I am going to leave this for others with experience of it to comment. I finally got the manufacturer's site, but clicking on the product details brings up a blank page every time.
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Extremely confused- HELP
- Thread starter Guppylover3x
- Start date
I am going to leave this for others with experience of it to comment. I finally got the manufacturer's site, but clicking on the product details brings up a blank page every time.
AbbeysDad
Fish Gatherer
I'm not convinced that pH is the problem. If your tank is cycled (with fish in it) you would most likely not measure any ammonia or nitrites, but I've never seen a tank with zero nitrates (NO3) as you reported. Also, Tetra Safe Start is bacteria in a bottle and wouldn't cause an ammonia spike.
Something's not right.
Something's not right.
OP
OP
I’ve just retested the water. Thank you for pointing out no3 is 10. I didn’t look at it properly in the light. Don’t think the fish appreciated me just waking them up lol.
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OP
OP
Following on from that. The ammonia spikes could be because my plants in the tank needed replacing I’ve got more on the way. Just a thought. I’m pleased to know I can continue to add the safe start in with my water changes.
The only reason this would be caused by pH is if the shop tank had a pH well above 7.6 and your tank's pH is 6.8 or less. Even then, I doubt it is pH, but it could be a contributing factor. But you should find out what the water in the shop tanks is. You need to know their pH and GH as well as your own.
There is either a chemical in your tank water, as mentioned by Byron. Or the fish was recently imported and is suffering from transport stress. Or the fish was chased all over the tank before you bought it. Possibly a combination of these factors.
Most of you have probably read the following link. It is what fish go through to get to the local pet shop.
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/fish-importing-from-the-farm-to-the-home.451553/
If the fish were recently imported and had only been in the shop tank for a day or two, they will have been stressed out due to being caught, bagged, put into different water, etc. If the store doesn't acclimatise new fish when they come in, that makes the problem worse. They might or might not but if they just dumped the guppy back into their tank when you returned it, they might not acclimatise their new shipments of fish.
Then you look at how long the staff member took to catch the particular fish you bought and how long it took to get the fish home.
Did it take a couple of seconds to catch the new guppy or did the staff member chase the fish all over the tank?
If the fish was chased around the tank while it was trying to be caught, that would put more stress on the fish. If it takes more than 30 seconds to catch a fish, tell them not to bother and you will get something else.
If the fish was in the bag for a long time or the water temperature in the bag changed significantly, that would put more stress on the fish.
What season is it there and what is the weather like?
Do you wrap the bag of fish up in a towel or blanket or put it in an esky when taking it home?
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If you are going to buy new fish, find out when the shop gets them in and buy the fish a week after they have come in. Do not buy new fish that have only just come into the shop in the last few days because they need at least a week to recover from the stress involved in getting to the pet shop.
Try to buy fish at least a week after they come in, or buy them on the day before new fish are brought in. Most shops get new fish in each week so ask the shop when they come in and buy your new fish the day before the new stock comes in. This also helps reduce the chance of diseases being introduced into your tank. The fish have a week to settle into the shop tanks and hopefully any diseases will be identified and treated.
If you want a new fish that has only just come in, ask the shop to hold it for a week. Tell them you are going on holiday for a week (no you don't want any holiday food) and you don't want to add anything new before you leave. Come back a week or so later and get the new fish. The shop might even put the fish in their plant tanks for that week, which is even better.
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Find out when the shops do water changes and buy fish before they do them, or wait 3 or 4 days after they have done the water changes. If newly imported fish get a big water change within a few days of coming into the shop, it stresses them out. Then if you buy the fish within 24 hours of them being water changed, you take them home and put them in your tank with slightly different water, the stress is too much and the fish die.
Back in the shops I worked at, we did water changes on Tuesday and new fish came in on Wednesday. In situations like this, buy fish on Saturday, Sunday or Monday.
There is either a chemical in your tank water, as mentioned by Byron. Or the fish was recently imported and is suffering from transport stress. Or the fish was chased all over the tank before you bought it. Possibly a combination of these factors.
Most of you have probably read the following link. It is what fish go through to get to the local pet shop.
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/fish-importing-from-the-farm-to-the-home.451553/
If the fish were recently imported and had only been in the shop tank for a day or two, they will have been stressed out due to being caught, bagged, put into different water, etc. If the store doesn't acclimatise new fish when they come in, that makes the problem worse. They might or might not but if they just dumped the guppy back into their tank when you returned it, they might not acclimatise their new shipments of fish.
Then you look at how long the staff member took to catch the particular fish you bought and how long it took to get the fish home.
