How many fish for my tank?

Deeznuts · Apr 17, 2024

Hey guys, I’ve tried to look online, and I’m getting a lot of contradicting advice, considering the variables depending on the fish I’m interested in.

I have a 180-litre tank but only have 160 litres of water. I have a 200 Eheim pick-up filter and 200-watt heater to make up for heat loss through the open-top aquarium.

I currently have some starter platys. 6 in total.

I'm looking to get 2 common bristle nose plecos for a clean-up crew.

I have been advised barbs would be a nice edition as they'd match the platy's speediness and their water hardness preference levels. I naturally have hard water where I live.

I would like to get two dwarf cichlids but I know with standard size cichlids, it's best to get them in a group so there's more of them to chase and they're not focused on one cichlid.

Would it be possible to have a male and female dwarf cichlid by themselves? Or, do they folllow the same principle as regular cichlids, and/or is it different for male and female?

My tank is below for a visual representation. I know some have already seen but for those that haven't and can offer advice.

Thank you in advance

Ceez · Apr 17, 2024

You basically have a 50g tank.

As far as bristlenose go I would advise to do your best to get 2 females or 2 males and not one of each or you'll soon be infested with bristlenose fry. They breed like rabbits and unless you are ready to deal with fry and the massive bioload it's gonna put on your tank you could have a crash and lose all of your fish.

There are fish better suited for cleanup crew duties. Chinese algae eaters never stop, oto's are another and corys are super cool in schools and rummage through all of your substrate. Clown loaches will also dig through your substrate even though I wouldnt call them a cleanup crew persay and they are loads of fun with their antics.

50g tank will hold quite a few fish and what you want right now isn't that big of a deal. Heavily stocked tanks can be achieved through a regular maintenance routine and steadily increasing your bioload meaning not stocking your tank all at once.

Someone else can weigh in on cichlids, I haven't kept them since I was a kid.

Aqua67 · Apr 17, 2024

First and foremost, look into getting fish that will thrive in your type of water. If you have hard water, know your parameters so you can research the species you plan to acquire.

Yes, I was going to say I wouldn’t put 2 plecos in your tank. One is plenty and they are quite messy. I loved my L144 in my 46 gallon bowfront and I was sad when he time ended. They need driftwood to gnaw on and it aids their digestion. They scrape away at your driftwood and that makes a mess too. Depending on your piece, sometimes pieces fall apart and you need to get another piece. I don’t see much driftwood in your aquarium, and it is so pretty just the way it is. There are other good options with a smaller bioload though.

If you keep fish that like to hunt live food, especially micro hunters that scan the substrate, and have a mouth that can fit an amphipod, then you might appreciate the scud. They eat the same stuff shrimp do (biofilm, algae and detritus), plus they are a nutritious snack for any fish that catches one and they breed like crazy. You will always suck them out when you vacuum the gravel but you likely won’t crash the colony. They keep a tank clean and fish happy and possibly even in breeding condition. Some micropredator fish include badis badis,

Chinese algae eaters may do a good job (I don’t know, I’ve never kept them), but I hear they can be “aggressive” with tankmates and I’ve seen people on the “free fish rehoming” groups posting theirs up for new waters. One Siamese algae eater might be a good addition, but I don’t see much algae in your tank, and they have a good sized bioload.

Nerite snails are pretty and grow to a decent size, but they will likely lay little white eggs which will never hatch or produce babies as they need brackish water, but the little egg casings stick around a long time. With effort they can be removed, but there will be many to remove. I have Nerite in a couple of my tanks and I don’t mind the white dots. To me, it is just another natural feature of a ecosystem I try to balance.

Shrimp have a minuscule bioload and they are great at cleaning up. They can also become a snack for anything that can fit them in their mouths. Your tank would probably look beautiful with 25 yellow neocardina. They come in many color and pattern varieties, but they probably need softer water than you have.

I think danios don’t mind hard water, they’re quite active. Leopard danios are pretty, so are zebra danios.

