Re-starting 15 gallon, 1st time with sand

Ch4rlie said:

A HOB filter sounds good to me at this point!!

Only kidding, well, the sponge filter tbh is the best filter for shrimps and snail tank set ups. But they'll be fine with whichever filter you decide to use for that tank.

A case of trying things out and moving the filters in different positions to see which outcome you like the best, you wont know until you try.

The shrimps will be fine with you moving things around in the tank, in fact they'll probably like it because you'll be stirring up new foods for them to munch on

The plants are starting to look good. Too early I think to know for certain if they'll do well or not but looks like a good start anyhow.

Dragonstones look cool, and shrimps DO like them due to the hidey holes and a sort of adventure ground for them to climb around on.

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Haha, I do also have a cycled HOB filter I can use! I also have two or three uncycled internal filters for that matter... was thinking of switching to or just adding an internal to the oto tank since they like a bit of current.

I was planning a direct swap of the canister for the double sponge mainly because both are fully cycled. I've ridden out a mini cycle in the guppy/shrimp tank since it was so new and clean even with the established filter, and now riding out a mini cycle in the quarantine 12 gallon that has four baby cories in it, so wasn't keen on riding out a third mini cycle in a row. Plus the internal filters are surprisingly powerful for cheap internal ones, too much flow for guppies, and risk of sucking up fry and shrimplets.

But! There's another alternative. I could switch the canister filter AND the single sponge filter from the quarantine tank to the guppy/shrimp tank. Best of both worlds! Takes up much less room than the double sponge, but shrimp will still have a sponge, and canister can do the heavy lifting while plants are still growing in.

Or the HOB can come into play...

Decision, decisions! Help! lol

Ch4rlie said:

The shrimps will be fine with you moving things around in the tank, in fact they'll probably like it because you'll be stirring up new foods for them to munch on

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Ohh, speaking of stirring things up for them to munch on, a worry occurred to me the other day (always so many new worries and concerns with fish tanks, especially for a born worrier) and I'd like to clear it up before I go switching things around and lifting and moving the plants.

Since it's my first time with sand, and anaerobic pockets are always a concern with sand, is there a risk of my accidentally burying some organic matter into the sand and that creating problems? I'll obviously do my best to clean the substrate first to avoid that, but since you still need to move hardscape and things sometimes during maintenance, or add more plants later do you need to be extra careful not to let any debris get underneath the sand? Of course I'd be able to avoid large bits, but it's pretty impossible to avoid every tiny speck that has settled on the sand. Hopefully the MTS will take care of any of that, but I only have a few of them right now.

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

Ohh, speaking of stirring things up for them to munch on, a worry occurred to me the other day (always so many new worries and concerns with fish tanks, especially for a born worrier) and I'd like to clear it up before I go switching things around and lifting and moving the plants.

Since it's my first time with sand, and anaerobic pockets are always a concern with sand, is there a risk of my accidentally burying some organic matter into the sand and that creating problems? I'll obviously do my best to clean the substrate first to avoid that, but since you still need to move hardscape and things sometimes during maintenance, or add more plants later do you need to be extra careful not to let any debris get underneath the sand? Of course I'd be able to avoid large bits, but it's pretty impossible to avoid every tiny speck that has settled on the sand. Hopefully the MTS will take care of any of that, but I only have a few of them right now.

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IMO, its a myth - 'the deadly pockets of gas' aspect. Yes, if the anaerobic bacteria has been breaking down sulphur for oxygen, then a deadly gas is created. However when this gas is introduced to o2 (within the water column), it instantly becomes harmless. Ideally the anaerobic bacteria use nitrate for oxygen, thus fulfilling the nitrogen cycle, and the gas created as a bi-product is nitrogen.

Besides, I'd say its too early for any gas to have been created yet, let alone any anaerobic bacteria

mbsqw1d said:

IMO, its a myth - 'the deadly pockets of gas' aspect. Yes, if the anaerobic bacteria has been breaking down sulphur for oxygen, then a deadly gas is created. However when this gas is introduced to o2 (within the water column), it instantly becomes harmless. Ideally the anaerobic bacteria use nitrate for oxygen, thus fulfilling the nitrogen cycle, and the gas created as a bi-product is nitrogen.

Besides, I'd say its too early for any gas to have been created yet, let alone any anaerobic bacteria

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Ah great, thank you! Yes, I didn't think any anaerobic pockets could have formed yet, I was worried about creating conditions for them to form by accidentally burying anything organic under the sand?

And you've got those MTS which will tunnel through the sand stirring it up.

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

Ah great, thank you! Yes, I didn't think any anaerobic pockets could have formed yet, I was worried about creating conditions for them to form by accidentally burying anything organic under the sand?

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Depends how deep it is buried, for as far as o2 is available within the substrate (first inch for example), then the regular aerobic BB will consume decaying plant matter and convert from ammonia to nitrate. If further down, then other anaerobic bacteria will work to convert to nitrogen/hydrogen sulphide

mbsqw1d said:

IMO, its a myth - 'the deadly pockets of gas' aspect. Yes, if the anaerobic bacteria has been breaking down sulphur for oxygen, then a deadly gas is created. However when this gas is introduced to o2 (within the water column), it instantly becomes harmless. Ideally the anaerobic bacteria use nitrate for oxygen, thus fulfilling the nitrogen cycle, and the gas created as a bi-product is nitrogen.

