Thoughts on this stocking combination?

Ben2522 · Apr 28, 2020

Hi All. Interested in as many thoughts as possible on this stocking. This would be a gradual build up from where I am now.

55 gallon(240l) Temp 24.5 Degrees C. PH 6.5/6.8, Live plants Stem and moss ball with a java fern., Fine, very small gravel, Betta 2000 Canister filter(turns over the tank 8 times per hour) and spray bar. Tiny sponge filter on the left for a bit of extra aeration and current , Plenty of hiding spots. See image.

Currently has 11 tiger barbs and one tiny Orange platy from a cold water tank it wasn't enjoying. Now loving life with the barbs.

I am trying to create or at least as much as possible a fairly self sustaining set up. not totally, will supplement with food and water changes periodically.

Through research and general interest I am planning on: (interested in everyone's thoughts. Although some will disagree and here's why.
6 YoYo Loaches
4 dalmation short fin mollys, only 1 male. (not planning on keeping the fry, they would be more to give the Tigers some live to eat. Any lucky fry can stay.

Last question is, would this be fully stocked or do you think I could add some Albeno tiger barbs. If so how many?

Thanks

PheonixKingZ · Apr 28, 2020

Good looking tank!

I’m pretty sure YoYo loaches get to large... have you considered getting 6-8 Cory cats?

Ben2522 · Apr 28, 2020

PheonixKingZ said:
Good looking tank!

I’m pretty sure YoYo loaches get to large... have you considered getting 6-8 Cory cats?

Hi, the yo-yo loaches get to about 5 inch. Do you think including the mollies the tank could hold a school of albino tiger barbs and if so how many?

PheonixKingZ · Apr 28, 2020

Ben2522 said:
Hi, the yo-yo loaches get to about 5 inch. Do you think including the mollies the tank could hold a school of albino tiger barbs and if so how many?

I’m not sure Molly’s and barbs are compatible...

Barbs are known to be Fin nippers. You should be able to add a school of albino tiger barbs, in with your regular tiger barbs. I would say around 6-8.

Ben2522 · Apr 28, 2020

PheonixKingZ said:
I’m not sure Molly’s and barbs are compatible...

Barbs are known to be Fin nippers. You should be able to add a school of albino tiger barbs, in with your regular tiger barbs. I would say around 6-8.

Hi, I’m confident in the large school of barbs the short fun mollys would be ok.
So you think 11 tiger barbs, 6 yo-yo loaches, 6albino tiger barbs and 4 mollys would be fully stocked?

Metalhead88 · Apr 28, 2020

The yo yo loaches would be great, along with the barbs.

I'd recommend against mollies for a few reasons.

Tiger barbs are vicious. They are known to terrorize other fish. I think you have a good size tank and school to really compensate for the aggression. You may be ok here. But the other problem is water hardness. These fish come from different hardness and while many fish will be just fine in almost any hardness.... mollies are not one of them. They need hard water.

What is the GH of your water? Based on your pH, I'd assume your water is very similar to mine....which is soft. While pH and GH are different, they do go hand in hand.

I like your setup quite a bit. Some more plants, fish, and a dark background would really complete the tank. Very nice.

What are the dimensions of the tank? It looks bigger than your standard 4ft 55 gallon.

Ben2522 · Apr 28, 2020

Metalhead88 said:
The yo yo loaches would be great, along with the barbs.

I'd recommend against mollies for a few reasons.

Tiger barbs are vicious. They are known to terrorize other fish. I think you have a good size tank and school to really compensate for the aggression. You may be ok here. But the other problem is water hardness. These fish come from different hardness and while many fish will be just fine in almost any hardness.... mollies are not one of them. They need hard water.

What is the GH of your water? Based on your pH, I'd assume your water is very similar to mine....which is soft. While pH and GH are different, they do go hand in hand.

I like your setup quite a bit. Some more plants, fish, and a dark background would really complete the tank. Very nice.

What are the dimensions of the tank? It looks bigger than your standard 4ft 55 gallon.

Hi, thank you very much. Yea I don’t want to take up too much space with many more plants. Will see how the water peramiters go. Thinking about seeding it with substrate grass. What are your thoughts on that? Yea soft water. The mollys here in my LFS are bred in the same water so should be ideal as being born in the same water creates a new ‘natural’ water requirement. Especially over generations of the fish.

It’s a strange one as the tiger barbs in my tank aren’t aggressive in any way. I have a very tiny orange platy, see image attached and they let him school with them . I mean the platy is an absolute hero if I’m honest lol. It was basically slowly dying I’m in a cold water setup so I popped him in here to see if that would help and now he is the king of the tank. Barley an inch long lol. Been together 6 weeks no issues.
Dimensions are 120cmL 40cmW 73cmH. Do you think it’s more than 240l?

Metalhead88 · Apr 28, 2020

What do you mean by seeding it with substrate grass? Like a dwarf hair grass carpet?

As far as the hardness goes I must disagree. At the LFS, fish only live there temporarily. Over time, some fish need their natural environment and it is up to us to give it to them. Mollies need hard water.

Many fish have adapted in the hobby over years, but some fish are more sensitive than others. Rams and discus absolutely need soft water. They will live a very short life without it. Livebearers and some africans need hard water.

The reason your barbs are not so aggressive is because you have a great tank and school size. The tank is not over crowded either.

I'm in the US, so we measure by gallons and inches.... It can very well be a 240L as that equals 66 gallons. That is not a standard tank for us, but it would be a tad bigger than our 55 gallon. So I'd say that adds up.

I know you want to have a self sustaining tank, which is one reason you want mollies, but you still need to feed your fish and do water changes every week no matter what.

