Any strong opinions on the ethics of long-fin varieties of fish?

I've never really loved the look of long fins on cories, but admit to being quite taken with long fin varieties of pleco and rosey barbs. But given that longer fins naturally create more drag when a fish swims, is it really fair and ethical to breed long fins into species that wouldn't be long finned in the wild?

I think is much more humane and ethical than balloon fish, glowfish, or even some betta splendens, since the other fishes long fins are more moderate but I believe it’s still not ideal

JuiceBox52 said:

I think is much more humane and ethical than balloon fish, glowfish, or even some betta splendens, since the other fishes long fins are more moderate but I believe it’s still not ideal

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Oh for sure! I don't mean it's the same as breeding deformities like balloon fish- I really don't like those or think that it's ethical! But I'm more torn on the long fins issue. Part of me doesn't like it, but that longfin albino pleco would look awesome flitting around my tank like a ghost!

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

I've never really loved the look of long fins on cories, but admit to being quite taken with long fin varieties of pleco and rosey barbs. But given that longer fins naturally create more drag when a fish swims, is it really fair and ethical to breed long fins into species that wouldn't be long finned in the wild?

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I think there's a balance. I do like the look at times, BUT I don't like what the fish has to experience... Creates a drag as you say that drains the fish. Especially in bettas.
If I was to try and breed "long-finned" fish, I'd try to make it so the fins don't get TOO big and create lots of issues for the fish.
Do I think it's a HUGE problem? No. But I do think people can go too far with the "long fins" on fish. It should be kept to a minimum...

Oh dang, I was writing this for way too long cause this thread was empty when I started writing that
I got distracted too many times obviously

Rocky998 said:

I think there's a balance. I do like the look BUT I don't like what the fish has to experience... Creates a drag as you say that drains the fish. Especially in bettas.
If I was to try and breed "long-finned" fish, I'd try to make it so the fins don't get TOO big and create lots of issues for the fish.
Do I think it's a HUGE problem? No. But I do think people can go too far with the "long fins" on fish. It should be kept to a minimum...

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It's a bigger question, deeper.

For a purely ornamental fish approach, long fins are cool. The goal is to have pretty fish. if you find long fin mutations pretty (I don't), it seems fine to me.

If we cross the line to what many countries justifiably call cruelty breeding - balloon shapes, blood parrot mouths - then I can see why those jurisdictions ban the sales. That's taking the fancy breeding ideas to a brutal commercial extreme. But overly large fins? You see if the fish seems able to swim freely, and if it can't, I think you are making a bad choice if you buy it.

If you are interested in how fish work in nature and you want to design tanks based on habitat for them, then there's no place for cultivated mutations. I have had balloonish mutations from wild fish, and maybe I could be rich if I had bred them and created a new product with them. I didn't. I have had xanthic killies show up, and didn't breed the line. I even had an albino Monterey Platy (Xiphophorus couchianus) once, a then extinct or close to it in nature fish.

That made me think. If I had set a line of albinos, they would not have survived in nature due to predation. I didn't want to be a minor god in the history of the species, so I took pictures and left them unbred. No more showed up in subsequent generations. I eventually shared out the group and stopped keeping them.

I could have made money beyond selling the photos, but I let the natural breeding process in a large group in a large tank continue and moved on. Personal choice, since aquariums are unnatural to begin with. But what if my line had been the last of the species, and I had consciously modified it to make it prettier, by cultivating a natural variation?

I once bought an albino pair of a Cichlid that is very hard to find. My plan was to see if the fry would be all albino or not. About half of them had standard colouration and eyes, and I raised them all up. Once they were adults, I realized they were not the species they were supposed to be according to the seller, but were a very similar common fish. People have to avoid doing those things.

There is no yes no answer. It really depends on why you keep fish, a really fundamental question we usually don't ask ourselves. What do you like? If it's because you like long finned fish, hey, knock yourself out. Maybe you admire the ingenuity of linebreeders. Then, of course you encourage mutations. Linebreeders have great skills and organization I'll never have, and that has to be respected. If you don't like "fancy fish", and are a wild type purist like me, don't buy them. Just don't sell me juveniles and after, tell me you had selected for a mutation you liked. Be open and clear and realize not everyone shares your interests. Your linebred fish aren't better than my wilds, and vice versa. Well, I say that, but I don't believe it deep down!

Long fins to me are simply not natural.
I like my tanks to be as close to nature as possible, so no long fins for me.