You could keep one electric blue acara (my avatar), they are beautiful fish and interactive. You could also keep a lone angelfish but that would depend on your future hope for other fishes to keep. If you like the smaller fishes, it may be best to forego the cichlids, although I think a white angelfish would look stunning in that tank. I spend a lot of time watching my tank with a “centerpiece” angelfish. Perhaps a Koi colored Angelfish would go well in your aquarium. They would keep any over abundance of fry in your aquarium in check, most likely. They will devour shrimp too. I’m including a photo of my aquarium with one gorgeous angelfish, such an elegant fish to watch swim, very interactive with their human.

I think if you get a pair of cichlids you may be asking for trouble. They become quite fierce if they are breeding. Two females, less colorful, less fighting perhaps. Cichlids aren’t really schooling fish.

Ottocinclas, dwarf cories, kuhli loaches are all good choices if you’re looking specifically for a bottom feeder, and something to pick up the food the others miss.

I hope this gives you some ideas.

Ceez · Apr 18, 2024

Panaque and some hypostomus species of plecos require wood, bristlenose do not. That's not to say they don't need fiber because they do but wood is not a requirement to keep bristlenose. You can and most do feed vegetables like zucchini, cucumber, green beans etc etc to supplement their fiber needs. Not only that but it's cool to see a pleco(s) eating your offering out in the open.

Plecos in general are messy poop machines, I won't disagree with that but heck so are a lot of other fish. My opinion is if you're not willing to do the water changes, clean your filters, do your research and dedicate the time to keep your fish tank thriving just don't bother at all. It's not fair to the fish and eventually you're gonna have a tank you can't even see through the glass. Seen it many times and I've been guilty of it myself although I was a young kid.

Researching the fish you want and if certain species can coexist with others should go without saying. That's why I deferred on the cichlids. I know there are certain species that can live peacefully in a community environment but I personally never kept them in anything but cichlid only tanks. Also their requirements can be very different from other fish such as PH/hardness etc. There are in fact cichlids that can be kept and do quite well in a community setting

Bottom line is you should get the fish that you want with the caveat of doing your research and making sure that they can coexist between species and according to your specific water parameters.

Colin_T · Apr 18, 2024

What are the tank dimensions (length x width x height)?

What is the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH of your water supply (in numbers)?
This information can usually be obtained from your water supply company's website (Water Analysis Report) or by telephoning them. If they can't help you, take a glass full of tap water to the local pet shop and get them to test it for you. Write the results down (in numbers) when they do the tests. And ask them what the results are in (eg: ppm, dGH, or something else).

Depending on what the GH of your water is, will determine what fish you should keep.

Angelfish, discus, most tetras, most barbs, Bettas, gouramis, rasbora, Corydoras and small species of suckermouth catfish all occur in soft water (GH below 150ppm) and a pH below 7.0.

Livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), rainbowfish and goldfish occur in medium hard water with a GH around 200-250ppm and a pH above 7.0.

If you have very hard water (GH above 300ppm) then look at African Rift Lake cichlids, or use distilled or reverse osmosis water to reduce the GH and keep fishes from softer water.

---------------------

A pair of common bristlenose catfish will be fine in that tank (assuming the GH isn't too high) but will probably breed. Most pet shops will take young bristlenose, although not all of them pay you for them. If your local pet shop does take baby bristlenose, then get a pair if you want them to breed, otherwise just get one.

Chinese algae eaters grow to 12 inches are become highly territorial when mature. When they are adults, they regularly kill other fish in the tank. Siamese algae eaters are a much better choice and don't get anywhere near as big or aggressive.

Assuming the water is suitable (correct GH) for barbs, some barbs are small and peaceful, others are bigger and boisterous. Some like tiger barbs are fin nippers.

If you have 6 platies and they aren't males, you will have baby platies in the future. These will require space to grow so understocking the aquarium is a good idea when keeping common livebearers like platies, swordtails, guppies and mollies.

