Stocking proposal for 125 litre (27g UK) – thoughts welcome!

The pond snails will live for another day! There are multiplying at an alarming rate - the driftwood (azelea root - boiled first to remove tanins) is covered in hundreds of tiny babies! Having had a few plants disintegrate I'm guessing has fueled this. I guess the population will settle down as the tank does. As long as they're doing good rather than harm, I'm happy to have them. They seem to produce a fair bit of waste, but sounds like that's better than the alternative.

The waste produced by small snails is already "waste" in the tank, these snails do not add more because they are eating what is already there.

There's a good amount of hiding space - rocks, driftwood, etc, with quite a few more plants coming too. 3 of the rocks (the largest) are lava rocks, which I guess might not work for loaches since it's not particularly smooth/a bit bubbley looking.

This tank is not suited to loaches, but this is still avalid issue as rough rock can damage them. Cories are best without this as well, and frankly any catfish. Rounded river rock, and of course wood.

Byron - when you mention dwarf vs botine, are you referring to loaches or cories (or it is corys)? Should I be looking at dwarf cories instead? I'd read that dwarf cories are quite different in terms of behaviour - a bit less bottom dwelling, etc. And prefer softer water to my proposed cories, which are the ones supposedly ok with DH14. [Edit - sorry, google is my friend: botine = loaches! I'd prefer to stick to the bronze/sterbai cories rather than dwarfs]

Botine is a term for loaches in the genus Botia but most of us use it for all similar loach species. There are species of loach in this "grouping" that are 3-4 inches, 5 inches, 6 inches, and 12-18 inches. The "dwarf" loach species tend to remain under 3 inches, most around 2 inches.

The "dwarf" Corydoras species remain at 1 inch, but these are not going to do well in this water (GH). Most cory species are in the 2-2.5 inch range when mature. Scleromystax species get larger, 4 - 5 inches.

Assuming I go for corys, Byron, you'd mentioned on another thread that adding the whole school in one is the best approach. But adding 12 at once seems quite bold...? Especially (as per other thread) if I quarantine first in the 19L/5g.

Always add the entire intended number (unless you can only buy fewer because the store does not have more) no matter. Always. This is a significant issue. They will be fine in QT.

When I get round to the pearl gourami, I might start with 1M. Perhaps add one or two females later, but no rush and seemingly need. Ok to quarantine them in the 19L/5g, given that they normally prefer more space?

Yes.

I wonder if there's any sense in getting their number up (to 10-12) before adding other species - safety/comfort in numbers!

Yes, it would be better to increase the group first. They will be less affected with new species the more of them there are.

Thanks again Bryon.

Sounds like loaches are off, corys on, en masse.

Might needs to get my rocks off! Frustrating as I'd only bought the lava rock about a month ago when setting up the tank and won't have any other use for it (unless I re-scape at some point and use it to create hills), but hey... Better that then sad fish.

Stocking wise, plan is:

Add 3-5 glowlight tetras (10-12 seems a reasonable total number to me) and QT cories (say 12, maybe 4 each of 3 species, or 3 each of 4 species). Then move the cories in one go over to big tank.
QT 1M pearl gourami, then move.
Then maybe a bristlenose plec.
Done!
Possibly add more another F PG or two in due course.
Other than thank, I think the only additions would be crustaceans.

If I'm off base or there are other suggestions worth thinking about, all welcome to speak up.

P.S. Just read up that corys in tank rarely get anything like as long as their max potentially of 6.5-7.5cm, so having say 12-15 makes much more sense if they're unlikely to end up more than say 4-5cm each. 15 x 7.5cm of fish seemed quite a different proposition!

Just to update, I now have:

3 pearl gourami (hopefully 1M, 2F - but they're young so perhaps a little hard to tell, though that's what it looks like to my untrained eye). Lovely, beautiful, calming, and graceful - save that the male can be a bit aggressive to the females!

8 corys (shop thought I'd be pushing it with 12) - cute and hyper!

12 glowlight tetras

All doing well.

It'll probably be a while before I get anything else, perhaps other than shrimp of some kind. Still tempted by a bristlenose plec, but other suggestions welcome!

nobo said:

8 corys (shop thought I'd be pushing it with 12) - cute and hyper!

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Eight is OK, but I can assure you from the fish's perspective that 12 would be better. But my main point is...never listen to what store staff tell you if it contradicts reliable research.

Byron said:

Eight is OK, but I can assure you from the fish's perspective that 12 would be better. But my main point is...never listen to what store staff tell you if it contradicts reliable research.

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Thanks Byron. Yes, agreed. I wanted to take your advice over theirs. But they really only seemed comfortable selling 8, and since this was against their own self-interest, I didn't want to push it with them. I might add another 4 next time I go though

I assume a 4/4/4 split - rather than, say, a 4 / 4 / 2 / 2 split - would be considerably preferable, but it may depend on what they have available as to how it pans out if I get the extras.

nobo said:

Thanks Byron. Yes, agreed. I wanted to take your advice over theirs. But they really only seemed comfortable selling 8, and since this was against their own self-interest, I didn't want to push it with them. I might add another 4 next time I go though

I assume a 4/4/4 split - rather than, say, a 4 / 4 / 2 / 2 split - would be considerably preferable, but it may depend on what they have available as to how it pans out if I get the extras.

