Planted Guppy Tank (54L)

06.03.2021
This project is certainly proving to be a learning experience for me. The experience being, don't just pour a 9L bucket of water into the tank after you've spent half an hour meticulously placing your plants.
But anyway, here we go. Here's the start. Got some micranthemum umbrosum today since there was no dwarf hairgrass and it doesn't cope well with the freakishly hard water in my area.

There was no amazon frogbit available at my LFS, so I'm going out on an online journey. Wish me luck.
Still trying to decide on a stock for this tank. Definitely guppies, maybe some shrimp... Might get some java moss as well if it works well with my current plants. I'll look into it a little more first.
Thinking about some good rocks and such for this tank. A few rocks covered in moss would look quite nice. Would duckweed work instead of frogbit? I feel like it could be a bad idea but I don't really know why.

Pictures are of the two attempts I made to fill the tank and root those little plants. I have learned from my mistakes, which is the main thing.

PlasticGalaxy said:

06.03.2021
This project is certainly proving to be a learning experience for me. The experience being, don't just pour a 9L bucket of water into the tank after you've spent half an hour meticulously placing your plants.
But anyway, here we go. Here's the start. Got some micranthemum umbrosum today since there was no dwarf hairgrass and it doesn't cope well with the freakishly hard water in my area.

There was no amazon frogbit available at my LFS, so I'm going out on an online journey. Wish me luck.
Still trying to decide on a stock for this tank. Definitely guppies, maybe some shrimp... Might get some java moss as well if it works well with my current plants. I'll look into it a little more first.
Thinking about some good rocks and such for this tank. A few rocks covered in moss would look quite nice. Would duckweed work instead of frogbit? I feel like it could be a bad idea but I don't really know why.

Pictures are of the two attempts I made to fill the tank and root those little plants. I have learned from my mistakes, which is the main thing.

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Looking great! Love this part of starting a new tank, it's a really exciting part of the process! Remember to take lots of pics as you go, it's amazing how much things can change in a week or so, that you don't really notice since you see the tank constantly, but can see the difference between photos taken a week apart!

Tips!
I'd recommend getting any rocks/wood other hardscape you want to have before you add any more plants! Much easier to plant around hardscape, than arrange hardscape around plants - and you don't want to have to uproot and move plants around when they're just beginning to try to establish and root.

Duckweed - I would highly, HIGHLY recommend avoiding it! A lot of people don't mind it, but if you once you've got it, it's so so difficult to remove it if you ever decide you're sick of it and want to try something else. Have seen it called the herpes of the aquatic plant world.. it always comes back!

Put it this way, I tried so hard to eradicate it from my tanks for months, but it only takes one tiny, dried out speck of it remaining hidden under the rim or stuck to a piece of equipment, for it to rehydrate and come back with a vengeance. It's the messiest of the floaters, sticking to equipment, getting blown down into the tank by filters and catching on everything in there, sticking to your arm whenever you're doing tank maintanence - a most unpleasant sensation - it's just the worst! I even left some fish stuff soaking in a bleach solution outside for a few days, came back to find healthy, thriving duckweed growing in the bucket! This stuff survives bleaching...

I finally succeeded in getting rid of it from my tanks after weeks of skimming it from the surfaces, cleaning all the equipment, wiping around the inside of the rims, cleaning the filters and airline tubing, but it's reappeared, out of nowhere. Now I'm still removing it whenever I find it, like five months after I thought it had gone! Must have been a speck stuck to an old syphon or something. My frogbit, if I wanted it gone, I could remove and have it all gone in half an hour.

For adding water without stirring up substrate too much, I use a disposable plastic plate, float that on the surface and pour the water from the jug onto that. Spreads it out more slowly and gently so you don't stir up sand Can even use a sheet of cling film in a pinch to do that.

If you're anywhere near Bristol, have guppy fry you can have for free if you'd like!

