Plant help questions

Ben2522 · Apr 20, 2020

Byron said:
Slow down here, and back up.

First, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a low pH, neither your plants nor Tiger Barbs will have pH issues.

Nitrite...are you certain of the test result being 2 ppm? I doubt this is possible, or the barbs would be at the surface gasping if not floating dead.

Algae...do not get a fish to deal with algae. First, you need to identify the algae, which will tell you/us what is causing it. Normal algae especially in new tanks is not a problem as the biological system has not yet established and stabilized. Problem algae has a root cause and only resolving that will deal with it in planted tanks. For the moment, ignore the algae.

GH...I see no mention of the GH in this thread. Do you know the GH of your source (tap) water? With a lowish pH I assume it is going to be low, but let's confirm. No point in having surprises down the road because we didn't check.

Light...I recommended previously to reduce the lighting period each day, and use a timer so it is consistent. Has that been done?

Fertilizer...this was mentioned but I can't see a follow-up that identified what is being used. Can you tell us the fertilizer(s) and how much?

Hi Below in bold:

First, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a low pH, neither your plants nor Tiger Barbs will have pH issues.
Agreed. although I will try and raise it slightly to around 6 with a few pieces of crushed coral in the tank its self. nothing drastic.

Nitrite...are you certain of the test result being 2 ppm? I doubt this is possible, or the barbs would be at the surface gasping if not floating dead.
All fish fine acting normal. See image below. The 2 is what the color came out at and the nitrate 25. Could that be 0.2? Got liquid test kit on order However i didnt think it was possible in this planted tank at this PH?

Algae...do not get a fish to deal with algae. First, you need to identify the algae, which will tell you/us what is causing it. Normal algae especially in new tanks is not a problem as the biological system has not yet established and stabilized. Problem algae has a root cause and only resolving that will deal with it in planted tanks. For the moment, ignore the algae.
Why would the brown algae be forming? To much light, its a LED full spectrum light on for about 10-12 hours per day on a timer. I did ad fertiliser for the plants which worked.

GH...I see no mention of the GH in this thread. Do you know the GH of your source (tap) water? With a lowish pH I assume it is going to be low, but let's confirm. No point in having surprises down the road because we didn't check.
GH is 6<7 <125 on the image below.

Light...I recommended previously to reduce the lighting period each day, and use a timer so it is consistent. Has that been done?
I think the algae was the light, have it on 10-12 hours per day currently and that combined with the fertiliser(below)

Fertilizer...this was mentioned but I can't see a follow-up that identified what is being used. Can you tell us the fertilizer(s) and how much?
Tropica Premium Nutrition - stated dose for Literes. 2ml x10.

Byron · Apr 20, 2020

Ben2522 said:
Agreed. although I will try and raise it slightly to around 6 with a few pieces of crushed coral in the tank its self. nothing drastic.

No, this is not advisable. I guess this is going to take more explaining to get across the risks of doing this. Your source water has a chemistry of its own, and it is natural. The GH, KH and pH factor in. The GH is around 6 or 7 dGH, and the pH on the acidic side. As soon as you begin adding "x" to change the pH you are interfering with the chemistry of the water, and it will become less stable. Now, it can settle down, but every water change is going to be upsetting the chemistry, and this is stressful on fish. If you can work with the water chemistry as it naturally is, it will make water changes simple and safe, and that means healthier fish. Soft water fish species will have no issues here. And the plants will not benefit.

My GH and KH are zero, and the pH is stable in the 4 to 5 to 6 range depending upon the aquarium, as each biological system can be different. In more than ten years of tests, first weekly, then sporadic, the pH in any given aquarium has never fluctuated more than two or three decimal points. That is stability. I select fish suited to very soft and acidic water, and they thrive.

Diatoms (brown algae that easily wipes off) is common in new tanks, anytime during the first few months. Once the system is established, this shouldn't be an issue. I would reduce the light to 8 hours, and use the Tropica. Give it a few weeks. Tweaking can make a big difference but it may take some time to be noticeable, and jumping in with new tweaks can upset everything.

Ben2522 · Apr 20, 2020

Byron said:
No, this is not advisable. I guess this is going to take more explaining to get across the risks of doing this. Your source water has a chemistry of its own, and it is natural. The GH, KH and pH factor in. The GH is around 6 or 7 dGH, and the pH on the acidic side. As soon as you begin adding "x" to change the pH you are interfering with the chemistry of the water, and it will become less stable. Now, it can settle down, but every water change is going to be upsetting the chemistry, and this is stressful on fish. If you can work with the water chemistry as it naturally is, it will make water changes simple and safe, and that means healthier fish. Soft water fish species will have no issues here. And the plants will not benefit.