Some African Rift Lake cichlids (mainly Mbuna cichlids) do best in single sex tanks with lots of other cichlids. If one fish gets angry, the aggression is spread out over lots of other fish. If you have a couple of these fish then keep them in a single species tank. Other cichlids are kept differently and Apistogramma dwarf cichlids do best in pairs or groups consisting of one male and several females (but generally prs are best). Angelfish do best in groups of six or more but need big tanks.

Deeznuts · Apr 18, 2024

Ceez said:
You basically have a 50g tank.

As far as bristlenose go I would advise to do your best to get 2 females or 2 males and not one of each or you'll soon be infested with bristlenose fry. They breed like rabbits and unless you are ready to deal with fry and the massive bioload it's gonna put on your tank you could have a crash and lose all of your fish.

There are fish better suited for cleanup crew duties. Chinese algae eaters never stop, oto's are another and corys are super cool in schools and rummage through all of your substrate. Clown loaches will also dig through your substrate even though I wouldnt call them a cleanup crew persay and they are loads of fun with their antics.

50g tank will hold quite a few fish and what you want right now isn't that big of a deal. Heavily stocked tanks can be achieved through a regular maintenance routine and steadily increasing your bioload meaning not stocking your tank all at once.

Someone else can weigh in on cichlids, I haven't kept them since I was a kid.

As I’m from the U.K, litres makes more sense to me than gallons. Gallon was only used in the U.K. to measure wine back in the day, before my time lol.

I had no idea about bristlenose breeding like babies. It’s my first time considering them due to them remaining small and I didn’t want to make the error with a common pleco, like I’ve seen many do. In fact, in the past, when I was on gumtree looking for free weights, someone was giving away a pleco and it was in the most humane conditions. The water was almost black and it was living in its own poop. Side quest: I made the decision to take him from this person to a pet store. This pleco was like 30cm long in a 65cm tank.

I do have a breeders hatchery on a just incase purposes. The local fish shop is always happy to accept any accidental births. I’m not going through the whole trying to sell fish situation. Too much hassle lol

I will likely upgrade to an external filter, too. Buy my parents a better equipped filter. In such cases with my pets, I always tend to over compensate then to be just okay with their requirements.

Cory’s sounds like a good idea. What size school do they prefer?

As the tank is my parents (may as well be mine), I am choosing fish based on their preferences and what they’ve seen and our water’s natural parameters. They also like colourful fish. Clown loach looks lovely but I hear they’re not very hardy.

Colin_T · Apr 18, 2024

Minimum group for Corydoras is 6 or more (preferably 10+).

Clown loaches need to be kept in groups of at least 6 and they grow to 8-12 inches. They need a tank that is at least 8 feet long when they are mature. These fish should not be sold because most people can't house them correctly.

If the bristlenose catfish breed, you don't have to do anything. The male looks after the eggs and babies for the first few weeks, then the young swim off and live in the aquarium.

Breeding nets stress adult fish and if you want to use one, use it to hold the babies but not the adult females. Let the adult platies breed in the tank and then catch the fry in a small container and put them into the breeding net.

Deeznuts · Apr 18, 2024

Aqua67 said:
First and foremost, look into getting fish that will thrive in your type of water. If you have hard water, know your parameters so you can research the species you plan to acquire.

Yes, I was going to say I wouldn’t put 2 plecos in your tank. One is plenty and they are quite messy. I loved my L144 in my 46 gallon bowfront and I was sad when he time ended. They need driftwood to gnaw on and it aids their digestion. They scrape away at your driftwood and that makes a mess too. Depending on your piece, sometimes pieces fall apart and you need to get another piece. I don’t see much driftwood in your aquarium, and it is so pretty just the way it is. There are other good options with a smaller bioload though.

