64gal tank stocking

Hi,

Have recently acquired a 64gal (120 long x 50 high x 40 wide). It's currently undergoing repairs (for those on the cracked tank thread, it's that one) however if (big if) it ends up holding water really well I have a few ideas for tanks stockings.

My dream setup would be-
1 Angel (wild-type looking or blue-sheened wild-type)
20+ neon tetras
1 or more pearl gourami's
I need to put in existing corydoras (they're the reason I got the tank in the first place, I needed space for more of them) which are 1 false julii, 2 pygmies and 3 peppers (I know, its wrong and bad, and that's the whole reason I got the tank) and will be getting them more for company.

However... there are some problems with that...

1. Angelfish are known for eating neons. I have read that if you let the neons get big and established, and then add a baby angel and let it grow up with them, it'll work. Anyone had success with this method?
2. I picked 1 angel because apparently if you have more than one, they get more aggressive, especially if it's a pair, but will it get lonely?
3. I also want something weird/exotic/out of the ordinary, as these are all 'generic aquarium fish' (maybe not the pearls, but still). I was thinking upside-down catfish, but apparently they can get aggressive and need a school, so guess not. Any other suggestions? Nothing super high maintenance though.
4. I also am moving everything out of my one tank (10 gal) but don't want to throw it out ever due to sentimental reasons. I was thinking maybe a sparkling gourami tank. I had one sparkling gourami previously, but only had it for a year until one day with no other symptoms beforehand it was just dead in the morning. No other fish in the tank had any symptoms, just dead. Fish store guy said old age, but I have no trust for fish-store guys, so blamed myself. Am willing to try again though. Any other 10gal suggestions?
5. Will the pearl get lonely?

Hello! ill be keeping an eye on this thread, as I too have just stocked my 75 with a community setting in mind. I have 4 angels, and 12 Neons, so I'm interested in whether or not the angels will make them into snacks. I've done some research into the subject, but have seem to found answers both ways.

Cheers!

I'm new into the entire fish world, but I have 2 Angels and 5 Neon's. There have been no attempts on the Neon's by either Angel. I'm actually on my third Angel since we lost one recently due to what I believe was a severe bacterial infection from being egg bound. I do notice that our original Angel does like having a companion after it establishes itself with the new one put in.

First, you do not want to combine cichlids and gourami, they are too much alike territorially.

Angelfish are shoaling fish, so why would one keep them different? They need a group, but this has problems should a pair form. They should not be combined with linear fish; initially all may be well, but when the angels get close to mature size the linear fish are a nice treat, especially if they begin to annoy the angelfish. The point is, there is always a serious risk, and you never know how lucky (or unlucky) you might be.

Byron said:

First, you do not want to combine cichlids and gourami, they are too much alike territorially.

Angelfish are shoaling fish, so why would one keep them different? They need a group, but this has problems should a pair form. They should not be combined with linear fish; initially all may be well, but when the angels get close to mature size the linear fish are a nice treat, especially if they begin to annoy the angelfish. The point is, there is always a serious risk, and you never know how lucky (or unlucky) you might be.

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Thats interesting about the Angels and Gourami. I have 2 Angel and 4 Gourami. Been that way a while and no issue, but my tank was stocked more by my wifes "oh, i like that one" vs what works. I've been fortunate so far, but have already told her no more fish until others die off and can get whats right for the overall tank.

Byron said:

First, you do not want to combine cichlids and gourami, they are too much alike territorially.

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All gourami? From what I've heard, pearls are pretty chill, so would it just be the angel picking on it?

Byron said:

Angelfish are shoaling fish, so why would one keep them different? They need a group, but this has problems should a pair form.

Click to expand...

So, do I keep them together, or separate? I've heard people keeping them by them selves with success, but if they don't like it I won't do it...

All in all it sounds like angels wouldn't be very happy in that tank

Any other suggestions of cool fish I could put in there? I want a centerpiece fish...

PygmyPepperJulli said:

All gourami? From what I've heard, pearls are pretty chill, so would it just be the angel picking on it?

So, do I keep them together, or separate? I've heard people keeping them by them selves with success, but if they don't like it I won't do it...

All in all it sounds like angels wouldn't be very happy in that tank

Any other suggestions of cool fish I could put in there? I want a centerpiece fish...