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The 8 is fine, but I just wanted to emphasize the point that store advice is often (unfortunately) off the mark.

If you have multiple species of cory (the 4/4/4 split thing) it is best to have a few of each species when possible. But to be honest, the overall number of cories in the tank is what seems to matter most to the fish themselves. I have some 12 species in my 40g tank, with 41 cories. There are 7 of one species, 5 each of four species, four of another, two of two species, and one of two species, and three (all fry) that are clearly a hybrid. These have been together for more than 10 years now, which is not at all long for cories, though about six of these are fry from within these species. Some of them chum around with more of their own species, but I also see a lot of social interaction between different species in groups of two or three. The more the merrier.

Wow! That's a lot of corys! That gives me some hope as my 125L works out around 33g. Selfishly, I'd be inclined to have more of a mix than more of the same - though I'd also like happy fish! Since overall number seems most crucial, I'd be inclined to get 4 more at some point so the existing crew are even happier.

@Byron - Out of curiosity, do you have anything else in your 40g tank with the corys, and if so - what?

@the world! If you have any thoughts on what else might be good in this tank (DH14, 25'C, 125L/33 US gallons/sand over soil, low-tech planted), they'd be welcome.

nobo said:

@Byron - Out of curiosity, do you have anything else in your 40g tank with the corys, and if so - what?

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Yes. At present there are 41 cories, two Characidium fasciatum (a pair from what I can see), two common whiptails (Rineloricaria parva and one of the "red" variety of this species), and 13 upper level pencilfish from two species, Nannostomus beckfordi and N. trifasciatus. The pencilfish are getting on in years now, over 7-8, but this is the best tank for them to live out the remainder of their time. The R. parva is now in his 11th year, pretty good for a species with a normal life expectancy of 5 to 8 years. The Characidium were acquired in a group of six as they are a shoaling fish, but only the two survived; I tried to add a few more once, but the male killed them off before I realized what was happening.

I would not normally have this many cories in this tank, but my situation requires it. I initially (10 years ago) had over 50 in a 5-foot 115g Amazon river tank, and when I got rid of this tank four years ago the cories went into the 4-foot 70g. They were down to 36 at that time due to my ignorance--for over 30 years I never quarantined new fish and never had any issues, but about 6-7 years ago I intyroduced an unknown internal protozoan with a group of new fish, and the protozoan wiped out my hatchetfish and several of the cories before a microbiologist friend got it under control. [Lesson learned about quarantining new fish.] While in the 70g they have been spawning frequently, and I used to sometimes find 1, 2, even 3 once, fry in the canister filter when I cleaned it every 3-4 months. So now there are 41. When I moved last May, I had to downsize and got rid of the 70g (and 90g) tanks, and kept the 40g which was designated as the cory tank because it gave them more substrate area (4.5 square feet, compared to 6 in the 70g). I decided to keep the cories together rather than divide them into two tanks; primarily, they all chum around so extensively I just did not want to break them up. Many times I have written about the more the better, and this is certainly true. I am certain they are happier all together than they would be separated. Some aquarists forget that the fish come first, not what we as aquarists may want; when we decide to bring home fish, it is our responsibility to provide the best environment, and I always consider the species' requirements when setting up tanks.

This is the tank as it now appears.

Thanks Bryon! Nice to hear the backstory to your lovely looking tank. That's quite a community. I'm also expect the corys will appreciate being kept together after all that history.

Having been working from home and isolating with the family for two weeks now (with thankfully only mild symptoms of what might be Covid-19), the second quote in your signature is starting to take on additional resonance in this time of lockdown!

Hi, very good read and very informative.
On a side note on snails I got given 5 Mts and it wasn't long before I was seeing lots of baby snailets, they give birth to snails so no eggs. Bought some rams horns and was " gifted" pond snails via plant purchase. They only really come out at night with the rest of the time buried in gravel and I maybe wrong here but I swear I pick up less detritious from hoovering the gravel. I never see many at times then a lot so I quess 50?+, I don't mind as they are my cleanup crew after all. I'm growing on nerites as they are seen and active, move fast too.

Just to circle back, I thought I'd provide a little update.

Here's the tank, now nearly 3 months in.

Stocked with: 12 glowlight tetras, 8 corys (might add a few more - love them!), 3 pearl gourami, one male bristlenose pleco, and 4 amano shrimp. And plenty of pond snails. All appear to be doing well (save for some of the plants - e.g. vallis is rather thin, and much of it didn't survive).

Filter is pimped with quite a bit of biogravel (maybe 1.2kgs).

My Bloody Mary shrimp are breeding in my other tank - I may move the culls across. Must confess I'm still tempted to add 2 or 3 African dwarf frogs. I suspect I'd be unwise to add anything else (or even the ADFs!?!), but if there's scope, do let me know.

Might add a few more plants too.

Thoughts / suggestions welcome.

The tank looks really good!

I wouldn’t add anything else. That’s just my opinion.

Don't add frogs to this tank, get another small tank and get some for that

Frogs and fish shouldn't be kept together for a couple of reasons.
Frogs are almost blind and find their food by smell. By the time they locate it, the fish will have eaten the lot.
Frogs are sensitive to fish medication. If you ever get sick fish, the medication would harm the frogs.