Aspirations for a 29gal tall.

Hello, as I have stated in previous posts, I have a 29 gallon tall (30x12x18''). It was given to me buy someone downsizing, and I was very new to the fish keeping hobby at the time, so I didn't really get to customize it to my own tastes.
Now though, with a bit more experience after 2 years under my belt, I would like to give it a make over. Here's a picture of what it looked like after being set up:


Here it is last year I think:


And here's what it looks like now:

As y'all can see, it is basically filled with a variety of cryptocoryne (if you can identify it's particular variety, feel free to tell me, as I have no clue.) I haven't added any plants or ferts to this tank whatsoever. I want to put in some dirt and cap it with a larger grain sand, or sand/small gravel mix. I want to thin out the plants, and add a variety of new plants (maybe some ludwigia, hornwort, and anubias). I'll keep the temp at about 78 Fahrenheit.
As for fish, I would prefer to keep the current inhabitants as it is hard to rehome in my area unless you just give them away for free. This includes 2 female BN Plecos, and 2 SAEs. I understand already that 2 SAEs don't always get along and fight for territory, but mine have done fine for the past two years, kind of schooling together like a couple.
I want to add some schoolers, and assuming that my LFS carries them, here are the ones I'm looking at: (Just one or 2 of the species, just to be clear, not all of them)

Ember Tetras
Galaxy Rasboras aka Celestial Pearl Danios
White Cloud Minnows
Harlequin Rasboras
Rummy nose Tetras
Cherry barbs

I was thinking either 15 of one species, or maybe 10 of two. If this is too ambitious please feel free to say so.
I also wanted bit of a center piece fish (not angels, I have tried them before and want to try new fish). Here are my ideas:

Peacock Gudgeons (1 male, 2 females)
Clown Killifish (again, three)
1 Honey Gourami
1 Bolivian Ram
or
1 male Apistogramma cacatuoides.

I've been trying to do my research on all of these fish, but sometime real learning and understanding can only be acquired by doing.
These fish appear to have similar enough water preferences, and I will keep them in mind going forward.

I really wanted some kuhlie loaches, but I figures that there's really no space for them. Maybe next time.
Please feel free to share your thoughts on this build. Advice for fish choosing is welcome.

Morganna said:

Clown Killifish (again, three)

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More the merrier with clown killis. They are also very very small so they wouldnt be much of a centerpiece.

Morganna said:

) I want to put in some dirt and cap it with a larger grain sand, or sand/small gravel mix.

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No need for dirt. Just use sand and roots tabs for root feeding plants.

I would agree, but root tabs are much more expensive than just a few pounds of dirt would be. And if the plants look like they would need more nourishment, then I would consider some root tabs.

Morganna said:

I would agree, but root tabs are much more expensive than just a few pounds of dirt would be.

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The dirt will produce ammonia for a short time and then stop. After that all you have is mud.

I plan to test the dirt in a smaller container (that is fishless, don't worry), and see how well it works. If it turns into mud that provides absolutely no nurishment, than I will succumb to the root tabs

Because I'm impatient on this build, I decided to just go ahead and do root tabs instead of dirt, that way it won't be in the back of my mind later on nagging me that some disaster might happen. I'll order my substrate soon, which I decided would be pool filter sand mixed with some small water softener gravel. I'll do the switch on the substrate, and see how these low tech plants adjust before getting more plants, the root tabs, and the new fish. Which, as far as fish go, I'm leaning toward 10-15 (depending on how many are available and how much per fish) Harlequin Rasboras and 1 Bolivian ram because it has a "big fish look" while still being smaller.

Good idea. I'll just offer a comment or two about the risks of dirt, so others will know too. There is no significant benefit of dirt over inert sand or fine gravel, nutritionally speaking. The only real benefit of dirt is the initial release of CO2 and ammonia from the breakdown of organics in the dirt. Depending upon the dirt, there really are no other nutrients, certainly not all of those plants require. These come from fish foods, but the amount obviously depends upon the fish load and feeding.

To avoid the initial serious risks, many soil advocates recommend a dry start, and then not adding any fish for six months. When I set up my fish tanks with live plants, using inert sand or gravel, I do not have any of these risks, and my fish can go in immediately.

Soil substrates are ineffective within one year, after which they need replacing. That is a lot of work. My sand or gravel substrate tanks ran for several years without any interference with the substrate. Substrate tabs for large rooted plants, liquid fertilizer for others, depending upon the plant species and numbers, was a much safer and easier method.

