how to make sword plants make more babies

Byron · Jul 2, 2021

kribensis12 said:
I have often wondered this, too. I have a rather large amazon sword (feed with root tabs and a liquid fertilizer) and a smaller one - the large one is about 6 years old and the smaller one about 2 years old.

They grow very well and look very healthy - but they never send off runners. I know my coloration, growth rate and leaf density that they are doing well - they just don't seem interested in propagating.

What species is the "sword" plant? Echinodorus grisebachii (which is the most commonly-available "sword" and includes the variety that used to be scientifically described as E. bleherae) is incredibly prolific when conditions suit it. I had five of these plants in my 5-foot 115g tank some years ago (got rid of the large tanks when I had to move) and each plant would have one or two inflorescences every 12 months. One plant actually had five at the same time (I think the attached photo may show this, though counting them is difficult in the photo). Flourish Tabs, one per plant replaced every 2-3 months, and Flourish Comprehensive Supplement added weekly (one dose only). Play sand substrate. Moderate lighting (two 48-inch T8 fluorescent tubes, a 5000K and a 6500K).

Within this species there are "varieties" that were previously assumed to be distinct species until phylogenetic analysis sorted this out. But a species like E. grisebachii can have quite different forms, not only in an aquarium where conditions (light and nutrient availability) may obviously vary, but this has been confirmed to occur in the habitats as well, what can be termed transitional forms of the species. But the limited genetic variation within the complex is insufficient to establish reasonable groupings (Lehtonen & Falck, 2011).

kribensis12 · Jul 2, 2021

Byron said:
What species is the "sword" plant? Echinodorus grisebachii (which is the most commonly-available "sword" and includes the variety that used to be scientifically described as E. bleherae) is incredibly prolific when conditions suit it. I had five of these plants in my 5-foot 115g tank some years ago (got rid of the large tanks when I had to move) and each plant would have one or two inflorescences every 12 months. One plant actually had five at the same time (I think the attached photo may show this, though counting them is difficult in the photo). Flourish Tabs, one per plant replaced every 2-3 months, and Flourish Comprehensive Supplement added weekly (one dose only). Play sand substrate.

Within this species there are "varieties" that were previously assumed to be distinct species until phylogenetic analysis sorted this out. But a speci9es like E. grisebachii can have quite different forms, not only in an aquarium where conditions (light and nutrient availability) may obviously vary, but this has been confirmed to occur in the habitats as well, what can be termed transitional forms of the species. But the limited genetic variation within the complex is insufficient to establish reasonable groupings (Lehtonen & Falck, 2011).

Welp - I am an avid gardener but aquatic gardening is newer to me.

With that being said, I believe it was sold generically as an Amazon Sword plant. If you look at my recent post here, there is a video which shows both Sword plants. I do Flourish Root tabs every 3 or so months (wish I could say I was better about doing it right on time, but alas that is untrue) and I use Flourish liquid fert every week or so (depending on my crazy schedule TBH).

Byron · Jul 2, 2021

kribensis12 said:
Welp - I am an avid gardener but aquatic gardening is newer to me.

With that being said, I believe it was sold generically as an Amazon Sword plant. If you look at my recent post here, there is a video which shows both Sword plants. I do Flourish Root tabs every 3 or so months (wish I could say I was better about doing it right on time, but alas that is untrue) and I use Flourish liquid fert every week or so (depending on my crazy schedule TBH).

As I have frequently cautioned others, it is difficult to identify species in this genus from photos of the leaves without the flowers. But nonetheless I will suggest that the two plants in the video are E. grisebachii. The leaves appear to be the submersed form, the pellucid lines match, and if the petiole is triangular in cross-section, that would make it fairly likely.

Thinking back, I had my original plants for several years before they suddenly began sending out inflorescences. They grew so large that 2-3 inches of the leaf ends were actually lying on the surface of that tank. I planted some of the adventitious plants in other tanks, and they grew to quite different sizes, obviously depending upon the light/nutrient conditions and perhaps water depth.

kribensis12 · Jul 2, 2021

Byron said:
As I have frequently cautioned others, it is difficult to identify species in this genus from photos of the leaves without the flowers. But nonetheless I will suggest that the two plants in the video are E. grisebachii. The leaves appear to be the submersed form, the pellucid lines match, and if the petiole is triangular in cross-section, that would make it fairly likely.

Thinking back, I had my original plants for several years before they suddenly began sending out inflorescences. They grew so large that 2-3 inches of the leaf ends were actually lying on the surface of that tank. I planted some of the adventitious plants in other tanks, and they grew to quite different sizes, obviously depending upon the light/nutrient conditions and perhaps water depth.

