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Urgent Help Needed - One dead new fish see below image.

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Ben2522

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Hello all. I am pretty new to the hobby. I set up a small 20l cold water tank had a few fish and all went well. Decided I wanted to delve deeper and go for it: Asking for help as I want to avoid more deaths...

Now on a 240L tropical. I cycled my tank for 4 weeks then after the spikes and settling I added 6 tiger barb yesterday to see how that goes before adding 6 more in 4 more weeks. See image of tank and decor.
Live Plants on the left hand side. " heaters. 300w and a 100w. The filter is a Betta 2000 (540) Using spray bar. PH and ammonia indicator on the left. Temp top left. Plastic plant bottom right, Fine gravel substrate. No grime or uneaten food anywhere.

Tank size: 240L - Lets say 225-230L taking into account the added bits.
pH: Was steady at 7.4 - Did a 15% water change before adding the fish - Dropped to around 6, 6 hours after fish added. (help on that too please) Water changes never did that before.
Tap is about 7.8 normally and was stable for 4 weeks prior to adding fish
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 10 after water change
kH: Dropped to 3 after the water change, never did that before
gH: <4, <70 - Not ideal either after water change
tank temp: 27 - 27.3 Degrees C (about 80.5 F)
API master test kit and indicators on top left

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
See image of dead fish below. The red on the belly happened since yesterday overnight and the other fish don't have this. Have they attacked it? Other fish seem to be swimming ok, and mostly sticking together but sometimes doing their own thing. All eating fine as far as I can tell.

Volume and Frequency of water changes: 15% once a week, Use tap safe

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: - Tap safe and bottled beneficial bacteria

Tank inhabitants: now 5 tiger barb

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): - 2 plants were added with the fish. The one to the right of the wood on the left.

Exposure to chemicals: No known

Digital photo (include if possible):

t.jpg


tiger.jpg
 
Nothing obvious in your parameters. The temp is higher than barbs prefer and I would drop that to around 25C. Unfortunately sometimes when we add new fish they die, being moved is very stressful for them and the first week after adding new fish is the most vulnerable time.

On to the tiger barbs themselves. These are quite aggressive but also quite gregarious. We can't rule out the possibility that it was killed by its tank mates. Bigger groups are recommended to "spread the aggression" but they also expect to be in large groups so being in a small group may add to the stress of being recently moved. If you are able up the group to at least 12 fish. The sooner you do this the better as newcomers will be treated as intruders once an hierarchy is established. I would also suggest more plants, both rooted and floating. Not only will this create an environment closer to that which they "expect", but it also provides more opportunities for fish that are being attacked to get out of line of sight and hide.
 
Barbs are soft water fish and your water parameters sound ideal https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/puntigrus-tetrazona/

I don't keep barbs but I do keep tetras which have similar requirements and my pH is well below 6 (too low for me to measure) and my GH is 0. I can't tell if that is injury or otherwise, or even if it happened before or after death. Others may but it won't help you if I guess without knowing :)
 
It looks very thin. You often get fish from shops like this unless you handpick them (not always possible with shoaling fish) I have a rosy tetra like this atm, doesn't matter what he eats he still looks scrawny. Had him about a month (he is one of twelve) and I have been expecting to lose him but hes hanging on in there. I think some fish are just born "sickly" possibly due to inbreeding.
 
Hi. Ah ok, so much conflicting information. online. The injury was before death. Being at home for the corona I noticed it was acting strangely straight away and moved it. As long as we think its injury rather than disease then no issue there.

Ok I will ty and get 6 more to complete that. Planning on adding 2 clown loaches so want the water on the warmer side. Ready Clown loach like 28 degrees c and ph of 7?

Would adding mollies be too much if the barbs are a group of 11 to lower aggression? More plants...
 
Munroco said:
It looks very thin. You often get fish from shops like this unless you handpick them (not always possible with shoaling fish) I have a rosy tetra like this atm, doesn't matter what he eats he still looks scrawny. Had him about a month (he is one of twelve) and I have been expecting to lose him but hes hanging on in there. I think some fish are just born "sickly" possibly due to inbreeding.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply. Yes got them yesterday. Not been fed much also only about 1.5 inch long so very you I believe. I will be feeding them a little 3 times a day and monitoring.

The key thing I was worried about is disease.