My GH and KH are zero, and the pH is stable in the 4 to 5 to 6 range depending upon the aquarium, as each biological system can be different. In more than ten years of tests, first weekly, then sporadic, the pH in any given aquarium has never fluctuated more than two or three decimal points. That is stability. I select fish suited to very soft and acidic water, and they thrive.

Diatoms (brown algae that easily wipes off) is common in new tanks, anytime during the first few months. Once the system is established, this shouldn't be an issue. I would reduce the light to 8 hours, and use the Tropica. Give it a few weeks. Tweaking can make a big difference but it may take some time to be noticeable, and jumping in with new tweaks can upset everything.

Hi Ok. And your thoughts on the Nitrite reading I got? 30% Water changes daily for a week until it stabalises?

Byron · Apr 20, 2020

Ben2522 said:
Hi Ok. And your thoughts on the Nitrite reading I got? 30% Water changes daily for a week until it stabalises?

Sorry, forgot nitrite issue. Though I do not know what to suggest...it cannot be as high as 2. I cannot see the chart very well, but it looks like it is in mg/l, which is ppm.

Ben2522 · Apr 20, 2020

Byron said:
Sorry, forgot nitrite issue. Though I do not know what to suggest...it cannot be as high as 2. I cannot see the chart very well, but it looks like it is in mg/l, which is ppm.

Hi yes I think it’s ppm but I was clearly the same colour at 2 and tested multiple times. What could it be? All fish seem fine no off behavior...

Ben2522 · Apr 21, 2020

Hi All again. @Colin_T @JuiceBox52 @Byron 3rd day in a row nitrite and nitrate high. dont 3 35-50% water changes and still the reading below image: There is 0 ammonia now. However the reading below is after a 50% water change. Fish seem fine. With the tap safe I use it provides alo vera so wonder if that is protecting a little? I just don't understand in a 240l tank how this can get so high so quickly? there are only 6 tiger barbs in the tank. surly the Plants should be taking care of this? Although they are visibly growing day to day now. Do any of you have a clue? The tank obviously wasnt cycled as I thought after 6 weeks probably due to the low PH. Advice? surly the nitrate bacteria should catch up and any timescales on this?
Thanks

Byron · Apr 21, 2020

I still cannot fathom the nitrite, so I must think that maybe the test strips have "spoiled." These can become erratic if they get damp, or in warm moist spaces, so maybe that is it.

Ben2522 · Apr 21, 2020

Byron said:
I still cannot fathom the nitrite, so I must think that maybe the test strips have "spoiled." These can become erratic if they get damp, or in warm moist spaces, so maybe that is it.

Hi, they haven’t been spoiled. They run clear on nitrate and nitrite in my tap water.

utahfish · Apr 21, 2020

Ben2522 said:
Hi, they haven’t been spoiled. They run clear on nitrate and nitrite in my tap water.

What kind of water conditioner are you using? Are you using any ammo lock or ammo chips? Both will break down the ammonia to a " non toxic" form but essentially i doing so will starve your biological filter of the bacteria it needs to do.which can lead to excess nitrites and nitrates.
As for your java fern, im guessing with such a low ph that your gh is also pretty low, java ferns get their nutrients from the water column through their leaves as they dont have roots in the substrate and they are a plant that need calcium.
As for your light with LED lights its not so much about watts one needs to be concerned with lumens and PAR and as always no matter bulb 5000K-6500k.
Too many lumens will cause algae too little will cause algae and plants wont grow. Recommended lumens is 20-30 lumens/ liter of water for low light plants like java ferns and java moss and even wisteria. 30-40 for medium and 50plus/liter for high light and red plants.
For substrate plants like carpeting plants its about PAR which measures lights brightness as it travel through water. Higher watts will intensify the light and its ability to reach bottom of tank, recommended PAR is 30 PAR at substrate level for substrate level plants. Thats why as Byron mentioned floating plants are so effective because the light or energy source for growth is right at the surface. Check your lumens make sure your light provides at least 20 lumens/liter and then once one has the correct light figure out how the plants one has best feed. Some plants like java fern are heavy leaf feeders so one needs to provide nutrients through water column. Others like swords and crypts are heavy root feeders so one needs a nutrient rich substrate. Once the light and the nutrients match the plants needs they will have a leg up on algae and if not algae takes advantage of what the plants arent getting.