If you keep fish that like to hunt live food, especially micro hunters that scan the substrate, and have a mouth that can fit an amphipod, then you might appreciate the scud. They eat the same stuff shrimp do (biofilm, algae and detritus), plus they are a nutritious snack for any fish that catches one and they breed like crazy. You will always suck them out when you vacuum the gravel but you likely won’t crash the colony. They keep a tank clean and fish happy and possibly even in breeding condition. Some micropredator fish include badis badis,

Chinese algae eaters may do a good job (I don’t know, I’ve never kept them), but I hear they can be “aggressive” with tankmates and I’ve seen people on the “free fish rehoming” groups posting theirs up for new waters. One Siamese algae eater might be a good addition, but I don’t see much algae in your tank, and they have a good sized bioload.

Nerite snails are pretty and grow to a decent size, but they will likely lay little white eggs which will never hatch or produce babies as they need brackish water, but the little egg casings stick around a long time. With effort they can be removed, but there will be many to remove. I have Nerite in a couple of my tanks and I don’t mind the white dots. To me, it is just another natural feature of a ecosystem I try to balance.

Shrimp have a minuscule bioload and they are great at cleaning up. They can also become a snack for anything that can fit them in their mouths. Your tank would probably look beautiful with 25 yellow neocardina. They come in many color and pattern varieties, but they probably need softer water than you have.

I think danios don’t mind hard water, they’re quite active. Leopard danios are pretty, so are zebra danios.

You could keep one electric blue acara (my avatar), they are beautiful fish and interactive. You could also keep a lone angelfish but that would depend on your future hope for other fishes to keep. If you like the smaller fishes, it may be best to forego the cichlids, although I think a white angelfish would look stunning in that tank. I spend a lot of time watching my tank with a “centerpiece” angelfish. Perhaps a Koi colored Angelfish would go well in your aquarium. They would keep any over abundance of fry in your aquarium in check, most likely. They will devour shrimp too. I’m including a photo of my aquarium with one gorgeous angelfish, such an elegant fish to watch swim, very interactive with their human.

I think if you get a pair of cichlids you may be asking for trouble. They become quite fierce if they are breeding. Two females, less colorful, less fighting perhaps. Cichlids aren’t really schooling fish.

Ottocinclas, dwarf cories, kuhli loaches are all good choices if you’re looking specifically for a bottom feeder, and something to pick up the food the others miss.

I hope this gives you some ideas.

The small like bonsai tree in the tank growing out of the rocks has 3 seven inch long driftwood glued to it with the Anubis glued to the top. I don’t like the idea of the shredding the driftwood away though!
Could a bigger piece on the floor distract them from this?

I’ve never heard of this scud thing. You say they eat amphipods. Would that require me to offer them live shrimps? Doesn’t sound like the kindest thing ( cheapest option ) lol and other fish like to feed on them. Essentially, a small ecosystem concept. I’m not sure if they’re available in the U.K.

Yeah, I’ve looked into shrimp and the issue was the soft water. It would require buying R.O water. I’m not sure on the who soft water concept or reducing what I have naturally. I read something about boiling water but I’d rather keep it simpler for my parents.

Never really been a fan of danios. To me, they’re not very appealing to look at and my parents would agree. They do like the angelfish but in the past when they kept them, they never did well at all. I was young back then, so I have no idea about what the problem may have been. I think they also need higher water temperature, too. I might be mistaken.

The acara isn’t a common fish here but if they do okay solo, that may be a good idea, too.

If cichlids aren’t schooling fish. What if I kept just the one? Lol or is it best to keep cichlids by themselves.

Deeznuts · Apr 18, 2024

Ceez said:
Panaque and some hypostomus species of plecos require wood, bristlenose do not. That's not to say they don't need fiber because they do but wood is not a requirement to keep bristlenose. You can and most do feed vegetables like zucchini, cucumber, green beans etc etc to supplement their fiber needs. Not only that but it's cool to see a pleco(s) eating your offering out in the open.

Plecos in general are messy poop machines, I won't disagree with that but heck so are a lot of other fish. My opinion is if you're not willing to do the water changes, clean your filters, do your research and dedicate the time to keep your fish tank thriving just don't bother at all. It's not fair to the fish and eventually you're gonna have a tank you can't even see through the glass. Seen it many times and I've been guilty of it myself although I was a young kid.