It reads online that they like up to 28 degrees c, PH of 7. Seangee commented also and said they like lower PH and temperature. different articles say different things. Where do you believe? Im not going to chase the PH. I do want clown loaches though so I have read they like PH 7 and temp 28 C?

Appreciate all they help people.
 
Hello and welcome to the forum! :hi:

First off, nice tank!

Secondly, your parameters seem to all be in check. Are there any sharp decor pieces that he could have scratched himself on? Did he look bloated in any way?
 
PheonixKingZ said:
Hello and welcome to the forum! :hi:

First off, nice tank!

Secondly, your parameters seem to all be in check. Are there any sharp decor pieces that he could have scratched himself on? Did he look bloated in any way?
Click to expand...
Hi. Thank you very much. Yea I want to create a nice space for the inhabitants. Ok so parameters good. I will stop worrying about that but keep monitoring. He didn't seem bloated but I guess he could of scratched on something. I guess just wasnt meant to be.... Think Ill drop the temp a degree as advised above.

What are your thoughts on stocking levels. Adding additional plants. Its a good filter over powered for the Litres. 12 tiger barb. 2 clown loaches and 4-6 dalmation mollys. When the loaches get bigger going to upgrade tank.
 
Ben2522 said:
Hi. Thank you very much. Yea I want to create a nice space for the inhabitants. Ok so parameters good. I will stop worrying about that but keep monitoring. He didn't seem bloated but I guess he could of scratched on something. I guess just wasnt meant to be.... Think Ill drop the temp a degree as advised above.

What are your thoughts on stocking levels. Adding additional plants. Its a good filter over powered for the Litres. 12 tiger barb. 2 clown loaches and 4-6 dalmation mollys. When the loaches get bigger going to upgrade tank.
Click to expand...
Here are the requirements for tiger barbs from SF:

Temperature: 20 – 26 °C

pH: 5.0 – 8.0; commercial strains tend to be adaptable, but acidic to neutral conditions are recommended for wild stock.

Hardness: 18 – 357 ppm. Wild fish will do best towards the lower end of this range.


So it seems all your stuff checks out except the temperature. I would drop it down to 25C if I where you.

Clown loaches can get large fast:


Supposedly exceeds 400 mm but reports from its native rivers suggest an average adult size between 200 – 305 mm, borne out by the largest aquarium specimens we know of.

It’s possible that very old female individuals might grow bigger but this is likely to take a long time since growth tends to slow down considerably once the fish reach 150 – 200 mm.

Aquarium SizeTOP ↑
A tank with base measurements of 180 ∗ 60 cm or equivalent is the absolute minimum required to house a group, and young specimens should only be grown on in smaller aquaria if several partial water changes are conducted each week.

It is advised to find a filter which has a water flow between 4-5 times the volume of your aquarium. At a volume of 648 litres, the filter we recommend can be found here. As this is a large aquarium, you may need more than one of these.
Other aquarium filters which have been recommended highly by customers in your area can be found here.
Maintenance
All botiids need a well-structured set-up although the actual choice of décor is more-or-less down to personal taste.

A natural-style arrangement could include a substrate of sand or fine gravel with lots of smooth, water-worn rocks and pebbles plus driftwood roots and branches.

Lighting can be relatively subdued and plants able to grow in such conditions like Microsorum pteropus (Java fern), Taxiphyllum barbieri (‘Java’ moss) or Anubias spp. can be added if you wish. These have an added benefit as they can be attached to pieces of décor in such a way as to provide useful shade.

It would be much easier if I just gave you the link:https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/chromobotia-macracanthus/

Read up on that before you make up your mind. :)
 
Ben2522 said:
12 tiger barb. 2 clown loaches and 4-6 dalmation mollys. When the loaches get bigger going to upgrade tank.
Click to expand...
Clown loaches need a tank with a footprint of at least 180 x 60 cm, if you can manage a tank that size. They also need to be in a group at they are very social fish. Adding more once you have your bigger tank is not a good idea; they all need to be put in the tank at the same time.
If a tank this size is not possible, there are other loaches which would be OK.

Mollies are not an option with your water parameters, I'm afraid. They are hard water fish which must have a hardness above 250 ppm (15 dH) In soft water they will suffer and become more prone to illness.

But there are plenty of soft water fish to choose from :)
 
PheonixKingZ said:
Here are the requirements for tiger barbs from SF:

Temperature: 20 – 26 °C

pH: 5.0 – 8.0; commercial strains tend to be adaptable, but acidic to neutral conditions are recommended for wild stock.

