What is affecting my sorority sisters??

I have a very very peaceful, all female sorority, 4 of the bettas are sisters. i had a fith fish from the same spawn but she died of a weird ailment, inactivity and her fins started disappearing. she also had a weird deformity in her face, almost where it looked sunkin in under her chin, and her gills were starting to flare. WELL two more girls from the same spawn are currently dying from the disease/sickness the first girl passed from, and the third is starting to show early symptoms as well. which means 4/5 of the sisters have died/are showing signs of this same illness. I'm wondering if its genetic, or if someone on here can identify what this is? because it has only affected the sisters. i also have 4 other females and a few other random fish in this tank and none of them are showing any signs of distress or illness.

i attatched a photo of one of them, see how her top fin is starting to almost rot away and only a few spines are poking up?? im so confused bc of all the bettas ive ever owned, i havent seen anything like this.

parameters are 0 ammonia 0 nitrites 5 nitrates. heated to 78°. PH is around 7. i do weekly 30% water changes and test my water very frequently. i have 9 tanks currently and ive never seen anything like this. i feed frozen and live food only

also should mention this is a very heavily planted, filtered, 20g long

I have no idea but @Colin_T or @emeraldking may know.

I'm sorry this happened to your fish. It very well could be a genetic disease if they're all related and showing the same symptoms.
I would definitely keep up with large daily water changes until you know exactly what is going on.

thank you @Rocky998 yea ive seen @Colin_T and @emeraldking mentioned a lot in other posts, i'm newer so im guessing they know a lot. hopefully they can help. and thank you!

It's either bacterial or protozoan, but it's kind of odd that the skin is falling away from the fins. That's new to me.

If you can post pictures of the others and maybe a video of them it might offer more information.

I would probably treat the tank with a broad spectrum medication or salt, or both. Maybe salt first if you have some otherwise get a fish medication that treats bacteria, fungus and external protozoan parasites.

Treat it for 2 weeks and see if it helps.


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To work out the volume of water in the tank:
measure length x width x height in cm.
divide by 1000.
= volume in litres.

When you measure the height, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level.

If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove these before measuring the height of the water level so you get a more accurate water volume.

You can use a permanent marker to draw a line on the tank at the water level and put down how many litres are in the tank at that level.

There is a calculator/ converter in the "FishForum.net Calculator" under "Useful Links" at the bottom of this page that will let you convert litres to gallons if you need it.


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Before you treat an aquarium, do the following.
Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week or until the problem is identified. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating with chemicals or it will adsorb the medication and stop it working. You do not need to remove the carbon if you use salt.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

I go with Colin but something genetic can also be at hand. And probably a combination of it.

It's definitely pretty unusual if it's something Colin hasn't seen before! Have never seen that happen in my time on these forums.

I'm thinking it could just be a bad clutch. Did you breed them yourself?

Colin_T said:

SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

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Thank you soo much for the detailed response!!! I already use salt prophylacticly in all of my aquariums (add every water change) but will treat it with an antibiotic. since the first death i have not had a single problem with any of my other fish, which is why i was leaning genetic , but i also saw a little bit of red streaking which made me think bacterial(could just be an opportunistic bacterial infection since they were already sick, idk).
the first girl died about a month ago but im not sure if i got any pics, i will try and find some. The one that passed last night was euthanized as her gills were flaring, heavy breathing, and she started swimming upside down. I probably waited too long to euth if she was that bad off but I thought i would try a kanaplex treatment.
i will get more pics of the other girls. i feel like i have heard of/ personally dealt with every sickness under the sun, but have never seen anything like this, which is why i posted. i know fish TB is extremely rare but some of the symptoms line up, not saying thats what it is, but there are a lot if similarities. probably crazy of me to even suggest that, but it def has me stumped too!

DragonScales+Doubletails said:

I'm thinking it could just be a bad clutch. Did you breed them yourself?

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noo i got them from a friend of mine who breeds bettas in flordia. she usually produces super nice spawns but maybe this one just wasnt right, im going to message her to see if any of her other bettas from that clutch were defective!

Why are you adding salt prophylactically?
Bettas don't normally have salt in the water and if they have been exposed to salt for a long period of time, they could have kidney failure.

Fish Tuberculosis (TB) is actually quite common, especially from fish that come out of Asia. It is unlikely to be Fish TB if your friend bred the fish.

Try not to use antibiotics in the main tank or unless you absolutely have to. There are a number of broad spectrum medications that kill bacteria, fungus and other things, and they are not antibiotics. Save the antibiotics for known bacterial infections that haven't responded to normal treatments.

Fishiies said:

I already use salt prophylacticly in all of my aquariums

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wow, what other fish do you keep? 'cause freshwater fish don't live in brackish water.

Colin_T said:

Why are you adding salt prophylactically?
Bettas don't normally have salt in the water and if they have been exposed to salt for a long period of time, they could have kidney failure.

Fish Tuberculosis (TB) is actually quite common, especially from fish that come out of Asia. It is unlikely to be Fish TB if your friend bred the fish.

Try not to use antibiotics in the main tank or unless you absolutely have to. There are a number of broad spectrum medications that kill bacteria, fungus and other things, and they are not antibiotics. Save the antibiotics for known bacterial infections that haven't responded to normal treatments.

Click to expand...

I have always added a tiny bit of aquarium salt to my tanks, i dont do it every water change but here and there (since salt doesn't evaporate). It helps kill parasites, promote healthy gill function, reduces osmotic pressure, reduces stress, and helps slime coat production which further helps prevent disease(which is the main reason why i do it!) also helps with electrolytes etc. I know bettas dont normally live with salt but i do about a 1 tsp per ten gallons. Is what Ive read about aquarium salt wrong? I actually would really love your input on this, as I dont want to spread bad information.

I can provide a ton of sources which say aquarium salt is a beneficial tank additive too, but I am also newer in the hobby (only at it a little over a year) so if this is bad advice please lmk!!

DragonScales+Doubletails said:

wow, what other fish do you keep? 'cause freshwater fish don't live in brackish water.

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Oh gosh I dont add enough to make it "brackish". I just do 1tsp per 10g, its supposed to help with slime coat production and prevent disease etc. read my reply below, but i may be running off bad information.