I think you nailed it - the leaves look identical as well as the formation of the plant, coloration and leaf density.

Sgooosh · Jul 2, 2021

Byron said:
OK, there is still something here I do not understand, given your different "descriptions" concerning the inflorescence that grew from the original plant after you planted it in the aquarium (submersed). Initially you said it produced flowers, now you seem to be saying it had baby plants (termed adventitious plants). These are two very different things. To be honest, flowers does not seem at all likely, from what you have told us.

A photo of the parent plant will help us identify the species of Echinodorus, this makes a difference too.

Like this
it is a amazon sword if that helps

so this is a runner?

Byron · Jul 2, 2021

Sgooosh said:
View attachment 139311Like this
it is a amazon sword if that helps

so this is a runner?

Now we're getting somewhere.

No, that is not a runner, this species does not produce runners. It is an inflorescence. When this species of sword (this is most likely Echinodorus grisebachii, and likely the bleherae form) are grown submersd as here, flowers will never be produced on the inflorescence, but adventitious plants (baby plants, daughter plants) will, two at each node. It is only when this plant is grown emersed, its leaves in the air with the roots in moist/wet substrate, that flowers will be produced, followed by seeds.

If this inflorescence appeared after you planted the parent plant, you will undoubtedly get many more over time. I have had plants produce inflorescences two, even three times a year, and anywhere from one to two normally, but sometimes more at once. Keep it well fed--substrate tabs like Flourish Tabs are best for this.

Sgooosh · Jul 2, 2021

Byron said:
Now we're getting somewhere.

No, that is not a runner, this species does not produce runners. It is an inflorescence. When this species of sword (this is most likely Echinodorus grisebachii, and likely the bleherae form) are grown submersd as here, flowers will never be produced on the inflorescence, but adventitious plants (baby plants, daughter plants) will, two at each node. It is only when this plant is grown emersed, its leaves in the air with the roots in moist/wet substrate, that flowers will be produced, followed by seeds.

If this inflorescence appeared after you planted the parent plant, you will undoubtedly get many more over time. I have had plants produce inflorescences two, even three times a year, and anywhere from one to two normally, but sometimes more at once. Keep it well fed--substrate tabs like Flourish Tabs are best for this.

ok!
so seasons?
temp?
light?

also what about rubin swords

Echinodorus sp. Red Rubin

(mine just got submersed so yea)

Byron · Jul 2, 2021

Sgooosh said:
ok!
so seasons?
temp?
light?

also what about rubin swords

Echinodorus sp. Red Rubin
(mine just got submersed so yea)

Yes, tropical plants like the swords do have seasonal differences, they need a rest period between periods of vegetative growth (the submersed inflorescences are termed vegetative growth, as opposed to the flowering emersed growth which is sexual). Light affects the growth, but that would not seem to be an issue here, given the present state of vegetative growth. Temperature is not an issue provided it is in the normal range for tropical fish.

Now, to the Red Rubin Sword. This plant is not a true species, but was cultivated by a botanist, Hans Barth, from cross-breeding Echinodorus horemanii with E. x barthii (see Kasselmann, 2003).

E. x barthii itself is not a natural species, being a hybrid likely originating with an Australian botanist. Several species of Echinodorus have been described on the basis of cultivated material of unknown origin encountered in the aquarium trade, or sterile plants. Because natural species have been largely replaced by cultivars and hybrids produced for commercial purposes (Kasselmann 2003), species descriptions based on such material are dubious at best (Lehtonen, 2008) and E. barthii is one of these dubious "species."

It gets more involved, as E. horemanii is not a true species, but is in fact E. uruguayensis.

According to Kasselmann, inflorescences will appear producing adventitious plants.

Sgooosh · Jul 2, 2021

Byron said:
Yes, tropical plants like the swords do have seasonal differences, they need a rest period between periods of vegetative growth (the submersed inflorescences are termed vegetative growth, as opposed to the flowering emersed growth which is sexual). Light affects the growth, but that would not seem to be an issue here, given the present state of vegetative growth. Temperature is not an issue provided it is in the normal range for tropical fish.

Now, to the Red Rubin Sword. This plant is not a true species, but was cultivated by a botanist, Hans Barth, from cross-breeding Echinodorus horemanii with E. x barthii (see Kasselmann, 2003).