Hardness: 18 – 357 ppm. Wild fish will do best towards the lower end of this range.


So it seems all your stuff checks out except the temperature. I would drop it down to 25C if I where you.

Clown loaches can get large fast:


Supposedly exceeds 400 mm but reports from its native rivers suggest an average adult size between 200 – 305 mm, borne out by the largest aquarium specimens we know of.

It’s possible that very old female individuals might grow bigger but this is likely to take a long time since growth tends to slow down considerably once the fish reach 150 – 200 mm.

Aquarium SizeTOP ↑
A tank with base measurements of 180 ∗ 60 cm or equivalent is the absolute minimum required to house a group, and young specimens should only be grown on in smaller aquaria if several partial water changes are conducted each week.

It is advised to find a filter which has a water flow between 4-5 times the volume of your aquarium. At a volume of 648 litres, the filter we recommend can be found here. As this is a large aquarium, you may need more than one of these.
Other aquarium filters which have been recommended highly by customers in your area can be found here.
Maintenance
All botiids need a well-structured set-up although the actual choice of décor is more-or-less down to personal taste.

A natural-style arrangement could include a substrate of sand or fine gravel with lots of smooth, water-worn rocks and pebbles plus driftwood roots and branches.

Lighting can be relatively subdued and plants able to grow in such conditions like Microsorum pteropus (Java fern), Taxiphyllum barbieri (‘Java’ moss) or Anubias spp. can be added if you wish. These have an added benefit as they can be attached to pieces of décor in such a way as to provide useful shade.

It would be much easier if I just gave you the link:https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/chromobotia-macracanthus/

Read up on that before you make up your mind. :)
Click to expand...
Thanks for this. Appreciate your help.
 
essjay said:
Clown loaches need a tank with a footprint of at least 180 x 60 cm, if you can manage a tank that size. They also need to be in a group at they are very social fish. Adding more once you have your bigger tank is not a good idea; they all need to be put in the tank at the same time.
If a tank this size is not possible, there are other loaches which would be OK.

Mollies are not an option with your water parameters, I'm afraid. They are hard water fish which must have a hardness above 250 ppm (15 dH) In soft water they will suffer and become more prone to illness.

But there are plenty of soft water fish to choose from :)
Click to expand...
Thanks will keep that in mind. Appreciate your help.
 
I agree with what essjay, munroco and seangee have posted, and the data from PheonixKing.

The Tiger Barbs need a group of at least 12 (you have the space for a larger group, up to you) and they should be added together, so with five now you need to acquire 7+ ASAP. This really does make a difference to this species. Just keep in mind though, that with this species, which has a tendency to nip fins on slower less active more sedate fish, you are limiting your tankmate options. Cichlids and gouramis are out. That still leaves other cyprinids like barbs and danios, and some of the loaches, and active species of tetra.

To the loaches...this is a highly social fish (all loach species are) and a group of at least five is minimum, preferably one or two more. You have space for many of the botine species, there are several that are relatively peaceful. The clown loach though is not going to work here, the tank is way too small. I know the fish in stores seem "small" but they are juvenile, not mature fish, and as these begin growing they will reach 8 inches (20 cm) within just a few months (assuming they are in a group and healthy) and can then increase to 12 inches (30 cm). They have a strong social order, are quite rambunctious, and certainly not suited to many home aquariums. Botia kubotai, B. striata, and a couple others are suitable here, or one of the "dwarf" species. Loaches need lots of chunks of wood or similar structures, as each loach needs to select his or her "home."

To your question of the pH lowering...pH is part of the GH and KH triangle. The GH and KH will usually remain close to the source water, but pH can lower depending upon the GH and KH, and other factors like CO2. The GH is soft to very soft, and the KH is also low; nothing wrong with this, it is suited to most soft water fish species. But please do not acquire any livebearers (mollies, swordtails, platies, guppies, Endlers) because they must have moderately hard or harder water to function properly. The pH, given the GH and KH, will tend to lower as organics build in the substrate from the fish being fed, no problem there either; most soft water fish like acidic water.

Water changes...they must be more substantial. Once each week, change at least half the tank volume (at one go, not spread out). As the fish load increases, you can increase the volume of the regular weekly W/C to 60-70% which is where it should be in any fish tank. The fish will be healthier, guaranteed.
 
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