Researching the fish you want and if certain species can coexist with others should go without saying. That's why I deferred on the cichlids. I know there are certain species that can live peacefully in a community environment but I personally never kept them in anything but cichlid only tanks. Also their requirements can be very different from other fish such as PH/hardness etc. There are in fact cichlids that can be kept and do quite well in a community setting

Bottom line is you should get the fish that you want with the caveat of doing your research and making sure that they can coexist between species and according to your specific water parameters.

Bristle-nose don’t need wood? Now I’m confused. They do or they don’t lol.

Yes, I researched into the parameters and the fish mentioned in my O.P align with them well.

I just don’t want to overstock my tank and that’s why I was looking for answers as a limit without causing issues to the system. Actually, I’m still not clear on that part haha.

I also agree with the maintenance part. It’s the whole part of keeping fish in my opinion or any animal. If you’re not willing or have the time, then don’t bother.

Colin_T · Apr 18, 2024

Danios need soft water or they become egg bound. They also need a cool period for the same reason.

Scuds are either amphipods or isopods (Gammarid species). They are scavengers that eat anything dead (fish food, dead plants, dead fish, etc). You don't need to feed them anything special and they just live in the tank.

How many cichlids depends entirely on what species you keep.

Deeznuts · Apr 18, 2024

Colin_T said:
What are the tank dimensions (length x width x height)?

What is the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH of your water supply (in numbers)?
This information can usually be obtained from your water supply company's website (Water Analysis Report) or by telephoning them. If they can't help you, take a glass full of tap water to the local pet shop and get them to test it for you. Write the results down (in numbers) when they do the tests. And ask them what the results are in (eg: ppm, dGH, or something else).

Depending on what the GH of your water is, will determine what fish you should keep.

Angelfish, discus, most tetras, most barbs, Bettas, gouramis, rasbora, Corydoras and small species of suckermouth catfish all occur in soft water (GH below 150ppm) and a pH below 7.0.

Livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), rainbowfish and goldfish occur in medium hard water with a GH around 200-250ppm and a pH above 7.0.

If you have very hard water (GH above 300ppm) then look at African Rift Lake cichlids, or use distilled or reverse osmosis water to reduce the GH and keep fishes from softer water.

---------------------

A pair of common bristlenose catfish will be fine in that tank (assuming the GH isn't too high) but will probably breed. Most pet shops will take young bristlenose, although not all of them pay you for them. If your local pet shop does take baby bristlenose, then get a pair if you want them to breed, otherwise just get one.

Chinese algae eaters grow to 12 inches are become highly territorial when mature. When they are adults, they regularly kill other fish in the tank. Siamese algae eaters are a much better choice and don't get anywhere near as big or aggressive.

Assuming the water is suitable (correct GH) for barbs, some barbs are small and peaceful, others are bigger and boisterous. Some like tiger barbs are fin nippers.

If you have 6 platies and they aren't males, you will have baby platies in the future. These will require space to grow so understocking the aquarium is a good idea when keeping common livebearers like platies, swordtails, guppies and mollies.

Some African Rift Lake cichlids (mainly Mbuna cichlids) do best in single sex tanks with lots of other cichlids. If one fish gets angry, the aggression is spread out over lots of other fish. If you have a couple of these fish then keep them in a single species tank. Other cichlids are kept differently and Apistogramma dwarf cichlids do best in pairs or groups consisting of one male and several females (but generally prs are best). Angelfish do best in groups of six or more but need big tanks.

My tank dimensions.

The pH is around 7-7.5 naturally and GH is on the higher end when I gave the numbers to my local fish shop prior to considering a tank, they did suggest barbs. So, my assumption is that they suggested fish based on the water hardness in the area as they’re a five-minute drive away. You know how fish shops are though, they’ve been doing it for so long, their feedback tends to be brushed over and condescending. As if I’m supposed to be an expert, too. It’s why I’ve asked on here because you don’t get treated like an idiot.