Did it take a couple of seconds to catch the new guppy or did the staff member chase the fish all over the tank?
If the fish was chased around the tank while it was trying to be caught, that would put more stress on the fish. If it takes more than 30 seconds to catch a fish, tell them not to bother and you will get something else.
If the fish was in the bag for a long time or the water temperature in the bag changed significantly, that would put more stress on the fish.
What season is it there and what is the weather like?
Do you wrap the bag of fish up in a towel or blanket or put it in an esky when taking it home?
---------------------
If you are going to buy new fish, find out when the shop gets them in and buy the fish a week after they have come in. Do not buy new fish that have only just come into the shop in the last few days because they need at least a week to recover from the stress involved in getting to the pet shop.
Try to buy fish at least a week after they come in, or buy them on the day before new fish are brought in. Most shops get new fish in each week so ask the shop when they come in and buy your new fish the day before the new stock comes in. This also helps reduce the chance of diseases being introduced into your tank. The fish have a week to settle into the shop tanks and hopefully any diseases will be identified and treated.
If you want a new fish that has only just come in, ask the shop to hold it for a week. Tell them you are going on holiday for a week (no you don't want any holiday food) and you don't want to add anything new before you leave. Come back a week or so later and get the new fish. The shop might even put the fish in their plant tanks for that week, which is even better.
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Find out when the shops do water changes and buy fish before they do them, or wait 3 or 4 days after they have done the water changes. If newly imported fish get a big water change within a few days of coming into the shop, it stresses them out. Then if you buy the fish within 24 hours of them being water changed, you take them home and put them in your tank with slightly different water, the stress is too much and the fish die.
Back in the shops I worked at, we did water changes on Tuesday and new fish came in on Wednesday. In situations like this, buy fish on Saturday, Sunday or Monday.
OP
OP
Thank you for your reply Colin. I’ve managed to find a ph buffer from the same company I use to increase the GH at the moment. Another member kindly confirmed what is in the minerals I use at the moment is suitable on a different thread. I can confirm you’re right and the store had a delivery the day before and quite a few tanks were still under quarantine. However the guppies had been in store a week I think. The store colleague did chase him around a bit. I also went to a different store today, I don’t usually buy my fish from this one but it’s closer. I’ve never had a good experience with this shop but I assumed I was unlucky, I always buy from the same company I just usually go to a different location. The others have been in the tank around 4/5 weeks now. I hope there isn’t any sort of chemical in my water. I keep the fish in the bag they provide when transporting home. Asking them to hold fish is a good idea. The company I buy from don’t usually have plant tanks they just sell live plants in packets instead. They always put a dark paper bag over them. I wasn’t aware that they needed wrapping up in a towel/blanket. It’s currently spring up here at the moment the weather is around 15 degrees. I have read your article, it’s a shame what our fish have been through even before they come home with us. Thank you very much for your advice, and all the information it’s appreciated.
OP
OP
Next time I add fish I’ll test their water too before adding them into the tank. It may just mean acclimating the fish for a bit longer. I’m quite out of at the moment, but from what I can see today my fishes are already starting a pecking order now there’s 4 of them. My little one with the nipped tail seems to be getting left alone (fingers crossed) he does his own thing probably because the tanks big enough. Their just pestering between the 3 of them so I’m guessing I’ll have to add more fish at some point at least another 2 but I’m leaving it maybe a few weeks. Hopefully more live plants will help I’ve had to remove quite a few. Thank you again for your help.
Celsius or Fahrenheit?
If the weather is cold the bag of water can get chilled while traveling home. If you wrap the bag in a towel or blanket, it helps keep the water temperature more stabile. You can also put the bag into an esky (cooler without ice) and it will help stabilise the temperature and reduce fluctuations.
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Ask the shop to test their tank water before you get the fish. Tell them you have had a few issues with new fish freaking out and just want to make sure your pH is similar to the shop's pH.
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If you add Activated Carbon or Highly Activated Carbon to the filter, it will help to remove any chemicals that might be in the water. Highly Activated carbon is better than Activated Carbon. And Activated Carbon is better than plain old normal Carbon.
Replace the carbon every 2 weeks.
You can also prefilter your tap water with carbon before adding it to the tank. You fill a container with tap water and add a dechlorinator. Aerate the solution for 30 minutes or so and then add a carbon filter. Leave the carbon filter running in the bucket of water for 24-48 hours and then use that water to do water changes.