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

Tips!
I'd recommend getting any rocks/wood other hardscape you want to have before you add any more plants! Much easier to plant around hardscape, than arrange hardscape around plants - and you don't want to have to uproot and move plants around when they're just beginning to try to establish and root.

Frogbit - I would highly, HIGHLY recommend avoiding it! A lot of people don't mind it, but if you once you've got it, it's so so difficult to remove it if you ever decide you're sick of it and want to try something else. Have seen it called the herpes of the aquatic plant world.. it always comes back!

For adding water without stirring up substrate too much, I use a disposable plastic plate, float that on the surface and pour the water from the jug onto that. Spreads it out more slowly and gently so you don't stir up sand Can even use a sheet of cling film in a pinch to do that.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the tips on the rocks! If I can I might try and head to my LFS (plural) within the week to take a look at some good rocks and such before I decide on any more plants.

Thank you for the warning on frogbit. I can honestly see myself getting a little tired of it since it appears to get out of control so quickly. Are there any nice floaty plants similar to frogbit that don't spread like the plague? Do you know if dwarf water lettuce is any good? (I've not looked into this yet, but I've heard about it in passing).

Found that filling a cut-in-half milk jug with water from the bucket, then cupping your hand under the water flow to disperse it works quite well, too!

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

If you're anywhere near Bristol, have guppy fry you can have for free if you'd like!

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I'd love to!! But I'm all the way down in the South East, so I might have to pass on that lol. I'd love to see pictures though!! Baby fish are so cute

PlasticGalaxy said:

I'd love to!! But I'm all the way down in the South East, so I might have to pass on that lol. I'd love to see pictures though!! Baby fish are so cute

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Haha, guppies are definitely not a fish that are worth the expense and time of travelling for, even if it were allowed! Was still worth offering, in case I could offload some of these babies!
Will try and grab some pics of them feeding later, here's a couple of one of the yellow babies to tide you over though;




Parents


Dad has some beautiful purples in him that aren't showing well in the photo.

Blue platy babies, will be old enough to go to the store soon;

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

Haha, guppies are definitely not a fish that are worth the expense and time of travelling for, even if it were allowed! Was still worth offering, in case I could offload some of these babies!
Will try and grab some pics of them feeding later, here's a couple of one of the yellow babies to tide you over though;

View attachment 130820View attachment 130821


Parents
View attachment 130822

Dad has some beautiful purples in him that aren't showing well in the photo.

Blue platy babies, will be old enough to go to the store soon;

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What little sweethearts! Love the speckled blue tail on the adult. Can you selectively breed them? I want all of mine to look that extravagant lol

PlasticGalaxy said:

Thank you for the tips on the rocks! If I can I might try and head to my LFS (plural) within the week to take a look at some good rocks and such before I decide on any more plants.

Thank you for the warning on frogbit. I can honestly see myself getting a little tired of it since it appears to get out of control so quickly. Are there any nice floaty plants similar to frogbit that don't spread like the plague? Do you know if dwarf water lettuce is any good? (I've not looked into this yet, but I've heard about it in passing).

Found that filling a cut-in-half milk jug with water from the bucket, then cupping your hand under the water flow to disperse it works quite well, too!

Click to expand...

I have water lettuce too, it's fine! I find the frogbit a bit healthier/less annoying, when water lettuce starts to die back, the leaves and roots make a mess in the tank which can be annoying, and when it's thriving, it grows and spreads just as much as frogbit. But mileage may vary, depending on your water/ferts/lighting!

In my personal experience, I've only had frogbit, water lettuce and duckweed, and frogbit is my favourite, followed by water lettuce, duckweed* dead last. There's also salvinia and red root floaters, never tried those myself, although I really want to give red root floaters a try, for that pop of colour!

*Edited to correct duckweed from frogbit

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

I have water lettuce too, it's fine! I find the frogbit a bit healthier/less annoying, when water lettuce starts to die back, the leaves and roots make a mess in the tank which can be annoying, and when it's thriving, it grows and spreads just as much as frogbit. But mileage may vary, depending on your water/ferts/lighting!