E. x barthii itself is not a natural species, being a hybrid likely originating with an Australian botanist. Several species of Echinodorus have been described on the basis of cultivated material of unknown origin encountered in the aquarium trade, or sterile plants. Because natural species have been largely replaced by cultivars and hybrids produced for commercial purposes (Kasselmann 2003), species descriptions based on such material are dubious at best (Lehtonen, 2008) and E. barthii is one of these dubious "species."

It gets more involved, as E. horemanii is not a true species, but is in fact E. uruguayensis.

According to Kasselmann, inflorescences will appear producing adventitious plants.

oh. so rubins will have runners?

Byron · Jul 2, 2021

Sgooosh said:
oh. so rubins will have runners?

I think you mean inflorescences. No Echinodorus species produces runners, so far as I am aware. And yes, inflorescences will occur if the plant is "happy" with its environment.

AdoraBelle Dearheart · Jul 2, 2021

Byron said:
What species is the "sword" plant? Echinodorus grisebachii (which is the most commonly-available "sword" and includes the variety that used to be scientifically described as E. bleherae) is incredibly prolific when conditions suit it. I had five of these plants in my 5-foot 115g tank some years ago (got rid of the large tanks when I had to move) and each plant would have one or two inflorescences every 12 months. One plant actually had five at the same time (I think the attached photo may show this, though counting them is difficult in the photo). Flourish Tabs, one per plant replaced every 2-3 months, and Flourish Comprehensive Supplement added weekly (one dose only). Play sand substrate. Moderate lighting (two 48-inch T8 fluorescent tubes, a 5000K and a 6500K).

Within this species there are "varieties" that were previously assumed to be distinct species until phylogenetic analysis sorted this out. But a species like E. grisebachii can have quite different forms, not only in an aquarium where conditions (light and nutrient availability) may obviously vary, but this has been confirmed to occur in the habitats as well, what can be termed transitional forms of the species. But the limited genetic variation within the complex is insufficient to establish reasonable groupings (Lehtonen & Falck, 2011).

I have serious tank envy going on... that's so beautiful!

Is it okay to ask about my own sword in this thread? Whether I could encourage it to send out daughter plants too?
Sold to me as echinodorus "rose", I guess because the new leaves it produces are a reddish/brown colour, turning green as they get larger. Bought from Tropica as in-vitro, leaf forms looked as though it was grown emersed, planted in the tank about ten months ago, it's grown large enough for the leaves to often be at or through the surface of a 15 gallon tank. I do plan to move it to a 57 gallon soon.

I don't feed it as often as I should, has huge root system, and I foolishly trimmed some of the oldest leaves off a few months ago since it had taken over the tank, and it just produced more leaves in response. Should I avoid cutting and removing older leaves in future?

Byron · Jul 2, 2021

I could not offer more or better info on this plant that you can find here:

Echinodorus 'Rose' - Tropica Aquarium Plants

Echinodorus ‘Rosé’ is a rosette plant in Tropica’s Easy category and comes supplied in pots. It grows up to 40cm tall and 25cm wide making it an ideal background plant for most aquariums. It is grown in Tropica’s greenhouses hydroponically and transforms in colour once adapted to its underwater...

tropica.com

George Farmer is one of the recognized authorities on caring for aquarium plants.

AdoraBelle Dearheart · Jul 2, 2021

Byron said:
I could not offer more or better info on this plant that you can find here:

Echinodorus 'Rose' - Tropica Aquarium Plants

Echinodorus ‘Rosé’ is a rosette plant in Tropica’s Easy category and comes supplied in pots. It grows up to 40cm tall and 25cm wide making it an ideal background plant for most aquariums. It is grown in Tropica’s greenhouses hydroponically and transforms in colour once adapted to its underwater...

tropica.com

George Farmer is one of the recognized authorities on caring for aquarium plants.

Brilliant, thank you! It doesn't mention propogation though, is it just a case of lots of feeding and light, and time?

Byron · Jul 2, 2021

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:
Brilliant, thank you! It doesn't mention propogation though, is it just a case of lots of feeding and light, and time?

Kasselmann says inflorescences will be produced, and for cultivation a medium to intense light, a free-standing location, and a nutrient rich substrate [of course substrate tabs provide the latter, no need to tear the tank apart for some useless plant substrate].

AdoraBelle Dearheart · Jul 2, 2021

Byron said:
Kasselmann says inflorescences will be produced, and for cultivation a medium to intense light, a free-standing location, and a nutrient rich substrate [of course substrate tabs provide the latter, no need to tear the tank apart for some useless plant substrate].

Awesome, thank you kindly!

Also just want to say how wonderful it is to see you here! That you're feeling well enough to participate, we've missed you so much! Thoughts are still with you

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