I will find do as you advised and take the water to the shop and ask them, until I at least invest in the JBL Master test kit.

My parents won’t buy anything without my say-so either. So, they can hold out until I’m visiting again.

So, avoid Chinese algae eaters. I don’t want any huge fish in there. The Siamese algae eater sounds like a reasonable choice to me. How many?

I asked for 4 females and 2 males platys but the blind tool at the fish shop gave me 3 males and 3 females!. The one male platys bullies the other two but the tanks plenty big enough for them to spend their time, so I’m not overly concerned too much right now. I assume they’d help keep the population of platy down and eat the ones that aren’t there’s? I’m not too sure though.

Apistogramma dwarf cichlid. These were the two I was debating. Male and female. There’s a specialist online that lives near by my home and they have some really nice breeds.

https://simstropicalfish.co.uk/

They sell them as a pair, too.

I think I’ve covered everything.

Lcc86 · Apr 18, 2024

If you have naturally hard water cories wouldn't be the best choice as they need soft water, when you say you have naturally hard water do you know what the parameters are? You can check your utility company's website to find out. Side note, I'd always recommend testing your hardness yourself anyway as my utility company's website said mine was sort of in the middle so I bought fish based on that, but when I tested it myself it's much much harder than they said so now I have to buy RO water to bring the hardness down to suit the fish I have. When you live in a first floor flat it's not much fun lugging 2 25 litre bottles of water up the stairs for water changes!

Colin_T · Apr 18, 2024

Deeznuts said:
So, avoid Chinese algae eaters. I don’t want any huge fish in there. The Siamese algae eater sounds like a reasonable choice to me. How many?

4-6 of them. There is another fish that looks very similar to them. It's commonly named the flying fox. The fly fox has colour in its fins, whereas the Siamese algae eater has clear fins. Make sure you get fish with clear fins because the flying fox can get agro when mature. They both grow to a similar size (4-5 inches) but the Siamese algae eater is much more peaceful. They both jump. You have a hood on the tank so it should be ok.

Deeznuts said:
I asked for 4 females and 2 males platys but the blind tool at the fish shop gave me 3 males and 3 females!. The one male platys bullies the other two but the tanks plenty big enough for them to spend their time, so I’m not overly concerned too much right now. I assume they’d help keep the population of platy down and eat the ones that aren’t there’s? I’m not too sure though.

Platies don't normally eat their young unless they are hungry.

Deeznuts said:
Apistogramma dwarf cichlid. These were the two I was debating. Male and female. There’s a specialist online that lives near by my home and they have some really nice breeds.

https://simstropicalfish.co.uk/

Which Apistogrammas were you looking at?
Apistogramma cacatuoides is the easiest to keep. They breed and look after the eggs and young. They do need water with a GH below 150ppm for the A. cacatuoides. Most of the other Apistogrammas need water with a GH below 100ppm. The A. cacatuoides have been captive bred for years and are a bit more tolerant of harder water compared to the others.

If you have Apistogrammas, it's probably best to avoid the Siamese Algae eaters because they all hang out near the bottom of the tank and the algae eaters might stress the cichlids when they are breeding.

Ceez · Apr 18, 2024

Deeznuts said:
Bristle-nose don’t need wood? Now I’m confused. They do or they don’t lol.

Yes, I researched into the parameters and the fish mentioned in my O.P align with them well.

I just don’t want to overstock my tank and that’s why I was looking for answers as a limit without causing issues to the system. Actually, I’m still not clear on that part haha.

I also agree with the maintenance part. It’s the whole part of keeping fish in my opinion or any animal. If you’re not willing or have the time, then don’t bother.

They don't need wood, they need fiber. Fiber can be supplemented by feeding veggies that I listed once or twice a week which will help their digestion. Wood is always good but it's not necessary for bristlenose.

Essjay · Apr 18, 2024

What are the actual numbers for hardness, and how did you test it? If you used strips, be aware that some don't measure higher than 180 ppm/10 dH so if water reads as this hardness it could be anything above that.

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