In my personal experience, I've only had frogbit, water lettuce and duckweed, and frogbit is my favourite, followed by water lettuce, frogbit dead last. There's also salvinia and red root floaters, never tried those myself, although I really want to give red root floaters a try, for that pop of colour!

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Oh wow, this might sound a little dense but I had no idea that colourful floaters existed! I thought they were all just green lol.
Is there anything that's specifically good about duckweed in comparison to the others?

PlasticGalaxy said:

What little sweethearts! Love the speckled blue tail on the adult. Can you selectively breed them? I want all of mine to look that extravagant lol

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The speckled blue tail on the female?

Yep, you can selectively breed for certain colours. You can get fancy guppies if you want more reliable genetics and sure fire know what babies you'll get. With mutt guppies like mine/the average pet shop guppies, you'll probably get quite a mix of colours. Would have to breed quite a few generations and continue improving it to select for the colours you want, and would get a lot that aren't what you want, but I've had quite a few females with similar tails, like this one that has since passed away, sadly. The one in the previous photo you liked is her daughter



I was trying to breed for a purple gene for a while, got some gorgeous deep purples, but a lot of plain black as well, so would have meant rehoming or culling the undesireable ones for many generations, and only breeding the best of the ones I liked to keep that going and get them better and better. The young male at the top of both these pics became a gorgeous deep purple as he matured.




But as you can see, lots of less attractive males produced to get a couple of good ones. You can't always tell when they're young either, that purple boy became so much more beautiful between 4-6 months of age. The males still develop their colours and fins up until about six months of age, so it's worth keeping back a few that look like they might have what you want, or waiting and growing out a batch until six months instead of the usual 3-4, if the thing you're looking for tends to develop later, like silver colours, or long fins.

The large blue-tailed females here are the original females I started with, so you can see how the females tail colours have changed as I bred down the generations.


Duckweed - good points! Rarely fails, while other floating plants can be a bit more demanding, don't usually have to worry about duckweed dying or polluting your tank. It's great at absorbing nitrates. It can look nice too. That's about it, to me!

Are you planning to breed your guppies then?

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

The speckled blue tail on the female?

Yep, you can selectively breed for certain colours. You can get fancy guppies if you want more reliable genetics and sure fire know what babies you'll get. With mutt guppies like mine/the average pet shop guppies, you'll probably get quite a mix of colours. Would have to breed quite a few generations and continue improving it to select for the colours you want, and would get a lot that aren't what you want, but I've had quite a few females with similar tails, like this one that has since passed away, sadly. The one in the previous photo you liked is her daughter
View attachment 130829


I was trying to breed for a purple gene for a while, got some gorgeous deep purples, but a lot of plain black as well, so would have meant rehoming or culling the undesireable ones for many generations, and only breeding the best of the ones I liked to keep that going and get them better and better. The young male at the top of both these pics became a gorgeous deep purple as he matured.
View attachment 130830

View attachment 130834

But as you can see, lots of less attractive males produced to get a couple of good ones. You can't always tell when they're young either, that purple boy became so much more beautiful between 4-6 months of age. The males still develop their colours and fins up until about six months of age, so it's worth keeping back a few that look like they might have what you want, or waiting and growing out a batch until six months instead of the usual 3-4, if the thing you're looking for tends to develop later, like silver colours, or long fins.

The large blue-tailed females here are the original females I started with, so you can see how the females tail colours have changed as I bred down the generations.
View attachment 130835

Duckweed - good points! Rarely fails, while other floating plants can be a bit more demanding, don't usually have to worry about duckweed dying or polluting your tank. It's great at absorbing nitrates. It can look nice too. That's about it, to me!

Are you planning to breed your guppies then?

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All of these are stunning!!

I might have a look into duckweed, then.

And yes, I've got plans to start breeding them!

PlasticGalaxy said:

All of these are stunning!!