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Agreed, in a normal tank this simply will not happen. You may (if you are lucky ) achieve minimal anaerobic filtration between 2 and 3 inches but it needs to be deeper than that for H2S pockets to form. It is true that this is harmless, in terms of toxicity, when released into the water column. What wipes out tanks is that it turns into acid which can cause a massive, instant pH drop. This won't happen unless your substrate is significantly deeper than 2". Knowing this I carefully measured to 2" when I set up my most recent tank. Turned out that was too deep so I removed sand until I thought it looked right. That happened to be 1 1/2".

You won’t have any anaerobic gas pockets in your substrate yet.

It takes time for anaerobic gases to form. Very basically it’s the lack of oxygen in these air pockets that makes anaerobic gas.

The benefit of plants in this case is that they bring in oxygen through their roots into the substrate and this can stop anaerobic gases from forming. These plant roots normally are found at around 1 inch beneath the substrate so it’s far more likely that anaerobic gases will be found well below 2 or 3 inches of substrate at least.

Also the fact that you have MTS, they will have turn the soil over and this in turn helps to stop anaerobic gas from forming in the substrate.

I also believe the type of substrate plays a part in forming more anaerobic gases. Very fine sand or substrate is more likely to create or form anaerobic gas pockets, hence why we say to stir the sand every once in a while to release these pockets.

Whether anaerobic gases being toxic is a myth or not as mbsqw1d says, I simply don’t know for certain, but I tend to err on the side of caution just in case.

As you probably have worked out here, I am definitely no scientist when it comes to these sort of things

Thank you so much @essjay , @seangee @mbsqw1d and @Ch4rlie ! I really appreciate the feedback I removed some of the hardscape so I could clean the sand and remove the random stems, switch out filters, and re-plant. A surprising amount of muck on the sand considering the tank is only ten days old and it's had several water changes (when I also clean the substrate), but I guess since I've had to feed the shrimp daily, and their are fry so I need to feed often and the guppies also eat shrimp cuisine pellets, it's not that surprising really.

It was that sort of muck that I was concerned I might accidentally bury, and thus cause anaerobic pockets further down the line, but sounds like I really don't need to worry about that, thank you!

Forgive the low water line, I haven't added root tabs yet so going to do that before I re-fill the rest of the way, and the water is still a bit cloudy. But I decided to put the canister filter intake behind the vallis, which should mask that and the heater nicely, and moved the single sponge filter into this tank instead of the double one, which will hopefully eventually be hidden by clouds of sessiliflora. I thought it might look too bare with the plants regrouped together, but I'm actually really pleased with it! The vallis helps a lot. I do want to leave a little clearing in the middle at the front where almond leaves can go and the shrimp can be fed.

Any thoughts or suggestions for the scape or other plants you think would be good to add? Or whether those two dragonstone pieces make it too symmetrical?

Oh I like that better now

Nicely done!

Ch4rlie said:

Oh I like that better now

Nicely done!

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Thank you kindly!

Gonna do a comparison pic, just to remind myself and compare




Yep, I like it better now too! I know for next time to plant all the little plantlets together. Live and learn

You can't see it from this angle, but the sessiliflora is planted all around the sponge filter, I just left a bit of a gap in front of it because I still have some stems in the quarantine tank that I'm going to add. Will leave enough of a gap that I can lift the filter in and out for cleaning, but the plants will hide it.

Wait, that won't completely spoil the filtration though, will it? I guess it'll reduce the mechanical filtration, but not affect the biofiltration at least, and having another filter on the other side will help too.

Edit: typo

Looks great

AdoraBelle Dearheart said:

Wait, that won't completely spoil the filtration though, will it? I guess it'll reduce the mechanical filtration, but not affect the biofiltration at least, and having another filter on the other side will help too.

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No, it won’t spoil the filtration as water will go through between the plants and as long as the sponge filter is not blocked, good to go.

seangee said:

Looks great

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Ch4rlie said:

No, it won’t spoil the filtration as water will go through between the plants and as long as the sponge filter is not blocked, good to go.

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Thank you both!

Found another dead female shrimp this morning, with the white ring of death The deaths haven't stopped since moving to the new tank. They seemed to slow down, but I've still been finding the odd one here and there. I'm guessing just since they were exposed to the pesticide for those three weeks.

I've been adding beta g to the tank 2 times a week following the directions, and they're in a clean tank now, but I'm not surprised that many of the adults especially are still dying off, that pesticide must have got into their systems during those three weeks. It seems to be hitting the females the hardest though, which is a bit odd. I have found a couple of males and I remember one shrimplet, but I mostly find the big females dead. I'd be looking for other causes, but they're in the same water they were thriving in before, nothing else has changed, and deaths started since I added those plants that came in from Indonesia and so legally must have been sprayed.