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Pearls can be good/bad, according to members on TFF. As a basic condition, gourami and cichlids should not be together, and there should be only one species of either. This paractice provides what the fish "expect" in their habitats. Now, having said this, it is possible to combine some of the very small gourami. I had pygmy sparkling, chocolate and Eyespot (Parasphaerichthys ocellatus) together for several years. But these are very small, and the tank was a 4-foot heavily planted 70g, and I mean really heavily planted. When someone here asks the question, I usually have no way of knowing their experience with this or that fish, so I assume for the sake of the fish that it is basic. It would be one thing for me with a room full of tanks to combine two species and then separate them when something happened, but it is not OK to leave two species together when either one is causing problems for the other. Euthanizing a fish is not easy, and it is always wise to know the fish species and avoid problems. Stress from such issues is directly responsible for over 90% of all aquarium fish disease. We put the fish in the wrong environment, and then start crying "it's a bully," but it is not the fish's fault it is in the wrong environment.

I agree on all counts that angelfish are not suited here. I would increase the Pearl Gouyrami, in a group of five or seven this is a beauty. Get two males (with three females) or three males with four or five females. And very heavy surface plants, like Water Sprite.

All right, I'm reviving it...

So, how does this stocking sound? I wanted to change it (only slightly... and am still looking for a centerpiece/slightly weird or out of the ordinary fish)

These are a must-
x20 neon tetra
This is going to sound bad, don't worry I'm increasing it over time, this is just what's going in AT THE MOMENT and I will increase it (These are just the ones in current tank)
x2 pygmy corydoras (will be increased to 7 ASAP and will try to breed them in the 10gal)
x3 pepper corydoras (read above)
x1 False Julii corydoras (will try to increase or maybe just rehome, depends)

These are suggestions (feel free to reject, only ideas)-
x6+ sparkling gourami (becuase why not?)
x3 pearl gourami (1 M 2 F if possible) (would this work? Would them and the sparklers get along or would the pearls eat them?
MAYBE a german ram? (As something totally different). Or a pair, if they get lonely
or a blue acara. Is huge compared to the other sizes though, so maybe not.

Maybe a Siamese Algae Eater as a cleanup crew, however will probably just use low grade wild-type shrimp (I don't believe in red shrimp) or snails.

Anything else weird/centerpiece/cool or rejection of these ideas?
TIA!


PPJ

I don't know about the gourami etc but you ideally want bigger groups of cories, about 10 of each, for them to thrive. I know in other threads you've mentioned them being expensive where you are but ideally that's what I would do first, massively increas those numbers and maybe forget the tetras altogether, and then think about a centrepiece later on.

Thanks for the quick reply.

Only increasing tetras because I have 10 in a smaller tank and know that the bigger school, the better, and they are affordable enough for me to have a few. Unless there's another reason you think I should get rid of them? As for the cories, I defiantly know I need to increase them, and that was my priority to do that before buying any of the centerpiece fish (or with the centerpiece fish, as I have found a place that does them cheaper however I have to pay for shipping if under $200). I found a place that does them for a third of the price ($6 instead of $20 per fish), however I do have some question regarding them.

I've heard conflicting opinions about cories, but am just going to ask again- While I know more is always (always) better, what is your opinion about mixing them? Could have, say, 7 in each school giving you a total of 21 cories (or more likely 14, as I'm probably going to rehome the one lonely false julii), which will make them more secure than say one school of six, or do you have to religiously have 10+ in each school? Because if so (10+ per school), I might just rehome/sell the peppers as well and end up just having pygmies. And would it be ok to maybe start with 5 each, try to breed them, and if they absolutely refuse to breed then just give up and buy more?

I'm only trying to do what's best for the fish, but I'm also trying to be real- I'll probably get some spite for this comment, but we're never going to fully replicate their natural environment- it's a glass box, it'll never have hundreds of them together in a huge river somewhere, and therefore while it is best to do what you can, it'll always not be excellent, or anything like the wild. And I know, I'd be depriving them of their environment and freedom and all that, but once again, just being real. Just sayn.

PygmyPepperJulli said:

Thanks for the quick reply.

Only increasing tetras because I have 10 in a smaller tank and know that the bigger school, the better, and they are affordable enough for me to have a few. Unless there's another reason you think I should get rid of them? As for the cories, I defiantly know I need to increase them, and that was my priority to do that before buying any of the centerpiece fish (or with the centerpiece fish, as I have found a place that does them cheaper however I have to pay for shipping if under $200). I found a place that does them for a third of the price ($6 instead of $20 per fish), however I do have some question regarding them.

I've heard conflicting opinions about cories, but am just going to ask again- While I know more is always (always) better, what is your opinion about mixing them? Could have, say, 7 in each school giving you a total of 21 cories (or more likely 14, as I'm probably going to rehome the one lonely false julii), which will make them more secure than say one school of six, or do you have to religiously have 10+ in each school? Because if so (10+ per school), I might just rehome/sell the peppers as well and end up just having pygmies. And would it be ok to maybe start with 5 each, try to breed them, and if they absolutely refuse to breed then just give up and buy more?