I might have a look into duckweed, then.

And yes, I've got plans to start breeding them!

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Thanks!

Make sure you share photos and progress when you start breeding then!

@AdoraBelle Dearheart Can we just clarify for PlasticGalaxy. You said frogbit takes over and you can't get rid of it, but you also said

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

In my personal experience, I've only had frogbit, water lettuce and duckweed, and frogbit is my favourite, followed by water lettuce, frogbit dead last.

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Frogbit can't be both your favourite and the one you hate most Do you mean duckweed is the one you hate most, the one that you can never get out of the tank if you don't like it, the one that's totally invasive? Just one leaf missed behind the filter and duckweed will take over again.

@PlasticGalaxy I have frogbit in both my tanks and apart from the roots needing regular trimming, it's my favourite floating plant.
All floating plants will need thinning out if they are growing properly. Water sprite is another floating plant but they get quite large so I wouldn't have that in a small tank. I've had salvinia in the past but it all died off in a heatwave


Word of caution if you plan on having shrimps. Be careful where you get your plants from. Plants grown outside the EU must be treated with snail killer - and we may have left the EU but the law hasn't been repealed yet (if it ever is). Snail killing chemicals also kill shrimps - Adorabelle has experienced this. When shrimps are in a tank - or planned for a tank - buy in vitro plants or plants grown in the EU. Tropica (Denmark), Aquafleur (Netherlands) and Dennerle (Germany) plants are EU grown. There are several sites which sell shrimp safe plants - ProShrimp, Java Plants and the seller k2aqua on Ebay are the ones I know of, but anyone else selling in vitro plants are good as well.

Essjay said:

@PlasticGalaxy I have frogbit in both my tanks and apart from the roots needing regular trimming, it's my favourite floating plant.
All floating plants will need thinning out if they are growing properly. Water sprite is another floating plant but they get quite large so I wouldn't have that in a small tank. I've had salvinia in the past but it all died off in a heatwave


Word of caution if you plan on having shrimps. Be careful where you get your plants from. Plants grown outside the EU must be treated with snail killer - and we may have left the EU but the law hasn't been repealed yet (if it ever is). Snail killing chemicals also kill shrimps - Adorabelle has experienced this. When shrimps are in a tank - or planned for a tank - buy in vitro plants or plants grown in the EU. Tropica (Denmark), Aquafleur (Netherlands) and Dennerle (Germany) plants are EU grown. There are several sites which sell shrimp safe plants - ProShrimp, Java Plants and the seller k2aqua on Ebay are the ones I know of, but anyone else selling in vitro plants are good as well.

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Do you know anything on dwarf water lettuce? I'd really like to have a look at a good range of plants before I make a decision on floating plants.

And thank you for the warning, so far the micranthemum umbrosum was EU grown which is a relief. I'll have a look at these sellers and decide on the best option(s).

I've only attempted water lettuce once, years ago. It died. But then so did duckweed Yes, I killed duckweed. Since I've got more into plants water lettuce might now survive in my tanks.

The floating plants I've had success with are:
salvinia, till it all went brown and died during a heatwave
water sprite, which I removed as it got huge and the plants all tangles up together making it hard to take some plants out
frogbit, my current floating plant. That is much easier to thin out and when the roots grow too long I just trim them. That only adds a couple of minutes to a water change.

Hornwort can also be used as a floating plant. If you plant one end of the stem in the substrate, the stems grow so long they'll reach the surface and carry on growing across the surface. I once had some. Rther than plant it in the substrate I wound the stems round some branchy wood. I removed that as well in the end as it was growing so well it was strangling the other plants.




As a very general rule of thumb, floating plants with smooth leaves do well. Floating plants with hairy/furry leaves don't do as well. That's probably why the salvinia and water lettuce died in my tanks - they have furry leaves while water sprite and frogbit have smooth leaves.



Edit to add - I forgot about red root floater. Members on here have that but I've never tried it.