My substrate hasn't come in it yet, but I'm still super excited about getting to add some new fish in a few weeks!
Since I haven't gotten any fish yet, I figured I could still just talk out loud about the different options.
It's a dream of mine to one day own Kuhli loaches, but I didn't think I could have any in this 29 set up because I already have the 2 plecos and 2 SAEs. There are some things that simply can't be searched on a google search bar, and that's where personal experience and feedback from forums are awesome! Here are my list of hypothetical questions:
1. Are kuhlies possible with the 2 plecs and SAEs?
2. IF I rehomed the plecs and SAEs, how many kuhlies could I get for the 29 gallon tank?
3. If the plecs and saes are gone, and I have the kuhli loaches, would they get along with an apisto or bolivian ram (these are the two that I'm leaning toward for centerpiece)?

Okay, now I'm going to get complicated. I'd like to repeat the questions above, but switch the kuhlies for false julii corys.
All feedback is greatly appreciated!

Morganna said:

My substrate hasn't come in it yet, but I'm still super excited about getting to add some new fish in a few weeks!
Since I haven't gotten any fish yet, I figured I could still just talk out loud about the different options.
It's a dream of mine to one day own Kuhli loaches, but I didn't think I could have any in this 29 set up because I already have the 2 plecos and 2 SAEs. There are some things that simply can't be searched on a google search bar, and that's where personal experience and feedback from forums are awesome! Here are my list of hypothetical questions:
1. Are kuhlies possible with the 2 plecs and SAEs?
2. IF I rehomed the plecs and SAEs, how many kuhlies could I get for the 29 gallon tank?
3. If the plecs and saes are gone, and I have the kuhli loaches, would they get along with an apisto or bolivian ram (these are the two that I'm leaning toward for centerpiece)?

Okay, now I'm going to get complicated. I'd like to repeat the questions above, but switch the kuhlies for false julii corys.
All feedback is greatly appreciated!

Click to expand...

To answer your questions (in part anyway), we need to know what the substrate material will be.

On another issue...the SAE's should be re-homed; they are a shoaling fish that should have a group, they attain 5 inches, and at maturity have been known to be rather rough (aggressive) and other substrate fish will fall to this, as can some upper level fish. It all depends upon the individual fish, but one should assume they will be normal rather than the exception.

As for the plecs...I take it they are two female Bristlenose, so they should pose no problems...normally anyway. However, they must have real wood to graze (necessary for their digestive system, not as "food") and IU can't see if that is resolved.

In case you haven't realized, all fish so far named are lower level inhabitants, in the lower third to half of the aquarium. Any thoughts on fish for the upper half?

Byron said:

To answer your questions (in part anyway), we need to know what the substrate material will be.

On another issue...the SAE's should be re-homed; they are a shoaling fish that should have a group, they attain 5 inches, and at maturity have been known to be rather rough (aggressive) and other substrate fish will fall to this, as can some upper level fish. It all depends upon the individual fish, but one should assume they will be normal rather than the exception.

As for the plecs...I take it they are two female Bristlenose, so they should pose no problems...normally anyway. However, they must have real wood to graze (necessary for their digestive system, not as "food") and IU can't see if that is resolved.

In case you haven't realized, all fish so far named are lower level inhabitants, in the lower third to half of the aquarium. Any thoughts on fish for the upper half?

Click to expand...

I do already have wood in the tank for the plecs (and yes, I think they are both females seeing as they have no bristly mustaches), it just can't be seen because of all the plants.
The substrate is going to be pool filter sand and small gravel used for water softeners.
Yes, my SAE's are already 5 inches big. I had purchased them 2 years ago because the person who gave me the tank said they were awesome at keeping the algae under control (I was a very new fish keeper and was still on my first betta at the time and didn't know any better). To be clear, this is the same guy who told me that I didn't need dechlorinator because it would all evaporate off (which is true to an extent, I know that now). So, you know, I'm obviously still fixing some mistakes because of the way I was started off. I will see if I can rehome the two of them.

Are you talking about the fish mentioned in the previous post (kuhlies, juliis, the ram and apisto)? Or are you talking about my very first post, where I make a large list of possible fish?

Morganna said:

My substrate hasn't come in it yet, but I'm still super excited about getting to add some new fish in a few weeks!
Since I haven't gotten any fish yet, I figured I could still just talk out loud about the different options.
It's a dream of mine to one day own Kuhli loaches, but I didn't think I could have any in this 29 set up because I already have the 2 plecos and 2 SAEs. There are some things that simply can't be searched on a google search bar, and that's where personal experience and feedback from forums are awesome! Here are my list of hypothetical questions:
1. Are kuhlies possible with the 2 plecs and SAEs?
2. IF I rehomed the plecs and SAEs, how many kuhlies could I get for the 29 gallon tank?
3. If the plecs and saes are gone, and I have the kuhli loaches, would they get along with an apisto or bolivian ram (these are the two that I'm leaning toward for centerpiece)?

Okay, now I'm going to get complicated. I'd like to repeat the questions above, but switch the kuhlies for false julii corys.
All feedback is greatly appreciated!

Click to expand...