Ben2522 · Apr 21, 2020

utahfish said:
What kind of water conditioner are you using? Are you using any ammo lock or ammo chips? Both will break down the ammonia to a " non toxic" form but essentially i doing so will starve your biological filter of the bacteria it needs to do.which can lead to excess nitrites and nitrates.
As for your java fern, im guessing with such a low ph that your gh is also pretty low, java ferns get their nutrients from the water column through their leaves as they dont have roots in the substrate and they are a plant that need calcium.
As for your light with LED lights its not so much about watts one needs to be concerned with lumens and PAR and as always no matter bulb 5000K-6500k.
Too many lumens will cause algae too little will cause algae and plants wont grow. Recommended lumens is 20-30 lumens/ liter of water for low light plants like java ferns and java moss and even wisteria. 30-40 for medium and 50plus/liter for high light and red plants.
For substrate plants like carpeting plants its about PAR which measures lights brightness as it travel through water. Higher watts will intensify the light and its ability to reach bottom of tank, recommended PAR is 30 PAR at substrate level for substrate level plants. Thats why as Byron mentioned floating plants are so effective because the light or energy source for growth is right at the surface. Check your lumens make sure your light provides at least 20 lumens/liter and then once one has the correct light figure out how the plants one has best feed. Some plants like java fern are heavy leaf feeders so one needs to provide nutrients through water column. Others like swords and crypts are heavy root feeders so one needs a nutrient rich substrate. Once the light and the nutrients match the plants needs they will have a leg up on algae and if not algae takes advantage of what the plants arent getting.

H the ph is 5.5 so don’t need to worry about ammonia. The nitrate bacteria is doing its job as it’s converting some of the nitrite but my plants should be taking all the ammonium so there shouldn’t be nitrites. No one seems to be able to give me an answer as to why the nitrites are high and even at 2ppm but the fish are being normal. Ammonia is 0 so where could the nitrite be coming from? Bacteria shouldn’t even be growing at my PH

PheonixKingZ · Apr 21, 2020

Ben2522 said:
H the ph is 5.5 so don’t need to worry about ammonia. The nitrate bacteria is doing its job as it’s converting some of the nitrite but my plants should be taking all the ammonium so there shouldn’t be nitrites. No one seems to be able to give me an answer as to why the nitrites are high and even at 2ppm but the fish are being normal. Ammonia is 0 so where could the nitrite be coming from? Bacteria shouldn’t even be growing at my PH

I don’t see why you think pH relates to ammonia. Ammonia is in the tank when you first set it up, then that ammonia is transformed to nitrite, and then the nitrite is transformed to nitrate.

Your nitrate should be under 25ppm at all times.

Ben2522 · Apr 21, 2020

PheonixKingZ said:
I don’t see why you think pH relates to ammonia. Ammonia is in the tank when you first set it up, then that ammonia is transformed to nitrite, and then the nitrite is transformed to nitrate.

Your nitrate should be under 25ppm at all times.

Ammonia under 7 PH gets transformed to ammonium which isn’t toxic to fish. AT 5.5PH ammonia doesn’t exist but is instead Ammonium. The plants should be absorbing the

PheonixKingZ said:
I don’t see why you think pH relates to ammonia. Ammonia is in the tank when you first set it up, then that ammonia is transformed to nitrite, and then the nitrite is transformed to nitrate.

Your nitrate should be under 25ppm at all times.

PH under 7 begins to convert to non-toxic ammonium. My PH of 5.5 means there is no ammonia just ammonium. The plants should be taking the ammonium and there should be no nitrite. Not just this but the bacteria that produce the nitrite should be able to live in such low ph. The PH reading is correct.

PheonixKingZ · Apr 21, 2020

You really can not expect so little of plants, to absorb it in that big of a tank. They physically can’t keep up!

Byron · Apr 21, 2020

PheonixKingZ said:
I don’t see why you think pH relates to ammonia. Ammonia is in the tank when you first set it up, then that ammonia is transformed to nitrite, and then the nitrite is transformed to nitrate.

Your nitrate should be under 25ppm at all times.

Ammonia/ammonium is governed by pH. The more acidic the pH, the more ammonium and not ammonia. Ammonium is basically harmless. Test kits usually test ammonia and ammonium as "ammonia," so knowing the pH is important.

Nitrate should be under 20ppm, and always as low as possible.

PheonixKingZ · Apr 21, 2020

Byron said:
Ammonia/ammonium is governed by pH. The more acidic the pH, the more ammonium and not ammonia. Ammonium is basically harmless. Test kits usually test ammonia and ammonium as "ammonia," so knowing the pH is important.

Nitrate should be under 20ppm, and always as low as possible.

I see I am in the wrong here. Thanks for clearing that up. :fish:

Search

Search

Plant help questions

Ben2522

Fish Fanatic

Byron

Supporting Member

Ben2522

Fish Fanatic

Byron

Supporting Member

Ben2522

Fish Fanatic

Ben2522

Fish Fanatic

Attachments

Byron

Supporting Member

Ben2522

Fish Fanatic

utahfish

Fish Herder

Ben2522

Fish Fanatic

PheonixKingZ

Fish Guru

Ben2522

Fish Fanatic

PheonixKingZ

Fish Guru

Byron

Supporting Member

PheonixKingZ

Fish Guru

Similar threads

Most reactions

Useful Links