It just doesnt look right...

connorlindeman said:

Long fins to me are simply not natural.
I like my tanks to be as close to nature as possible, so no long fins for me.
View attachment 312337
It just doesnt look right...

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Certain species dont look good with long fins... Neon Tetras being one of them lol

Remember that episode of MASH where Hawkeye and BJ take Radar into the Officers Club and they pin the Captains bars on him ? That old Major jumps him and Hawkeye explains that they are noting reaction to a new rank - Corporal Captain . The old Major says “ I don’t like it , no , I don’t like it one bit “.
That’s me. I don’t like long fins. I don’t like them one bit.

Back in the fold said:

Remember that episode of MASH where Hawkeye and BJ take Radar into the Officers Club and they pin the Captains bars on him ? That old Major jumps him and Hawkeye explains that they are noting reaction to a new rank - Corporal Captain . The old Major says “ I don’t like it , no , I don’t like it one bit “.
That’s me. I don’t like long fins. I don’t like them one bit.

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I loved that episode

Rocky998 said:

I loved that episode

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Classic. Radar is nervous being in there anyway and when that Major says that Radar blanches and says weakly “ he don’t like it “.

connorlindeman said:

Long fins to me are simply not natural.
I like my tanks to be as close to nature as possible, so no long fins for me.
View attachment 312337
It just doesnt look right...

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Exactly. Mother Nature did a wonderful thing and still humans have the need to change these awesome creatures cause they like them differently.

It's been a long time since I saw a MASH episode. I think I was still a young man with long filaments descending from my head.

Again though, who cares what I like? You'd all be listening to punk rock with unclean lyrics and dub reggae with 70s technology if my opinions mattered. Cultivated long finned mutations are popular, and if you like them and it suits the set up you want, I doubt it harms the fish (except for some really over the top Bettas and guppies). I think I am the heart and soul of good taste in this world, but my wife questions my fashion choices and may have a point.

If I visit you and look into a tank of longfinned whatevers, sure, I will sigh and roll my eyes as secretly as I can. We all judge according to our tastes. But you'd all do the same if you came here and saw how many largely colourless fish I enjoy keeping. Right and wrong exist in ethics, for sure. But this isn't ethics, it's taste.

I am not into any form of human meddling that changes what comes naturally into something that doesn't.

Why change the beauty, elegance and poise that nature already gives us?

No-one truly 100% knows the short and longterm effect on the physiology, nor does anyone truly 100% knows if such unnatural changes cause pain and other welfare issues

If you feed the bank account of those who would genetically or otherwise mutate perfectly good species into the unnatural, then you provide the marketplace for that to happen.

If you do not purchase, then you are going some way towards stopping an unneccessary and frequently cruel trade.

Natural is beautiful.

No need to change what is already beautiful.

connorlindeman said:

Long fins to me are simply not natural.
I like my tanks to be as close to nature as possible, so no long fins for me.
View attachment 312337
It just doesnt look right...

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I agree especially when it comes to naturally speedy, darting, schooling fish like neons/danios etc. They would really feel the drag, and affect their natural movements.

I really don't like the look of cories with long fins either, it just looks wrong.

I'm sure those long fins at the sides must get annoying to the fish. I don't like the really long fins on bettas and the huge fins on some guppies, you really see the weight on them bothering the males when they get older and struggle to swim dragging a huge tail.

But years ago I saw someone who made a natural looking but Lord of the Rings themed tank. Subtle, like having black widow tetra as nazguls, built a hobbit hole into a mossy cave hardscape, kind of thing. And they had a snow white longfin bristlenose as Gandolf the white, and it was really beautiful! So I kinda fell in love with them then.

And look at this fish I could have!

Part of me really doesn't like the mutations, especially if they may negatively affect the fish, which is why I started this thread I think. I'm really conflicted about it. I'd never buy a "balloon" or other deformed fish. But since plecos more kinda mosey around rather than swim about, and they still seem agile when they want to be, I'm sorely tempted to get one! But since I'm conflicted about the long fins, I really do appreciate hearing what you guys think!
This one I wouldn't attempt to breed, just kinda want to own one. I do have two L181 plecos I'd quite like to breed (although it seems I have two females, and his current stock of L181 are too young to sex) but much as I love my 181s, they hide and blend so well into the dark bogwood I have in the tank that I feel lucky when I see them! Having a more visible pleco would be nice!