I do agree with the gentleman about rehoming the SAE. Cory and kuhlies don't matter which one they will be fine with the fish you have as long as there is no sharp gravel. At least 6 for both but more the merrier you might be able to do both in your tank. Pygmy are another good Cory get around 12 of them there lovely fish. Another good fish is freshwater dwarf neon goby there lovely fish keep at least 6 of them. And there very good for black beard algae

Morganna said:

I do already have wood in the tank for the plecs (and yes, I think they are both females seeing as they have no bristly mustaches), it just can't be seen because of all the plants.
The substrate is going to be pool filter sand and small gravel used for water softeners.
Yes, my SAE's are already 5 inches big. I had purchased them 2 years ago because the person who gave me the tank said they were awesome at keeping the algae under control (I was a very new fish keeper and was still on my first betta at the time and didn't know any better). To be clear, this is the same guy who told me that I didn't need dechlorinator because it would all evaporate off (which is true to an extent, I know that now). So, you know, I'm obviously still fixing some mistakes because of the way I was started off. I will see if I can rehome the two of them.

Are you talking about the fish mentioned in the previous post (kuhlies, juliis, the ram and apisto)? Or are you talking about my very first post, where I make a large list of possible fish?

Click to expand...

I was thinking the fish in post #8, sorry for confusing. Also, we should have the parameters (GH and pH here).

pool filter sand is usually white, and that should be avoided. You could have play sand, as you're in the USA you should be able to get Quikrete Play Sand at Home Depot or Lowe's or similar, it comes in buff and dark grey, either are good quality. Or an inert aquarium river sand. Corys will definitely be stressed over white.

Coryking said:

I do agree with the gentleman about rehoming the SAE. Cory and kuhlies don't matter which one they will be fine with the fish you have as long as there is no sharp gravel. At least 6 for both but more the merrier you might be able to do both in your tank. Pygmy are another good Cory get around 12 of them there lovely fish. Another good fish is freshwater dwarf neon goby there lovely fish keep at least 6 of them. And there very good for black beard algae

Click to expand...

Awesome! I considered pygmies (they are so cute!), but figured I could always put them in my 10 gal one day when my betta moves out. But now I can reconsider them for this tank!

Byron said:

I was thinking the fish in post #8, sorry for confusing. Also, we should have the parameters (GH and pH here).

pool filter sand is usually white, and that should be avoided. You could have play sand, as you're in the USA you should be able to get Quikrete Play Sand at Home Depot or Lowe's or similar, it comes in buff and dark grey, either are good quality. Or an inert aquarium river sand. Corys will definitely be stressed over white.

Click to expand...

I'll post the parems once I have swapped the substrate, make sure nothing's really changed or anything. Usually though, my ph likes to hang at 6. (can't remember my gh and don't feel like checking).
It's so hard for me to find an inert aquarium sand that fits my tight budget right now, which is why I went with the pool filter sand. I considered play sand, but saw a video on yt where it was being used and it took them forever to rinse it clean. Have you done play sand, and was your experience with the cleanliness different?

Morganna said:

Awesome! I considered pygmies (they are so cute!), but figured I could always put them in my 10 gal one day when my betta moves out. But now I can reconsider them for this tank!


I'll post the parems once I have swapped the substrate, make sure nothing's really changed or anything. Usually though, my ph likes to hang at 6. (can't remember my gh and don't feel like checking).
It's so hard for me to find an inert aquarium sand that fits my tight budget right now, which is why I went with the pool filter sand. I considered play sand, but saw a video on yt where it was being used and it took them forever to rinse it clean. Have you done play sand, and was your experience with the cleanliness different?

Click to expand...

I changed all my tanks (a fishroom) over to play sand about 8-9 years ago, and never regretted. Yes, it was "dirty," but that is just dirt and harmless so I rinsed each batch about 5 times and left it at that. The tanks cleared normally in a day, maybe less. But the real value were the fish--I won't be so ignorant as to say the cories and loaches were "happy," that is impossible to tell as I can't talk to them to ask them--but they began behaving naturally (cories upending themselves to the eyes to root into the sand which they expel via the gill slits, something that is impossible with any gravel) and I never had issues with bacteria or roughness contributing to barbel degeneration, bacteria is a real concern with any gravel. I did have this once with a plant substrate, before I learned these cannot be used with cories or any substrate fish.

Roughness is another thing with pool filter sand. While it may feel smooth, it is not, because of how it is processed. Play Sand made by Quikrete is the most finely refined industrial sand on the market. Given the very low cost of a 25kg (50 lb) bag of Quikrete Play Sand (prob $4-6 in the US) it is well worth acquiring.

The GH of your source water is all we need to know. This should be on the website of the water authority.

All that makes sense. Wish I knew that before the fifty pounds of pool sand arrived yesterday.
(I wouldn't have ordered that much, believe me, but that was the only size it came in)!