs it is always plastic.

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Overhere there are heatpacks in plastic sealed and heatpacks that are sealed in a foil,

TwoTankAmin said:

After that, I dove into Montezumae.

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I still have montezumaes overhere. Btw, there are multiple phenotypes of X.montezumae depending on the location of origin. MInes are from the Rio Tamasopo

I had them from 3 locations. I think at least two of them originated with Gary Lange. I did not get them from him directly. It has been so long since I kept them that this old brain has forgotten the locations. I seem to recall my third group was called a Rascon strain.

The above is likely the only pic of them I still have. When I upgraded from Windows 98 to XP I lost a lot of my pics during the migration.

TwoTankAmin said:

The above is likely the only pic of them I still have. When I upgraded from Windows 98 to XP I lost a lot of my pics during the migration.

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For about three months ago I lost a lot of files. My external hard drive crashed in a sudden. There was no way to recover those files.

Multiple backup, cd, dvd, usb stick and external hard drives. Save the same files on each of those and keep them dark, dry and safe. Plug the USB stick and hard drive into a pc every 6 months and keep the cds and dvds in a cool dark spot.

And as a bit more security, make new copies on new cds, dvd, usb sticks and hard drives every couple of years.

There was a company playing with a new type of disc and they apparently used an ink that didn't fade. So as long as the disc wasn't badly scratched, the information should last forever. However, I can't remember the name of the company or what they called the discs.

I have 4 usb sticks and an external hard drive. All my family history stuff is on two of the sticks and the hard drive. Everything else is on the other two sticks and the hard drive. During a month I save things to two folders on my laptop and at the end of each month I copy the new things onto the sticks had hard drive.

I back up with paper. Guess I am old fashion but if it is important to me I print and put in a file cabinet. Pictures I periodically browse with Linda and we select those we want to keep and have them developed and added to scrapbooks.

Just old fashioned I suppose but it works well for me.

I used to keep my family history stuff on paper. Then it got so much it was a fire hazard when it was kept on a shelf in the wardrobe