OP
OP
Sorry for not clarifying it’s 15 degrees Celcius. I’ll definitely bare this in mind in the future. They do advice customers to acclimate fish so hopefully they practice what they preach. It’s probably safer to check PH next time just in case I agree. It could have even been a GH difference since the water quality in the area is soft and I’m making my water stronger. Nothing was pointed out by the colleague when he tested it. All I got back was “perfect”. I have had a look and found activated carbon available that’s already in a mesh bag. I’m worried I may not be able to fit both this and my current filter media inside my filter. It’s currenrly a sponge that I have in. What would you advice? Thank you for your help.
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Fish can go from soft water to hard water without any many issues. They absorb a lot of minerals into their body rapidly and it can affect them but it takes a few weeks before they have problems from it, and it doesn't normally cause them to freak out and sink to the bottom.
Moving fish from hard water to soft water causes the fish to lose minerals rapidly from their body (over a couple of hours), but again they don't normally freak out and sink to the bottom.
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Rinse the bag of carbon out under tap water to remove any fine black dust. then put the bag in the tank somewhere near some flowing/ moving water. The filter outlet works well. You only need water to pass through or over the carbon so it can be anywhere in the tank or filter, as long as there is water moving over/ through it.
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When shops test your water, ask them what the results are in numbers, and write the results down (in numbers) when they do the tests. And ask them what the results are in. eg: ppm, dGH or something else. Ammonia, nitrite & nitrate are measured in ppm. pH is just a number like 7.6. GH can be measured in ppm, dGH or something else.
Moving fish from hard water to soft water causes the fish to lose minerals rapidly from their body (over a couple of hours), but again they don't normally freak out and sink to the bottom.
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Rinse the bag of carbon out under tap water to remove any fine black dust. then put the bag in the tank somewhere near some flowing/ moving water. The filter outlet works well. You only need water to pass through or over the carbon so it can be anywhere in the tank or filter, as long as there is water moving over/ through it.
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When shops test your water, ask them what the results are in numbers, and write the results down (in numbers) when they do the tests. And ask them what the results are in. eg: ppm, dGH or something else. Ammonia, nitrite & nitrate are measured in ppm. pH is just a number like 7.6. GH can be measured in ppm, dGH or something else.
OP
OP
The only way I could add carbon in is if I remove my current filter media. There would be no way of attaching carbon to the end it wouldn’t attach unless I used a rubber band and even then he may not work and could block to supply. Although this seems like a really good idea in case there are chemicals in my tank I need to remove them ASAP. I have attached a picture of my filter and media below. Unfortunately there’s not much space inside and like most filters they design it so there’s only room for the media designed for the filter. Alternatively, I am not sure how big the carbon mesh bags will be but the biomax for my old tank came in a size that will fit the current filter and I could move the beads over. I could try cut the current sponge and hope I could put a vey small piece of this in with the carbon. I also didn’t know guppies could face problems moving from soft water to hard I thought this would always be beneficial because that’s the water they do best in. My LFS use the tetra 5 in 1 tetra test strips so it tests everything’s in numbers similar to the 6 in in 1 I use. They also use api ammonia test strips which I’ve never had a good experience with and found they weren’t very accurate. Thank you for your excellent advice.
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Buy a corner box filter from the pet shop and put a layer of marbles in the bottom, then fill it with carbon. Attach some airline (from the air pump) to the box filter and put the box filter in the tank.
OP
OP
I have edited my last post apologies, I have found an alternative way of how I could add a bit of both my current media and the carbon in. I’m not sure if this would work it would mean being a bit more creative I think. Alternatively another option - have a spare filter that came with the tank, I could consider setting this up and putting it in with the tank also as a very last resort. However this would take up even more room in the tank and it’s 10g. The carbon I intend to add to the tank is attached below. Quataity can be chosen from 1 bag up to 16 (8kg) Thanks for your help.
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Does anyone have any idea if this would affect my KH/GH levels too? It’s from the same company I already use but I think it may raise other peramters too high and I’m already adding salt for them. I may have to go for the previous buffer stated from a different company. Since the minerals I already have increase KH/GH I don’t want to risk them increasing further. These minerals “regulate” the ph so if I add buffer that increases it to 7.2 the minerals will assist with regulating it and keeping it to 7.2 from my understanding. I’ve never used the other company but it seems to be very popular and almost sold out. I’ve contacted the seller to see if I can mix the two, they may be unsure though. The alternative buffer is also below. Thanks for all the help everyone.
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It's probably sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Don't waste your time with any powders to buffer the pH. Get some limestone, shells, coral rubble or dead coral skeleton and put it in the tank or filter. Add a small bit and monitor the pH. If it is still not high enough after a week, add a bit more. Keep adding bits until you get the right pH.
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