I'm only trying to do what's best for the fish, but I'm also trying to be real- I'll probably get some spite for this comment, but we're never going to fully replicate their natural environment- it's a glass box, it'll never have hundreds of them together in a huge river somewhere, and therefore while it is best to do what you can, it'll always not be excellent, or anything like the wild. And I know, I'd be depriving them of their environment and freedom and all that, but once again, just being real. Just sayn.

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Ah I forgot you already had the tetra, I thought you were starting from scratch.

I'm not an expert by any means compared to others on here, I've got 2 mixed groups of cories and they interact together all the time. I've lost a couple so I'm not at "ideal" numbers but not far off, could probably do with increasing them too.

I also have a dozen pygmies and they interact with the bigger cories too although not to the same extent. What I would say is that you will enjoy them more if you can get a bigger as they'll act more naturally in a bigger group. Pygmies are especially interesting to watch IMO (mine also swim with my frogs lol) but I'm probably biased in that respect! And yes of course we can't ever truly replicate nature but I guess it's about getting as close as we can and also enjoying the fish acting "naturally".

When I only had 3 cories they hid all the time and I'll be honest I thought they were a bit boring. Since I've researched more and added more, they're out all the time so I get to enjoy them more and they (hopefully) enjoy life more too.

Are you still going for a paludarium style look?

Bolivians might make more sense in terms of a temperature match with corydoras and male Bolivians can be kept on their own. But, bear in mind, you would always been taking a risk with any cichlid and corydoras Even a single cichlid. If they get territorial they will stress the corydoras potentially. Small cichlids can look cute in the shop, but their natural instincts can take over within a few hours once you get them home!!

I personally would definitely not have more than 1 sex of a cichlid with corydoras, not if you want to prioritise the corydoras natural behaviour and keep them in a good life, as breeding cichlids will dominate a part of the tank, especially on the shop floor where Corydoras operate!

Alright, thanks guys

AJ, following what you said probably won’t get a cichlid. They’ve always sacred me a bit… it was just one of those random ‘what if’ ideas and wasn’t particularly set on getting one, so thanks for confirming it wouldn’t work

Lcc, yep, still going for the riparian paludarium look (haven’t quite decided how that look is going to look yet, but the Christmas break is good for that . I love my pygmies and despite there only being two of them they seem pretty happy, and always either school with the peppers, the neons (which I find interesting) or snuffle off doing their own thing. That’s not to say they don’t need more friends- just an observation. I think I’ll definetaly expand the group to start with, probably to seven each and maybe sell/rehome the fslse julii as they are especially expensive to buy a new school for (which is sad, he was my fave) or see how he goes with the new Cories and buy him 1/2 friends (he had one before, still not enough but they were best buds, except he got some weird infection on the brain or something from lfs and died a month or so later).

this is what it’s sort of looking like right now- needs work but can’t decide if going for a total Blackwater vibes or if I hate tannins and doing a proper clear water planted tank (I love the Blackwater but it really doesn’t go with the rest of the room… sigh) It doesn’t have a light yet, so keep that in mind. The source of light in pic is light I picked up and dangles over from the other tank. Also, the fish are green swordtails from my pond, which while are meant to have softwater these were from the local creek (very soft water) and are second or third generation (they’re only temporary, something to please a certain member of my household). And by the looks of it, the female in the tank is pregnant already…
There’s meant to be a gudgeon in there as well, but it totally vanished. Couldn’t have been eaten (it was much bigger) and hasn’t jumped (no body) but having ripped apart the tank to move rocks around a few times I’m almost certain it’s not there…

I think we have preferences in common. You are looking for a bit of character in the tank. Rams also appeal very much to me. Their slow, deliberate movements, and that's the same for the lot of cichlids. I find (from a tank behaviour) perspective it compliments the more random behaviour of fish like corydoras and neons. Maybe that's also why gourami appeals to you? Something different isn't it?

Is the gourami dream still alive? You have the space for it. 64 gallons is good. I get confused. Is there is Aussie gallons, like United States of America gallons? We go by litres in the UK. I wish everybody would just speak the Kings English. We expect the world to adapt for us, rather than us adapt to the world

I watched this a while back, it's quite long but a really cool paludarium idea (although he always just chucks fish straight in once he's done, I suppose when you're a youtuber you can't do fishless cycles!).