I think you should substitute mollies with something else.

Byron · Apr 28, 2020

Ben2522 said:
Yea soft water. The mollys here in my LFS are bred in the same water so should be ideal as being born in the same water creates a new ‘natural’ water requirement. Especially over generations of the fish.

This myth is as false as the nonsense Donald Trump spews out, and it has the same total lack of fact behind it. :no:

Fish do not adapt to water parameters that are substantially different from those in which they evolved over thousands of years. You have soft water, though the GH is not mentioned, but I will assume it is soft. Mollies will not last more than a few months, if even that. Their physiology needs mineral (calcium and magnesium) in the water. Freshwater fish continually assimilate water via osmosis through every cell. The water passes through the bloodstream and makes its way to the kidneys. In fish, kidneys are where the osmoregulation takes place.

Osmoregulation is the technical term for the physiological mechanism fish use to control the amount of salt and water in their bodily fluids. As the name suggests, it's based on osmosis. Water is constantly passing through the cells of freshwater fish by osmosis in an attempt to equate the water inside the fish with the water in the aquarium. Freshwater fish regularly excrete this water through respiration and urination; the average fish will urinate 30% of its body mass every day.

As I was typing, Metalhead88 posted so I can shorten this. As he notes, fish in store tanks are only there a short period of time and temporary conditions are not the same as permanent. Study fish physiology and You will see how complicated this is, and how false many think things work.

Ben2522 · Apr 28, 2020

Byron said:
This myth is as false as the nonsense Donald Trump spews out, and it has the same total lack of fact behind it.

Fish do not adapt to water parameters that are substantially different from those in which they evolved over thousands of years. You have soft water, though the GH is not mentioned, but I will assume it is soft. Mollies will not last more than a few months, if even that. Their physiology needs mineral (calcium and magnesium) in the water. Freshwater fish continually assimilate water via osmosis through every cell. The water passes through the bloodstream and makes its way to the kidneys. In fish, kidneys are where the osmoregulation takes place.

Osmoregulation is the technical term for the physiological mechanism fish use to control the amount of salt and water in their bodily fluids. As the name suggests, it's based on osmosis. Water is constantly passing through the cells of freshwater fish by osmosis in an attempt to equate the water inside the fish with the water in the aquarium. Freshwater fish regularly excrete this water through respiration and urination; the average fish will urinate 30% of its body mass every day.

As I was typing, Metalhead88 posted so I can shorten this. As he notes, fish in store tanks are only there a short period of time and temporary conditions are not the same as permanent. Study fish physiology and You will see how complicated this is, and how false many think things work.

Thanks for the reply. Will take another think on it.

Ben2522 · Apr 28, 2020

@Byron @Metalhead88 ok so sack the mollies off. Any other live bearers that will work in my water? Failing that I would ideally have a centrepiece larger fish or 2 Any suggestions?

Byron · Apr 28, 2020

Ben2522 said:
@Byron @Metalhead88 ok so sack the mollies off. Any other live bearers that will work in my water? Failing that I would ideally have a centrepiece larger fish or 2 Any suggestions?

No livebearers. All of them must have moderately hard or harder water. However, until you give us the actual GH, we are assuming things. A GH of 12 dGH to some is soft, but that is moderately hard; and we have had threads here where the water was said by the city to be hard and it turned out to be soft to very soft. Terms vary, but numbers are exact.

Still leaving aside the GH for the moment...finding centerpiece fish is going to be very difficult as you have Tiger Barbs. Any sedate fish, which is what most have in mind by larger centerpiece fish, will be nipped to death. Building around the Tiger Barbs, groups of other barbs and/or danios, or some of the larger and more active tetras, could work. Substrate fish like cories and loaches tend to be left alone by TB.

Just remembered the loaches, that is an option here. A group of five or six. The Yo Yo Loach was mentioned (Botia almorhae), but they need a lot more chunks of wood. Each loach needs to select its "home," as they establish their hierarchy, and loaches are highly social fish in this regard. But there is an hierarchy and they enforce it. Five is the minimum number to hopefully guarantee a good social structure will develop. [You haven't suggested it, but as I mentioned cories above, you cannot combine loaches and cories. But the loaches will fill the substrate level nicely.]

Ben2522 · Apr 28, 2020

Byron said:
No livebearers. All of them must have moderately hard or harder water. However, until you give us the actual GH, we are assuming things. A GH of 12 dGH to some is soft, but that is moderately hard; and we have had threads here where the water was said by the city to be hard and it turned out to be soft to very soft. Terms vary, but numbers are exact.

Still leaving aside the GH for the moment...finding centerpiece fish is going to be very difficult as you have Tiger Barbs. Any sedate fish, which is what most have in mind by larger centerpiece fish, will be nipped to death. Building around the Tiger Barbs, groups of other barbs and/or danios, or some of the larger and more active tetras, could work. Substrate fish like cories tend to be left alone by TB.

Hi, the GH as of right now is about 5-6. Thoughts on that?

Byron · Apr 28, 2020

Ben2522 said:
Hi, the GH as of right now is about 5-6. Thoughts on that?

If that is in degrees, it is soft water. If it is in ppm, it would be very soft. I suspect the former. But no livebearers will live long or be healthy in water this soft, whichever, so at least that is cleared up.

Ben2522 · Apr 28, 2020

Byron said:
If that is in degrees, it is soft water. If it is in ppm, it would be very soft. I suspect the former. But no livebearers will live long or be healthy in water this soft, whichever, so at least that is cleared up.

Hi, yes it’s on the test strips so PPM. Ok so that’s cleared it lol. Thanks anyway:

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